The first day of free agency sucked, unless you're a Jets fan

DaBruinz · Feb 28, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
I wholeheartedly do not agree with this thesis. It was a a superb day for the Patriots. In every way it was fine.

A) The Pats added a RB to the stable to replace Lamont Jordan. The RB corps is deep and talented.
B) The Pats replaced the blocking TE they lost two years ago, freeing their receiving TEs to participate in the passing game.
C) The Pats did suffer a loss in their #3 WR corps. But this draft has many fine WRs, and they can draft one to get younger. They wil sign another vet WR for that starting duty.
D) The Pats received some considerations for an aging OLB leader, better than they did for Wilie McG.
E) The Pats strategy on Defense is revealed. They will continue and get younger and faster, rather than patch with oldsters.

But the best part is what happened elsewhere.

1) The Ravens got considerably weaker, with the loss of Bart Scott, and Leonhard.
2) The Titans got considerably weaker with the loss of Albert Haynesworth.
3) The Jest got considerably weaker with the signing of
Scott, Leonhard and the CB from the Eagles. They burned away the CAP room they had created by firing virtually their whole Offense, Coles, etc. without solving their main problem, no QB.
3) Further we saw Rex's strategy. Become a 2001-2007 poor imitation of the Ravens, All Defense and no Offense. They have neither the line, RBs, QBs, nor WRs to do so. And their Defense is no way shape or form the equal of those LOSING Ravens teams. Hello 1-15. season.
4) None of ther other AFCE teams materially helped themselves, either.

All in all a very good start to FA for the Pats, both Directly, with their pickups, and Indirectly, with their opponents losses.:singing::singing:

I agree with most of what you said. However just a few of things.

1) Jim Leonhard hasn't signed with the Jets.
2) The Colts re-signed Kelvin Hayden and Jeff Saturday. Basically, status quo. But they usually aren't big in free agency
3) I would disagree with you about some of the Jets offense. Jones and Leon Washington are a great duo. Cotchery is a damn fine WR. They also have Chansi Stuckey and Brad Smith. Not to mention Dustin Keller. I would disagree with your characterization of the Jets O-line. They need a RG to replace Moore. And there are several good ones out there.
4) The Titans and Ravens were definitely downgraded with the loss of Haynesworth and Scott respectively. However, Denver definitely got better on offense with the additions of Gaffney, Buckhalter and Arrington. The addition of Dawkins on defense should help solidify their safety position.

Rob0729 · Feb 28, 2009

Som people fail to realize, that even with the additions the Jets made yesterday they are arguably a weaker team than what they had last year talentwise. Yes, they upgraded their defense, but their offense is significantly worse than last year.

I wasn't a big fan of Favre's play last year, but he played better than Clemmens can play. WR was arguably a weakness for them before they cut Coles and now it is even bigger. I don't think Cotchery is a true #1 WR and Coles basically had the same numbers as him last year even with him and Favre having their little tiff early in the season that made Coles invisible on offense.

The Jets had a good day yesterday, but they had to purge a lot of players to be active in free agency. They need to do a lot on offense just to get back to where they were last year. With the lack of free agent options at QB, that will be very difficult. And don't forget they had the 29th ranked pass defense in the league last year, they will need to continue upgrading that secondary.

AzPatsFan · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The first day of free agency sucked, unless your a Jet fan

DaBruinz said:
In the past 3 years, the Pats have had 18 picks beyond from the 4th round on. The cynics love to point to 2007 and say that the Pats suck picking late in the draft but they refuse to acknowledge that the Pats were STUCK with 4 of those 8 picks and that they there was very little movement that year by many teams late in the draft. Do you know how many of those 18 picks have made pro rosters? How about 10. 2 of the players the Pats tried to stash on the practice squad only to have other teams swoop in and steal them.

Mike Richardson, Jonathan Wilhite, Matt Slater, Gostkowski, O'Callaghan, Justin Rogers (for Dallas), LeKevan Smith, Willie Andrews, Kareem Brown, Garrett Mills (For Minnesota).

That looks to be about a 56% success rate. Why don't you look at some other teams and tell me what their success rate has been?

Da Bruinz,

Clint Oldenburg OT, was also taken off the PS, by the Jest.

You haven't added the UDFA "picks" either. They are the equivalent of a theoretical 8th round. Pierre Woods,
Gary Guyton, Vince Redd, BJGE, Ray Ventrone, and Spann.

So add 7 more to the list and bump up the percentage. That makes 17 out of 18, or 94%.

patsox23 · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The first day of free agency sucked, unless your a Jet fan

FYI, the jets already re-signed Brandon Moore, 4 yrs, 10 mill.

Rob0729 · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The first day of free agency sucked, unless your a Jet fan

patsox23 said:
FYI, the jets already re-signed Brandon Moore, 4 yrs, 10 mill.

Word was they were trying to get Chris Kemoeatu, but the negotiations fell apart when they were dealing with the Bart Scott saga and Kemoeatu decided to resign with the Steelers. Moore was their back up plan. So yesterday wasn't all perfect for the Jets.

AzPatsFan · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The first day of free agency sucked, unless your a Jet fan

Rob0729 said:
Word was they were trying to get Chris Kemoeatu, but the negotiations fell apart when they were dealing with the Bart Scott saga and Kemoeatu decided to resign with the Steelers. Moore was their back up plan.

And Bart Scott also nearly screwed them too. He "accepted" in principle, like Kemo, and went back to the Ravens for a match. The Ravens did, and the JEST had to bump him to the final contract numbers, $8 million per, more guaranteed, to end up not losing him like Kemo...

So they ended up paying even more than they had planned to do.

Rob0729 · Feb 28, 2009

Chris Robinson at Yahoo Sports has the Pats, not the Jets in his winners column. He does say the Bart Scott signing was a win-win for both parties, but didn't say they were among the winners of the first day of free agency:

• The New England Patriots. Personnel man Scott Pioli may be gone, but New England’s pair of pickups on Day 1 were absolutely typical of the system: a veteran running back in Fred Taylor who will add leadership and competition to the backfield and a balanced tight end in Chris Baker who likely will factor in huge to the team’s red zone performance (both run blocking and receiving). Cornerback Leigh Bodden might be a relatively cheap addition on the horizon, too.

Day 1: Winners and losers - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

P.S. Robinson is rarely high on the Patriots.

spacecrime · Feb 28, 2009

swheeler23 said:
I really hate that Vrabel is gone.He has been a great player for the Patriots. What did the Pats get? I know free agency just started , be patient. I see the Jets getting better on defense and the Pats getting worse. I hope keeping Cassel works out well. I am sure they know what they are doing. Doesnt mean it will work out the way they want it to.

Boy, good thing you weren't a fan in 2003 when Lawyer Milloy was cut. You would have been one of the maroons predicting an 0-16 season.

Chill out and recognize that Patsfans have been whining and complaining about the Pats moves every year, in spite of the fact that the Pats have been competitive every year since 2001. THe only two years the Pats did not win the division, they lost on tie breakers.

I hate to see Vrabel go, also. I really liked him.

But try to separate that feeling from thinking that BB isn't smarter than the mass of NFL front office people.

You don'e even know what the Pats got for Vrabel. How can you call it a bad trade if you don't even know what the trade was?

And please everyone stop with the "we need vrabel to win" and "he is indispensible" crap. He had one more year here if not traded. Unless you think the Pats were going to suddenly become the Detroit Lions when Vrabes retired or left in FA next year.

JSn · Feb 28, 2009

The Jets moves to build D are based entirely on beating the Pats (and subsequently the Fish... Buffalo is heading toward non-factor-ness again).

If your team is in the same division as Tom, Randy, Wes and the Backfield Brigade, you better have a plan to shut them down. The record-holders for an offensive season live in your division - you can't win by outscoring them. You have to STOP them from scoring.

I think they're making ok moves. The big problem is over-paying for Bart Scott. They've said goodbye to other opportunities for ONE PLAYER.

If our defense is equally improved (statistically), with our coaching and scheming, they'll be easy to beat, as they'll be held to passing by Q2.

Still, I think they're making the KIND of moves they need to.

Box_O_Rocks · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The first day of free agency sucked, unless your a Jet fan

AzPatsFan said:
You haven't added the UDFA "picks" either. They are the equivalent of a theoretical 8th round. Pierre Woods,
Gary Guyton, Vince Redd, BJGE, Ray Ventrone, and Spann.

Tyson DeVree & Matt Gutierrez. Spann was a free agent signing from another club. Not to mention the Practice Squad kids who stuck in 2008 and were re-signed to futures contracts after the season.

swheeler23 · Feb 28, 2009

spacecrime said:
Boy, good thing you weren't a fan in 2003 when Lawyer Milloy was cut. You would have been one of the maroons predicting an 0-16 season.

Chill out and recognize that Patsfans have been whining and complaining about the Pats moves every year, in spite of the fact that the Pats have been competitive every year since 2001. THe only two years the Pats did not win the division, they lost on tie breakers.

I hate to see Vrabel go, also. I really liked him.

But try to separate that feeling from thinking that BB isn't smarter than the mass of NFL front office people.

You don'e even know what the Pats got for Vrabel. How can you call it a bad trade if you don't even know what the trade was?

And please everyone stop with the "we need vrabel to win" and "he is indispensible" crap. He had one more year here if not traded. Unless you think the Pats were going to suddenly become the Detroit Lions when Vrabes retired or left in FA next year.

I think Vrabel had another year in him. wouldnt you feel better if you knew that Vrabel was part of a larger trade? I mean, he just got traded for the , player to be named later, in baseball terms.
As a stand alone trade you think this is good?Just because someone wonders what the Pats are doing does not make it a bad thing.

Deus Irae · Feb 28, 2009

swheeler23 said:
I think Vrabel had another year in him. wouldnt you feel better if you knew that Vrabel was part of a larger trade? I mean, he just got trade for the , player to be named later, in baseball terms.
As a stand alone trade you think this is good?

Have you ever thought of looking on the non-apocalyptic side of anything? I mean, you don't need to go all "half-full" on us, but maybe you could avoid always being the "I bet the drink is poisoned, and there's so little of it, too!" guy.

Throw us a change up every once in a while.

Box_O_Rocks · Feb 28, 2009

swheeler23 said:
I think Vrabel had another year in him. wouldnt you feel better if you knew that Vrabel was part of a larger trade? I mean, he just got trade for the , player to be named later, in baseball terms.
As a stand alone trade you think this is good?

Until the final details are released we don't know. When they are, there will still be a contingent pulling out their rusty fishing knives, so either put yours away and enjoy the ride or find some nice steady team who offers no surprises.

nowayback · Feb 28, 2009

jets? could care less what they do. very good 1st day moves by pats....very useful..that is what is needed for an already very good team with the best qb coming back. Vrabel...one of my fav patriot players...but what it means to me...is something very good is brewing. there is a plan! with BB plans usually work out. all we need now is a veteren lb. and one from draft to start like mayo...but who knows maybe BB thinks crable. woods, guyton or others we already have are ready. a safety, and maybe a corner...although i believe that hobbs, wheatley and wilhite might be enough. cbs are as good as the pass rush.

swheeler23 · Feb 28, 2009

Box_O_Rocks said:
Until the final details are released we don't know. When they are, there will still be a contingent pulling out their rusty fishing knives, so either put yours away and enjoy the ride or find some nice steady team who offers no surprises.

Vrabel is a big hole to fill. He will be missed by me atleast. I can be upset at his trade for a few days. I do not think the Pats are doomed. I just hate
cap dumps.

PatsChamp88 · Feb 28, 2009

Really the Jets really you would sink that low, this thread is trash.

I'm sorry we don't over pay and give up picks for FAs that aren't worth it.

AzPatsFan · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The first day of free agency sucked, unless your a Jet fan

Box_O_Rocks said:
Tyson DeVree & Matt Gutierrez. Spann was a free agent signing from another club. Not to mention the Practice Squad kids who stuck in 2008 and were re-signed to futures contracts after the season.

Right you are! Thanx... I didn't add the recent PS guys, Craig and Robertson, because I wasn' t sure who was an UDFA, and who was another team's cut, nor IR Ruud. But Mark Levoir also looks to be a find, who will contribute over the years.

AzPatsFan · Feb 28, 2009

DaBruinz said:
I agree with most of what you said. However just a few of things.

1) Jim Leonhard hasn't signed with the Jets.
2) The Colts re-signed Kelvin Hayden and Jeff Saturday. Basically, status quo. But they usually aren't big in free agency
3) I would disagree with you about some of the Jets offense. Jones and Leon Washington are a great duo. Cotchery is a damn fine WR. They also have Chansi Stuckey and Brad Smith. Not to mention Dustin Keller. I would disagree with your characterization of the Jets O-line. They need a RG to replace Moore. And there are several good ones out there.
4) The Titans and Ravens were definitely downgraded with the loss of Haynesworth and Scott respectively. However, Denver definitely got better on offense with the additions of Gaffney, Buckhalter and Arrington. The addition of Dawkins on defense should help solidify their safety position.

Leonhard has verbally comitted to Rex, I understand from the Jets board.

They did resign their G, who they cut, just like we did to Yates, for less dough. Yates was a scrub reserve, thier's was a "starter"; that no one else seemed interested in. Washington is good, Jones is a "...TWO-yards-and-cloud-of-dust", type RB. That is why he has been much traveled. He can get you a thousand yards, 2 yards at a time.

Denver's problem was never their Offense. And they haven't done much there, on their Defensive woes.

Garbanza · Feb 28, 2009

Sure, The jets made a splash by signing Scott and Sheppard.....and it looks like the are building that defense intoa formidable one.....but last time i checked you need to score points in the NFL. They have no QB and they don't have a pure #1 WR. They also just lost their best blocking TE. THEY HAVE NO OFFENSE. Color me not worried.

ScottieC · Feb 28, 2009

The title of this thread is embarrassing. Stupid is as stupid does.

"Unless you're a Jets Fan?" Did I miss a Cassel or Warner to Jets story?

Seriously, yesterday "Sucked"?

Don't think much of Bill, do ya?

The first day of free agency sucked, unless you're a Jets fan

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