Yahoo!: Charles Robinson's mailbag blasts some Patriot fans

If you remember this thread...:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=35748

Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports has responded to all the comments about his rankings:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-mailbag052806&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Read and React: Protests from Patriot Nation

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
May 28, 2006



Last offseason, the emails swept in from New England Patriots fans and made some of their most beloved coaches and players sound like spare parts. Romeo Crennel was replaceable. So was Charlie Weis. Ty Law was broken down. Joe Andruzzi was just a guard.

And now Eric Mangini and Willie McGinest are getting the same treatment.
Scores of Patriots fans took umbrage to my statement last week that New England was going to be just a good AFC team next season, and that the defense didn't have the makings of a top-10 unit. And like many of the fans who made light of the losses of Crennel, Weis, Law and Andruzzi, many New England emailers are yawning over the losses of Mangini and McGinest. That's funny considering these are many of the same people that worshipped McGinest a year ago and proclaimed Mangini as the next great defensive coordinator for the Patriots.

It seems to be a typical email reaction from Patriot Nation, which insists the team never gets respect, the players never get their due and Bill Belichick should never, ever, ever, be questioned. Not winning a Super Bowl? Well, many New England emailers insist it's always the fault of injuries, schedule – or poor game management by some guy who just left (in other words, blame Mangini).

So many Patriots fans are once again showing up in the mailbag in a tour de force. Some are taking things rationally. Some aren't. And as usual, it only helps to kick off an interesting mailbag.

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How can you possibly say that the Patriots don't look to have a top-10 D this year? They locked up the best defensive end in the NFL (thank you, Coach B). They have a good crop of young DBs that are steadily improving. Tedy Bruschi running the 'backers (which, as much as I loved Big Willie McGinest, they did draft Jeremy Mincey and they still have Tully Banta-Cain). And Rodney Harrison will likely return early in the season. Oh, and Ty Law is still available and rumored to be looking to play for a champion for another year to ensure a Hall of Fame bid.

Matt
Hartford, Conn.

I'll give you Bruschi – having him for a full season will help. But here are the problems with the rest of your argument: Richard Seymour was on last year's middle-of-the-road defense, so he doesn't count as an addition; the young DBs can't stay healthy; nobody knows if Harrison will be the same player once he returns from what was a devastating injury; and last time I checked, you still hadn't signed Law. Oh, and I'll say it once more: Any fan that brushes off the loss of McGinest has no idea what he brought to that locker room and should be ashamed. And don't give me that stuff about Mincey and Banta-Cain. You can't replace McGinest's on-field or leadership contributions with a rookie sixth-round pick and a bit player.

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In regard to your statement in last week's mailbag that "Of course, there are the perpetually whiny New England Patriots fans:" You're basing an entire fan base on some keyboard warriors? Come on. Most New England fans are well aware of the key losses during the offseason and are more than reasonable in our expectations for the upcoming season. The Patriots will be a very good team. Super Bowl-quality? I'd say not, but they'll be in the thick of the race. I'd lean more toward the Pats being in a mini-rebuilding mode this year, re-tooling the roster and going younger where they're long in the tooth. Since you're lumping Pats fans into one group, I'll do the same: Stop acting like the rest of the jerk media out there and look at things with your eyes open.

Neal Giordano
Apex, N.C.

That's a fair response. I shouldn't indict an entire fan base. But I can say this: More than any other emailers out there, Patriots fans are almost NEVER happy unless you have something glowing to say about the team. Fans forget the absolute lovefest the media had with the Patriots and act like they have never gotten respect and blah, blah, blah. Guess what? Comparing Tom Brady to Joe Montana and calling Belichick a genius qualifies as overwhelming respect. And another thing – New England's keyboard jockeys sure are quick to dismiss guys as "not that important" when they leave the team. You know, the Patriots' braintrust IS capable of making mistakes. And yet, it sounds like many of the people who email are lapping Kool Aid out of Belichick's palm.

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How is this idiot have a job?

This is how I responded to Charles Robinson's column:

"Charles, I think you're going to regret today's column. If ever there was a no-win proposition, this was it.

Instead of being defensive about what you've said about the Patriots, you would have been better advised to be insightful.

What sort of insights am I talking about?

Well, here's one: thanks to the Internet, the main stream media no longer have a monopoly on sports information. Those who participate in fan forums usually know more about their teams than any journalistic prognosticator.

Why? Because they are devoted to a single team, while you have to keep up with 32. And some of them spend as much time on that single team as you do on the entire league. You can't match the depth of their knowledge on that single team.

It's important for you to be right about what you say--it's your job. But it's much more important to a fan to be right--it's his heart and soul. By definition, he cares more than you do.

The fan forums are a remarkable network. Whenever a journalist--ANY journalist--writes about the Patriots, forum members know about it, and usually within moments of publication or posting.

We know every tidbit of information about every team member that has become public, and usually plenty that haven't. We know when someone does well at training camp, or when someone's hamstring tightens. We know when Tom Brady hooks a golf shot. We know how Bill and his wife are doing. We know much much salary cap money is available.

I know you think that this is a "mini-rebuilding" year for the Patriots. You're right that Willie G's departure is a big loss, but there are losses every year--and gains.

I see this as the year of the Patriots' offensive juggernaut. That's just my opinion, of course. But it's better-informed than yours.

Remember that when you write about any team again. There are people reading what you say who know a lot more than you do. So, if I were you, I'd be careful with your generalizations and even more so with your predictions. Poor prognosticating is the quickest way to look foolish--and that reputation comes with superglue.

Also, I would resist the urge to attack an entire fan base and then deny you'd done it and expect to be believed. If you expect to be respected, give respect where it's due."

My guess is that I won't be the only one writing him a letter like this.

He does have some valid points, just not nearly enough. It is true however that some among us dance through life with deeply rose colored glasses and selective memory to boot.

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Quote:
Read and React: Protests from Patriot Nation

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
May 28, 2006

Last offseason, the emails swept in from New England Patriots fans and made some of their most beloved coaches and players sound like spare parts. Romeo Crennel was replaceable. So was Charlie Weis. Ty Law was broken down. Joe Andruzzi was just a guard.

Charles hasn't learned yet that not just here but across the NFL everybody is replaceable. Romeo and Charlie would have fared little better in 2006 given what they had to work with. Ty Law was broken down, and did Joe Andruzzi accomplish something in Cleveland I missed?

And now Eric Mangini and Willie McGinest are getting the same treatment.
Scores of Patriots fans took umbrage to my statement last week that New England was going to be just a good AFC team next season, and that the defense didn't have the makings of a top-10 unit. And like many of the fans who made light of the losses of Crennel, Weis, Law and Andruzzi, many New England emailers are yawning over the losses of Mangini and McGinest. That's funny considering these are many of the same people that worshipped McGinest a year ago and proclaimed Mangini as the next great defensive coordinator for the Patriots.

A year ago Willie was 18 months younger than he'll be starting his 13th season in the NFL. And last year nobody knew what to expect from Colvin. If Vrabel moves back outside as planned, he replaces Willie - and I can live with that. Mangini has the makings of a great DC - just wasn't ready to deal with an injury riddled front seven and secondary in his rookie season - ergo he's not ready for prime time as a HC yet either. Coordinator's will come and go on every team. At least on this one the system remains because it's Belichick's system they all run.

It seems to be a typical email reaction from Patriot Nation, which insists the team never gets respect, the players never get their due and Bill Belichick should never, ever, ever, be questioned. Not winning a Super Bowl? Well, many New England emailers insist it's always the fault of injuries, schedule – or poor game management by some guy who just left (in other words, blame Mangini).

How often have we not won the Superbowl in the last 5 years to do all this so-called insisting? In 2002 it was because a magical team that emerged in 2001 wasn't yet prepared to play with a bullseye on their backs. But they learned how to. Last year it was exactly injuries, schedule and to a lesser extent early on poor game management by some guy who just left. Apparently Charles missed it when Mangini lost his red shirt temporarily just before the defense turned it around.

So many Patriots fans are once again showing up in the mailbag in a tour de force. Some are taking things rationally. Some aren't. And as usual, it only helps to kick off an interesting mailbag.


Quote:
How can you possibly say that the Patriots don't look to have a top-10 D this year? They locked up the best defensive end in the NFL (thank you, Coach B). They have a good crop of young DBs that are steadily improving. Tedy Bruschi running the 'backers (which, as much as I loved Big Willie McGinest, they did draft Jeremy Mincey and they still have Tully Banta-Cain). And Rodney Harrison will likely return early in the season. Oh, and Ty Law is still available and rumored to be looking to play for a champion for another year to ensure a Hall of Fame bid.

Matt
Hartford, Conn.

I'll give you Bruschi – having him for a full season will help. But here are the problems with the rest of your argument: Richard Seymour was on last year's middle-of-the-road defense, so he doesn't count as an addition; the young DBs can't stay healthy; nobody knows if Harrison will be the same player once he returns from what was a devastating injury; and last time I checked, you still hadn't signed Law. Oh, and I'll say it once more: Any fan that brushes off the loss of McGinest has no idea what he brought to that locker room and should be ashamed. And don't give me that stuff about Mincey and Banta-Cain. You can't replace McGinest's on-field or leadership contributions with a rookie sixth-round pick and a bit player.

I agree with Charles that this guy is a little left of delusional. But Seymour was missing from 5 of those middle of the road games, along with Harrison, not to mention Light and Koppen and Dillon playing hurt. But I agree you can't replace Willie's on or off field leadership with the guys he mentioned. I guess he forgot about Colvin re-emerging and Vrabel likely returning to the outside though.



Quote:
In regard to your statement in last week's mailbag that "Of course, there are the perpetually whiny New England Patriots fans:" You're basing an entire fan base on some keyboard warriors? Come on. Most New England fans are well aware of the key losses during the offseason and are more than reasonable in our expectations for the upcoming season. The Patriots will be a very good team. Super Bowl-quality? I'd say not, but they'll be in the thick of the race. I'd lean more toward the Pats being in a mini-rebuilding mode this year, re-tooling the roster and going younger where they're long in the tooth. Since you're lumping Pats fans into one group, I'll do the same: Stop acting like the rest of the jerk media out there and look at things with your eyes open.

Neal Giordano
Apex, N.C.

That's a fair response. I shouldn't indict an entire fan base. But I can say this: More than any other emailers out there, Patriots fans are almost NEVER happy unless you have something glowing to say about the team. Fans forget the absolute lovefest the media had with the Patriots and act like they have never gotten respect and blah, blah, blah. Guess what? Comparing Tom Brady to Joe Montana and calling Belichick a genius qualifies as overwhelming respect. And another thing – New England's keyboard jockeys sure are quick to dismiss guys as "not that important" when they leave the team. You know, the Patriots' braintrust IS capable of making mistakes. And yet, it sounds like many of the people who email are lapping Kool Aid out of Belichick's palm.

Neal is no more representative of the fan base than Matt. The truth lies somewhere inbetween. What ever grudging lovefest the Patriots have/had with the media was hard earned and well deserved. Belichick does make mistakes - we need only look to last years secondary to underscore that. But he's right more often than not, and he is more successful than any other HC in the league at making the most of the talent at his disposal. If believing that is lapping koolaid, so be it. Charles should try some.


How is this idiot have a job?

All it takes in this internet age is a computer, an opinion and proof you can generate hits on a web site. They don't call it yahoo for nothing.

The defending champs now know their QB is still fully capable of choking in the clutch even when he's not facing us. They lost the Bus - who the hell replaces what he brought in Pittsburgh? They lost a SS, their secret weapon WR, and Joey Porter is threatening further embarrassment not to mention a holdout.

Indy lost it's Edge, and a couple of their scant defenders too. Denver has a QB controversey in the offing, just signed a WR with a bad attitude to match his knees and their #3 wants out, and if we hadn't coughed the ball up uncharacteristicly or they hadn't had the 12th man in their pocket they were toast - as they were against Pittsburgh the very next week. Leftwich is still the QB in Jacksonville. SD couldn't make it with Brees and is starting over with a veteran rookie QB. Palmer and Culpepper may or may not start the season and neither may be standing after Pittsburgh if they do. The rest of the AFC is flotsum and jetsum, so how do we land in the middle of the pack? Only an uninformed mediot yahoo would make that call.

All it takes in this internet age is a computer, an opinion and proof you can generate hits on a web site. They don't call it yahoo for nothing.

Look, Chas. Robinson is the least qualified writer in re: to the NFL for the past few seasons. Pity the fool. He know not what he speaks(must have dated someone important's daughter- though looking @ the photo, I doubt it).

pats1 said:

How does this idiot have a job?

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Simple - he makes other team fans feel good about NOT having organizations that make the smart but tough decision NOT to overpay and put sentiment before sound football policy.

Don't slam the guy - everyone wins this way... other teams feel good about poor front office policies and the Patriots continue their dynasty, gathering a few more Lombardi's.

Robinson is right.

A lot of NE fans cry no respect if something negative is written about the Pats. He is also correct about the NE secondary as well. It has barely improved in terms of personnel from last seasons.

Triumph said:

Robinson is right.

A lot of NE fans cry no respect if something negative is written about the Pats. He is also correct about the NE secondary as well. It has barely improved in terms of personnel from last seasons.

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But has definitely improved -- in terms of personnel -- from the 2004 secondary.

The most GLARING error by Robinson, in my opinion, is his statement that the Patriots Young DBs can't stay healthy. Robinson must have missed the boat considering that 4 of the 6 DBs on the IR were all 28+. Only Gay and G. Scott were under 25. Hobbs, Wilson, and Samuel were healthy. Sanders, as a rookie, did what he could, though he wasn't healthy to start the season.

It's all quite simple. Guy needs money. Decides to become sportswriter. Newspaper or internet site (like Yahoo) wants to sell advertisement (either paper advertisement or internet hits for sponsors). In order for sportswriter to keep job and thus make money, he has two options.

OPTION A Work hard for his money. Do good research and write insightful articles full of information

OPTION B Lazily read the headlines and then decide to write the most controversial article that he can think of. His bossess are happy because attention is brought to their publications. And this is how guys like "skip bayless, ron borges, and Charles Robinson (who the h@ll is Robinson -- never heard of him until now) make their money. It's a money making scheme.

In the wide-world of sports, if I want an opinion, I discuss it with my friends and formulate it myself. I don't need some yeahwho to tell me what to think.

Triumph said:

Robinson is right.

A lot of NE fans cry no respect if something negative is written about the Pats. He is also correct about the NE secondary as well. It has barely improved in terms of personnel from last seasons.

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That means you presuppose that Warfield is a non-factor. I don't. That's where we disagree. It is as simple as that. I think that Eric Warfield will fit in kinda like Terrell Buckley. I'd be happy if Law decided to come back, but I think positions other than CB are thiner, particularly LB. If we lost our best 2 CB on the team, we would field a team of Warfield and Gay, with Chad Scott and Poteat in reserve. Warfield and Gay are two guys who have started in the league. If we lost our best 2 LB, Bruschi and Vrabel, our 4 LB would Colvin, Beisel, Claridge, TBC. That's gettin' kind of thin. Same at WR.

Furthermore, IMHO, if we lose Bruschi, Vrabel, Sey, Brady or Branch, we will have our hands full. Those are the guys that I'm feally hoping stay healthy.

boy he really took it up the butt, go eat your laptop moron

You're comfortable with Warfield, Gay, Chad Scott and Poteat? As the man said, "pass the Kool-aid".

I do agree that losing Samuel and Hobbs would be nowhere near as devastating as losing Bruschi, Vrabel, Brady, Seymour or Branch. But the reason is that there is so much top depth at corner. The reason is that Samuel and Hobbs are simply not all that good, certainly not in the same class as the others mentioned.

PATRIOTS-80 said:

That means you presuppose that Warfield is a non-factor. I don't. That's where we disagree. It is as simple as that. I think that Eric Warfield will fit in kinda like Terrell Buckley. I'd be happy if Law decided to come back, but I think positions other than CB are thiner, particularly LB. If we lost our best 2 CB on the team, we would field a team of Warfield and Gay, with Chad Scott and Poteat in reserve. Warfield and Gay are two guys who have started in the league. If we lost our best 2 LB, Bruschi and Vrabel, our 4 LB would Colvin, Beisel, Claridge, TBC. That's gettin' kind of thin. Same at WR.

Furthermore, IMHO, if we lose Bruschi, Vrabel, Sey, Brady or Branch, we will have our hands full. Those are the guys that I'm feally hoping stay healthy.

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Who the hell is Neal Giordano? How lame can you get by trashing your own fanbase?

This ****faced Prisco-wannabe, Robinson, just ranked the Pats 6th in the AFC! No one with an objective perspective on the NFL would say the Pats are a wildcard team. He deserves all the hate mail he gets. Posting his article on here, giving him more attention is all he wants. The more of a brouhaha he makes, the more money he earns, simple as.

re

He made a good point about some fans blindly defending every Patriots decision.

However, he revealed his ignorance when he called the Patriots defense 'mediocre'. If he was knowledgeable about the Patriots at all, he would have known that their defense was a top-4 defense over the last 8 games of the regular season.

.

mgteich said:

You're comfortable with Warfield, Gay, Chad Scott and Poteat?

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I'm fine with the ones you mentioned as depth.

mgteich said:

You're comfortable with Warfield, Gay, Chad Scott and Poteat? As the man said, "pass the Kool-aid".

I do agree that losing Samuel and Hobbs would be nowhere near as devastating as losing Bruschi, Vrabel, Brady, Seymour or Branch. But the reason is that there is so much top depth at corner. The reason is that Samuel and Hobbs are simply not all that good, certainly not in the same class as the others mentioned.

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And how in the gods name do you know Ellis Hobbs isnt all that good? As a rookie, starting he rarely made a small mistake if any. He will be a shut down corner. Samuel improved and actually near the end of the last year, I think he was indeed GOOD.

You know what I'm fine with?

I'm fine with Bill Belichick, our head coach who has builta team that has won three of the last five Super Bowls

I'm not anal retentively fixated on depth at individual positions. I'm not going to run out in the streets screaming "the sky is falling!!!the sky is falling!!!" just because some clowns who have an inflated opinion of THEIR judgements say that "the secondary is very very weak!!!!!!!!"

In fact, after seeing us win our third super bowl with a completely decimated backfield made up of practice squad castoffs and World League refugees, I think it's time to STFU about how terrible things are and sit back and JUST ENJOY watching the team come together.

I expect this team to be greater than the sum of its' parts....once again....and I'm going to enjoy watching the greatest coach in our history put it all together once again...no matter how many Nervous Nellies go wildly beserk and screaming in the streets "BAAAAD!!!!!! Things are really really BAD!!!!".

pats1 said:

But has definitely improved -- in terms of personnel -- from the 2004 secondary.

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Where???

2004 Gay Wilson Harrison Samuel

2006 Hobbs/Gay Wilson Warfield Samuel

Its clearly decreased swapping Warfield for Harrison.

Warfield was the human torch in KC. Why do you think that KC let him walk and they are trying to get Law to take his place? If Warfield is a starting CB this season the Pats are in big trouble. Its going to be ugly. He was probably brought here to play Safety until Harrison can return.

Hobbs is too ****y and green to start IMO. Why are the Pats even in the Law sweepstakes if they dint have mixed emotions about their current line up.

Gay - might - return to 2004 form, but remember that he hasnt had to play without Harrison holding things together. And, I do not expect Harrison on the field anytime soon recovering from a 3 ligament tearing his knee thats not even 12 months old. Can he even be the same player if and when he does return?

Tbucky is a special teams/ backup player at best.

Triumph said:

Hobbs is too ****y and green to start IMO.

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What the...?

Triumph said:

Where???

2004 Gay Wilson Harrison Samuel

2006 Hobbs/Gay Wilson Warfield Samuel

Its clearly decreased swapping Warfield for Harrison.

Warfield was the human torch in KC. Why do you think that KC let him walk and they are trying to get Law to take his place? If Warfield is a starting CB this season the Pats are in big trouble. Its going to be ugly. He was probably brought here to play Safety until Harrison can return.

Hobbs is too ****y and green to start IMO. Why are the Pats even in the Law sweepstakes if they dint have mixed emotions about their current line up.

Gay - might - return to 2004 form, but remember that he hasnt had to play without Harrison holding things together. And, I do not expect Harrison on the field anytime soon recovering from a 3 ligament tearing his knee thats not even 12 months old. Can he even be the same player if and when he does return?

Tbucky is a special teams/ backup player at best.

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Not too into following the Pats in 2005 seeing as Hobbs started for a bunch of games...

Yep, too ****y. That's why he's always saying he need to get better. Darn, what an attitude.

And the Pats are in it for Law b/c they can be. Just b/c they are interested in one of the few high caliber players left on the open market, it doesn't mean their current status is undesireable.