BB on Peppers

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Shilling put me to sleep with his long winded, rambling questions. snore

BB seemed very coy and careful about answering any Peppers questions. He also played dumb about working out a deal with the agent practically pretending that it was some kind of a surprise question and seemed to stumble searching for the best answer. BB forgets more about this kind of stuff in an afternoon than I learn in a year and he could certainly have given an immediate and direct answer. He was definately playing up the interview, but I have no more of an idea about what he's up to than before.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Frezo said:

Shilling put me to sleep with his long winded, rambling questions. snore

BB seemed very coy and careful about answering any Peppers questions. He also played dumb about working out a deal with the agent practically pretending that it was some kind of a surprise question and seemed to stumble searching for the best answer. BB forgets more about this kind of stuff in an afternoon than I learn in a year and he could certainly have given an immediate and direct answer. He was definately playing up the interview, but I have no more of an idea about what he's up to than before.

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I can see how you thought that about Schilling, but I still though it was pretty cool - and well thought out questions. No surprise, it took two minutes to finish the question. Just not all that often you hear one well known athlete asking questions to another well known sports figure.

When they were talking about that I felt like screaming out, ask him 'well what happened with Tebucky, how did that happen' while BB danced around the answer. And when he brought up Deion Branch, they all missed a perfect opportunity to follow up with a question about Tannenbam and Mangini speaking with Branch.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

spacecrime said:

As a long-time BB listener, that tells me there is ZERO chance of Peppers coming here. If there was the tinest chance, BB would not be talking about it.

OTOH, by not mentioning Taylor at all, it increases the likelihood of a deal getting done.

The OP had it right. You guys don't know your BB pressers.

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Thanks for all your help. You're wonderful at reading BB. I just started rooting for the team last week and I wasn't aware of his personality. Thanks.

I'm not sure if you "know my posts well", so I'll just tell you I'm using sarcasm.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

jmt57 said:

I can see how you thought that about Schilling, but I still though it was pretty cool - and well thought out questions. No surprise, it took two minutes to finish the question. Just not all that often you hear one well known athlete asking questions to another well known sports figure.

When they were talking about that I felt like screaming out, ask him 'well what happened with Tebucky, how did that happen' while BB danced around the answer. And when he brought up Deion Branch, they all missed a perfect opportunity to follow up with a question about Tannenbam and Mangini speaking with Branch.

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The BB/Shilling senario is cool, but for a radio interview he grabbed too much time on topics that were of a secondary interest to the majority of listeners. BB was his typical self with all of his answers except for the agent one that seemed to catch him off guard. It was great to hear his voice and any kind of football talk from him is always welcome. He was pretty high on Galloway. I wish they had spent more time on Bodden and Springs too. Was Fred Taylor even mentioned?

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

slash83 said:

How come Peppers just sign the tender so teams can start talking to the Panthers about a trade, he should open up his big ears and listen to BB and sign the damn thing...

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There are a few downsides to signing the tender:

1. He has to report to mandatory training camps or he will be subject to fines.

2. He can be traded to a club that is not on his short list (I'm not 100% certain about this).

3. After a certain date, he can no longer sign a long term deal with his team without tying up the Franchise tag for many years (something they will be reluctant to do).

4. He can no longer use bad press to pressure the team into giving him a better deal. (Think Asante Samuel)


I think that #1 and #2 are the main considerations in this case.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Grizzafted said:

perhaps you weren't listening to the same interview I just listened to, where Belichick said that he would fit into any system, BB-speak for "you're stupid if you think he can't play OLB."

I think they're trying to make this happen, but he's realistic about how much crap would have to go through for it to work. But I'm pretty sure after that interview, and how much he discussed him, that they are working hard to try and land him.

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fact that BB said so much abt him and so less about taylor means its the opposite , at least according to bb speak in the past. he would hardly speak so much if something was going on.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

It's funny how we try to interpret BB.

He doesn't say anything about a player = he wants him.

He effusively praises a player = he doesn't want him/won't get him.

He mentions the player but denies working on a trade for him = total confusion.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong in their interpretation. I just think it's hilarious how difficult to read the guy is. It's also a benefit to doing business for him.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Warren94 said:

He has played in the 4-3 his entire career. He has NEVER been asked to cover a TE, RB etc. Sacking a qb and coverage are 2 different things. I do have experience in a college system. Just because you are a freakish athlete doesn't mean you have the intellect to play OLB in a 3/4

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Actually, Peppers did cover TEs in Carolina and was pretty good at it (at least at times). DEs in 4-3 do drop into coverage depending on the system. Heck even Richard Seymour has dropped into coverage from time to time with the Pats.

As for stiffness in the hips comments, the guy was pretty good basketball player for NC and although it is different sport, there is a lot more fluidity of hips movement in basketball than playing OLB in the 3-4. Also, you need to cover fast guys over routes in basketball. Again, not the same thing exactly, but much of the skills translate (hence why most of the best TEs are also basketball players like Gates and Gonzales).

As for Peppers' intellect, do you really know he doesn't have the football smarts to play OLB or are you just assuming it since he plays DE? I admit I haven't studied him enough to know either way. But to say he doesn't have the intellect to play the position just because he hasn't played it is just silly.

I don't know if Peppers can adjust to the OLB position, but to say he can't because he hasn't before is just silly. Willie McGinenst never played OLB in a 3-4 before the Pats moved him and it revived his career.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Rob0729 said:

Actually, Peppers did cover TEs in Carolina and was pretty good at it (at least at times). DEs in 4-3 do drop into coverage depending on the system. Heck even Richard Seymour has dropped into coverage from time to time with the Pats.

As for fluidity of his hips comments, the guy was pretty good basketball player for NC and although it is different sport, there is a lot more fluidity of hips movement in basketball than playing OLB in the 3-4. Also, you need to cover fast guys over routes in basketball. Again, not the same thing exactly, but much of the skills translate (hence why most of the best TEs are also basketball players like Gates and Gonzales).

As for Peppers' intellect, do you really know he doesn't have the football smarts to play OLB or are you just assuming it since he plays DE? I admit I haven't studied him enough to know either way. But to say he doesn't have the intellect to play the position just because he hasn't played it is just silly.

I don't know if Peppers can adjust to the OLB position, but to say he can't because he hasn't before is just silly. Willie McGinenst never played OLB in a 3-4 before the Pats moved him and it revived his career.

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I'll have to agree with Belichick on this one. He has been quoted as saying Peppers can play in any system for any team. I think I'm going to follow what Belichick's view of Peppers is rather than some message board poster. Chances of landing Peppers 20% anyway.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Patriot Missile said:

I'll have to agree with Belichick on this one. He has been quoted as saying Peppers can play in any system for any team. I think I'm going to follow what Belichick's view of Peppers is rather than some message board poster. Chances of landing Peppers 20% anyway.

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I'm not even going to lay odds at this point. I don't know if Belichick really wants the guy or just complimentary, but I have seen enough of Peppers to know that he has as good a shot as any DE to convert to the OLB position in the 3-4. Doesn't mean he would actually successfully make the transistion, but he looks to have the skillset.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Patjew said:

It's funny how we try to interpret BB.

He doesn't say anything about a player = he wants him.

He effusively praises a player = he doesn't want him/won't get him.

He mentions the player but denies working on a trade for him = total confusion.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong in their interpretation. I just think it's hilarious how difficult to read the guy is. It's also a benefit to doing business for him.

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Truth. Who among us isn't waiting for BB's book, written long after he retires are you kidding me They couldn't print enough copies to go around.

BB is the true mystique of this franchise imho Nobody will ever figure him out until he spills someday, and for that we can only pray. Can you imagine a BB Tell-All. That would put the newspapers back in business

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Patjew said:

It's funny how we try to interpret BB.

He doesn't say anything about a player = he wants him.

He effusively praises a player = he doesn't want him/won't get him.

He mentions the player but denies working on a trade for him = total confusion.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong in their interpretation. I just think it's hilarious how difficult to read the guy is. It's also a benefit to doing business for him.

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Yea I totally agree. Today BB threw the gauntlet of misdirection and I had no idea what to believe.

The only thing I'm certain about with BB is whether or not his opinion of someone is legit or not. BB gives praise to everyone, so it's not so much what he says about someone, it's more about what he doesn't say. Unfortunately that doesn't apply here.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

solman said:

There are a few downsides to signing the tender:

1. He has to report to mandatory training camps or he will be subject to fines.

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If he makes an agreement with the team that if he signs the tender that they have to try to trade him, they can waive any fines. It isn't manatory for the team to fine a player for missing mandatory sessions.

2. He can be traded to a club that is not on his short list (I'm not 100% certain about this).

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As long as a team is willing to pay the tender and not need a long term deal, this is true.

3. After a certain date, he can no longer sign a long term deal with his team without tying up the Franchise tag for many years (something they will be reluctant to do).

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Not true. If the Panthers were to give him a long term deal after he signed his tender (or a certain date I can't remember), then the Panthers lose the tag for the life of the deal. If they trade him away, they get the franchise tag back next year no matter what the other team does with Peppers.

4. He can no longer use bad press to pressure the team into giving him a better deal. (Think Asante Samuel)

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True, but Peppers wants out. I don't think the Panthers want his nearly $17 million on the books either way. They will be motivated to move him as the draft comes near whether it is the Patriots or not.

I think that #1 and #2 are the main considerations in this case.

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I don't know. I am sure 1 is a non-factor because Peppers wouldn't sign the tender without an agreement of some sort in place to trade him and excuse him from team activities. The team wouldn't want him to attend either since if he got injured they would be unable to trade him (at least potentially and be on the hook for the money).

I also don't think #2 is a factor because I don't think there are any teams willing to obsorb a near $17 million cap hit for a DE/OLB who has made it clear he will only play for one of four teams. It isn't like Cassel who has at least publically refused to go anywhere and ended up getting traded to a team he wants to potentially play for even if he doesn't get a long term deal.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Rob0729 said:

Actually, Peppers did cover TEs in Carolina and was pretty good at it (at least at times). DEs in 4-3 do drop into coverage depending on the system. Heck even Richard Seymour has dropped into coverage from time to time with the Pats.

As for stiffness in the hips comments, the guy was pretty good basketball player for NC and although it is different sport, there is a lot more fluidity of hips movement in basketball than playing OLB in the 3-4. Also, you need to cover fast guys over routes in basketball. Again, not the same thing exactly, but much of the skills translate (hence why most of the best TEs are also basketball players like Gates and Gonzales).

As for Peppers' intellect, do you really know he doesn't have the football smarts to play OLB or are you just assuming it since he plays DE? I admit I haven't studied him enough to know either way. But to say he doesn't have the intellect to play the position just because he hasn't played it is just silly.

I don't know if Peppers can adjust to the OLB position, but to say he can't because he hasn't before is just silly. Willie McGinenst never played OLB in a 3-4 before the Pats moved him and it revived his career.

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If he was'nt one of the best , most sought after, game changing OLB's, then why in hell would you upset your locker room's pay structure by bringing in such a project... Also , when trying to revive one's careeer it's best done on the cheap, not for top dollar. Peppers is a name. If we have learned nothing, names don't always win you title's, see pinstripedy folk down south. I'd rather win with guys driving beer trucks in the off season than superheroes. Tallyforth.

Re: Insight from BB

"But you can't trade a player that's not under contract. That's a simple rule. And I'm sure Carolina hasn't tried to do that."

Well, how can he be so sure that Carolina "hasn't tried to do that" unless he is in touch with the Peppers situation? Is there possibly some reason that he felt compelled to make it understood that Carolina "hasn't tried to do that" with anyone, and that would obviously include the Pats? Is this an error, a ruse, or a well disguised hint tossed to the wolves?

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

alvinnf said:

If he was'nt one of the best , most sought after, game changing OLB's, then why in hell would you upset your locker room's pay structure by bringing in such a project... Also , when trying to revive one's careeer it's best done on the cheap, not for top dollar. Peppers is a name. If we have learned nothing, names don't always win you title's, see pinstripedy folk down south. I'd rather win with guys driving beer trucks in the off season than superheroes. Tallyforth.

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Rosevelt Colvin never played in the 3-4 and he was just a name when the Pats added him. Belichick knew about the guy enough to feel he would make the transition well and at the time he was paid, he was one of the highest paid players on the Pats' roster. So if Belichick thinks he can make the transition and be very successful at it, he will make the trade and convert him to OLB. It isn't like Peppers would set a prescidence on this.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Rob0729 said:

Rosevelt Colvin never played in the 3-4 and he was just a name when the Pats added him. Belichick knew about the guy enough to feel he would make the transition well and at the time he was paid, he was one of the highest paid players on the Pats' roster. So if Belichick thinks he can make the transition and be very successful at it, he will make the trade and convert him to OLB. It isn't like Peppers would set a prescidence on this.

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Your point is well recieved, they are men of different stature, but you have a good point. That team lacked the star power of the current roster, or the looming FA problems, but it's a good point.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

alvinnf said:

So true, tire kicks nothing more, JT is going to be a beast......here........!

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I think actually JT's best days of being a "beast" are behind him.......however, he was beast on the dance floor....almost won!

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

stcjones said:

I think actually JT's best days of being a "beast" are behind him.......however, he was beast on the dance floor....almost won!

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2007 defensive player of the year, in a similar system. My elephantitus has'nt got the best of me yet.

Re: BB on Peppers (Today)

Some of you either never invested in a genuine Belichick to English decoder device or you are just hearing what you want to hear.

You had to listen to the interview in it's entirety to put all his comments in context. First off he was being asked about the Cassel trade and all the compensation/favor rumors surrounding it. He stated pretty clearly that there was never another solid deal on the table, just ideas for one after KC had stepped forward with a solid deal, and he had contacted all the other teams mentioned once Matt signed his tender on the Sunday Bill was in Indianapolis for the combine. They all assured him they had no interest. So after he worked out a deal with Pioli he didn't want to get hung up in a protracted trade deal that hinged on Cassel getting a new deal - those kinds of trades take time to come together and can fall apart quickly. He also didn't want to get bogged down in a 3 way deal that could take time to come together or never materialize. He asked them to try and recall how many of those happen regularly in the NFL... He believes players on one year deals are not worth what a player signed to a long term deal is worth, ergo the #34 represented value to him. He wanted the deal done in time to make other moves that were presenting themselves as opportunities to improve his team. He loves Scott (and Matt) but his only loyalty where football is concerned lies with the NEP!! This deal simply accomplished what he wanted to do at the outset of FA - get value for Matt and free up cap space to sign FA while they were available. He even mentioned that Matt was not signed beyond this year and they simple could not justify giving him an extension just to make him potentially more tradeable down the line. So they did what they could do via the tag, protect themselves, and when the opportunity presented itself to surrender that protection for value they took it.

As for Peppers, Bill said HE has not had any contact with him or his agent. (Obviously he is not speaking for Floyd...). I'm sure Floyd has heard from Peppers agent. Lots of teams FO personnel probably have. But short of signing him to a tender for 2 firsts (which obviously they have no interest in doing for a 1 year player if any player) there is nothing NE or any team could do at this point. The ball is in Peppers court. His agent can approach Carolina and ask them to talk trade with a team who appears interested in signing him absent the 2 firsts in compensation. Carolina is on record saying that has not happened, either. That is what Bill was trying to explain. There is nothing to the rumor. He's always been good on WEEI, and lately he's tried to be even more forthcoming within limits. Apparently people want to misconstrue that too. I don't doubt if Bill could get a player of that talent in here on a prove it or team friendly deal for a 2nd rounder he'd be all over that. He did that for Welker. But I don't think he's working on it where Peppers is concerned and I don't think he believes it's going to be what happens.

The message to Jason Taylor seemed to be I admire you but I'm also OK with the guys I've got and the draft...which translates into holla at me soon if you seriously want to win.

Turns out if Asante had just signed his tag and demanded a trade Bill probably would have accommodated him. But he didn't, did he. And his agent probably didn't uncover anyone willing to sign him to a deal AND offer trade compensation back in 2007 - which is the way you have to play it if you don't sign that tag. Peppers appears to be in the same predicament. No one is beating down his agent's door. Branch on the other hand was able to orchestrate his way out because he was signed and willing to hold out under penalty and NE gave him permission to shop himself and he found takers. And Cassel was able to move on because he signed his tag immediately and Belichick uncovered one team willing to pay a price Bill felt was fair market for a player signed to a one year $14M+ deal without quibbling.

BTW broader the message Bill seemed to be trying to send is you cannot trade an unsigned player. And while teams can agree to talk to suitors brought to them by the player and his agent, they would never sign a player to a tag agreeing that he didn't have to report...because they would then lose all leverage. Players who are traded who did not sign their tag routinely don't sign it until AFTER the deal has been worked out between the two teams for compensation and the agent and the receiving team on his contract... Bill said personally he would never get involved in that kind of situation, although that is essentially what he ended up being on the other end of as the Branch saga unfolded - only we were not the team persuing a player in that instance, just the one facing the reality we had to move on from him for value 'cause he really wasn't gonna show up...