Building the Patriots Big Board: CB and S

[midwestpatsfan]

The final grouping is done. It was a long process, so thank you to all who have stuck with me through this journey. Hopefully there are a few nuggets of useful information in these reports

Building The Patriots Big Board: Cornerbacks and Safeties | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2017 NFL Draft

 

[midwestpatsfan]

It will be interesting to see if Peppers falls into a range closer to where the Patriots pick after he came back with a diluted sample at the combine and will have to enter the NFL drug program.

 

[fightingirish595]

It will be interesting to see if Peppers falls into a range closer to where the Patriots pick after he came back with a diluted sample at the combine and will have to enter the NFL drug program.

I wonder how much water a day causes a dilute sample. i drink 3 liters a day. Thats generally reguarded as a normal and healthy amount. He drank 8-10 bottles, which if they .5 liters, thats 4-5 liters.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I am very intrigued by Gerry. One game he looks like a great future Patriots and another game he looks like a typical future jets loser.

Still like Sutton and awuzie at CB.

 

[captain stone]

Here's a hypothetical (of course) question:

Imagine that you did not trade 32 & 103 for Terry Glenn 2.0; after all, you've had the healthiest and most productive season from your WRs since 2007. Why would you give away your first-rounder for a small diva who is under cost control for only 2 more seasons?

Imagine also that you did not trade 137 for TE Dwayne Allen & 200. You obviously had the James O'Shaunessy trade in your back pocket, so there was no need to acquire an overpaid underachiever from the Indy Clots organization with all of its bad habits.

Imagine also that you did not trade 72 & 96 (& 200, which you no longer have anyway) for 83 & 85.

Imagine also that you did not sign Mike Gillislee to an offer sheet (for only 2 years), and therefore still have 163 at your disposal.

Imagine also that you did not throw away your own 5th-rounder (#175) for one year of the legendary Barkevious Mingo.

Imagine also that you did not throw away your 7th-rounder for the lumbering TE / OT / Whatever Mike Williams, who now sucks at 2 positions.

Imagine therefore that you control the following draft picks:
32
72
96
103
137
163
175
216
239
250

Now imagine that at 32 you selected OT Ryan Ramczyk; if the medicals scare you, then by all means select Dion Dawkins instead of Ramczyk (I would have no problem, at all, should you choose to do so). I would prefer the athletic, long-armed, 4-position, starter-calibre versatility of Dawkins to the possibility that Cam Robinson will be limited athletically to RT and that Forrest Lamp will be limited by his short arms to Guard.

Next imagine that at 72 you selected DE Jordan Willis, merely the Best Player Available Regardless of Position.

Next imagine that you are at 96. You've noticed that 5 out of the last 6 picks have been used for DBs. You don't want to be left out of the DB market, so you decide that you will use this pick on one of the following:
Rasul Douglas
Desmond King
Cordrea Tankersley
Howard Wilson

The question is: Which of these 4 do you choose?

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Here's a hypothetical (of course) question:

Imagine that you did not trade 32 & 103 for Terry Glenn 2.0; after all, you've had the healthiest and most productive season from your WRs since 2004. Why would you give away your first-rounder for a small diva who is under cost control for only 2 more seasons?

Imagine also that you did not trade 137 for TE Dwayne Allen & 200. You obviously had the James O'Shaunessy trade in your back pocket, so there was no need to acquire an overpaid underachiever from the Indy Clots organization with all of its bad habits.

Imagine also that you did not trade 72 & 96 (& 200, which you no longer have anyway) for 83 & 85.

Imagine also that you did not sign Mike Gillislee to an offer sheet (for only 2 years), and therefore still have 163 at your disposal.

Imagine also that you did not throw away your own 5th-rounder (#175) for one year of the legendary Barkevious Mingo.

Imagine also that you did not throw away your 7th-rounder for the lumbering TE / OT / Whatever Mike Williams, who now sucks at 2 positions.

Imagine therefore that you control the following draft picks:
32
72
96
103
137
163
175
216
239
250

Now imagine that at 32 you selected OT Ryan Ramczyk; if the medicals scare you, then by all means select Dion Dawkins instead of Ramczyk (I would have no problem, at all, should you choose to do so). I would prefer the athletic, long-armed, 4-position, starter-calibre versatility of Dawkins to the possibility that Cam Robinson will be limited athletically to RT and that Forrest Lamp will be limited by his short arms to Guard.

Next imagine that at 72 you selected DE Jordan Willis, merely the Best Player Available Regardless of Position.

Next imagine that you are at 96. You've noticed that 5 out of the last 6 picks have been used for DBs. You don't want to be left out of the DB market, so you decide that you will use this pick on one of the following:
Cordrea Tankersley
Rasul Douglas
Howard Wilson
Desmond King

The question is: Which of these 4 do you choose?

Wow, you obviously are not a big fan of the Patriots off season I see.
#32. I like the Cooks addition, so I don't have issue with it, escpecially with who was available. I would have been trying as hard as I could to trade down with the way the board fell.
Willis tested really well, but it didn't translate to the tape, so getting Rivers over him does not bother me at all.
From the list of Corners, I really would have liked to see Wilson as a Patriots.

This team is so stacked that I like that they moved around to get specific players. If all those picks were kept, more than half wouldn't make the team.

 

[captain stone]

Yeah, I wouldn't have minded Wilson (or any of the other 3) at 96. He probably has the most well-rounded CB game of the 4, with enough tackling willingness & ability to set Bill's & Matt's minds at ease. Douglas has the best tackling ability of the 4, but doubts remain of his recovery ability, especially on an island. Tankersley has the most impressive physical ability of the 4, but his tackling, both in his ability and in especially his willingness, leave a lot to be desired. And Desmond King, were he 2-3 inches taller, would likely be the best of the bunch.

And you are correct, I am not a fan of all of the off-season moves (2 of which - the Mingo & Mike Williams trades - occurred during the previous off-season). I strongly disagree, however, that had Bill kept and used all 10 of his picks, more than half would not have made the team (the Opening Night 53 I assume). If he had used those picks the way I would've used them, then 8 of them would've made the Opening Night 53, and the other 2 (the 2 7th-rounders) would've been signed to the PS if they had cleared waivers.

 

[patchick]

Imagine that...

IMO there's an extra element of imagination to post-hoc drafts: Imagine a perfect crystal ball so that you can know exactly which players will be available at later picks.

That way you never have to trade up, you never get caught a step late after a run on a position you're targeting, you manage to take a player like Jordan Willis a round later than he was projected to go yet exactly 1 spot ahead of where somebody else would have drafted him, etc. That's a huge difference from the uncertain realities of draft day, and the reason that a theoretical post-hoc draft with complete information will almost always come out ahead of a real-world draft.

Anyway, to answer your DB question: it all depends on insider information about Howard Wilson's weird pro day.

 

[captain stone]

If Jordan Willis were already taken, then Tarell Basham - as well as Derek Rivers - was still available.

 

[patchick]

If Jordan Willis were already taken, then Tarell Basham was still available.

Maybe, but it's all counter-factual. If the Patriots hadn't made all of the moves they did, the whole draft would have been different.

E.g., let's just say that one move, the Cooks trade, didn't happen. That means the Saints with their many needs don't have an extra high pick, so they decide to move down and pick up some more draft capital. They swap with Tennessee, end up at #18 and take Garett Bolles. Now Denver at #20 takes...Ryan Ramczyk.

Now the Pats are sitting at #32 with no OT or edge rusher as a plausible BPA. Do you sit still and take a take a DB? Trade down? Or just maybe, assuming Reuben Foster still falls, do you entertain the possibility of trading up a bit for him? Green Bay is shopping #29....

Etc., etc. No moves happen in a vacuum.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Maybe, but it's all counter-factual. If the Patriots hadn't made all of the moves they did, the whole draft would have been different.

E.g., let's just say that one move, the Cooks trade, didn't happen. That means the Saints with their many needs don't have an extra high pick, so they decide to move down and pick up some more draft capital. They swap with Tennessee, end up at #18 and take Garett Bolles. Now Denver at #20 takes...Ryan Ramczyk.

Now the Pats are sitting at #32 with no OT or edge rusher as a plausible BPA. Do you sit still and take a take a DB? Trade down? Or just maybe, assuming Reuben Foster still falls, do you entertain the possibility of trading up a bit for him? Green Bay is shopping #29....

Etc., etc. No moves happen in a vacuum.

I think we'd have traded up for Foster. Like we did for Hightower. We would have prob considered him at 11 if NO had signed Butler. IMO