Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game? (Thread Reopened)

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

Yeah, it's not all that cleaver either, it's called having rules and moderators who enforce them... Only members can start threads, and I believe you need a certain minimum number of posts to restrict the trolls. If there are clearcut penalties for breaking the rules and the mods enforce them then there is no competing problem.

Mo, the moderators cannot get into the site when it crashes, just like everyone else. Personally I don't get on a computer while watching the games.

I watch the game and would miss something if I were reading post of others or trying to post myself. If that make me a bad mod, then I'll live with that.

One size does not fit all. Also I can tell you that when an infraction is given, a post deleted, a warning issued, the PM's start flying from the "innocent victims" of the overbearing moderators.

I'm sure that there is workable solution and Ian would welcome, via PM, anyone who can offer something to correct the problem.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

Going on sometime now. Don't mean to be impolite. But its a simple question. I'd like a simple answer.

QB12

No - I found a big problem that was corrected last night. Unfortunately part two of the change over went south because I attempted to do it from the browser instead of at the server level, which caused me to have to have them restore the earlier backup prior to halftime.

But the problem both with last year and up until this year was with the fact there was a table with over 37-million rows if data, which accounted for half of the database size and was bogging things down. It had to do with forum searches, which for now are going to come up empty until I can change the search function over, which requires a modification to two major tables (which I attempted and failed last night - so I'm going to have to shut the server down to change it, otherwise it will continue dumping data into that table). It's amazing - when that table was emptied there was an immediate change, and we made it through the rest of the night without incident. I only wish I had found that sooner, because I would have done it last year.

So to answer your question "NO" I don't forsee any further game day issues.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

lmfao... attack of the "we're better than you's".

In QB12's defense, and as most of the postes in the thread should remember, it's not like this is a new phenomina. Last season, the season before that, etc... all have had similar issues.

So while donations likely do go towards server resources, they don't just magically resolve resource issues. Server admins do, if it's not a resource issue. So just because you've donated, don't start harping like this guy is a shmuck for not donating yet... cause guess what... I haven't yet either.

See my above post - because last night's diagnosis was also the cause of what was wrong when we had issues last year.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

I have a wife, and 18mo old and live in southern california. What I don't have is a 6 figure income, and there are more important things in life to me than tossing 18$ to a site I frequent.

Now, that's to say, I fully intend on donating down the road, but do not have the discretionary funds atm.

In a state with your current economy (and unemployment rate) I understand - so don't worry about it. I don't have a 6-figure income either and believe me I understand how tough it is to pay the bills these days.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

I have a feeling the answer lies not in increasing the server capacity, or clearing another table

The thing you don't realize is the total db size for this forum was 2.4G - that one table accounted for 1.1G of space - which is significant when you're talking about that amount of data being cleared out because it weighs down on each and every query. There was another table that was over 500MB, which was associated with it (again - both were related to the forum search function). So when you clear out over half of the size of the database (which didn't lose any posts - just search keywords and #'s, it makes a huge difference. I know you were on last night, and from the time those were dumped and I turned the board back on, the performance difference was immediate - and in the second half we had 1000+ people refreshing the page with not one DB error. So that was the issue with what was wrong last year (most likely the year before) and so far this year. As I said, I only wish I had found it sooner.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

Chat was having fits yesterday too, I tried to log in and it didn't know me - and that was when there were only two users logged into the Lobby. I was unable to get in until I tried again in the fourth quarter and got there just as pats1 quit for the night.

That chat software sucks. I'm going to have to change it because it's useless.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

I'm guessing a major technology change is what's needed.

E.g., use Media Temple as a hosting company and be lucky enough to be one of the happy customers (they seem to have plenty of each kind).

Or create some kind of chat-like thread outside of the BB software altogether.

No - I don't think you realize how significant last night's discovery and subsequent fix is. I think we're good going forward.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

Oh man, this is too cool. The "Reds" against the "Blues", a social experiment without controls before our very eyes.

I am enjoying the bag of emotions and responses I am going through watching this thread. The feeling of being an outcast by the undertone that I am a cheap jerk for having not donated, coupled with the rebellious Yank within that stubbornly refuses to be browbeaten into a behavior and will refuse payment on principal.

I hope this thing reaches 14 pages before the day is done.

No need, again the donations are for people who want to, so don't feel obligated. I felt bad that people didn't get anything last year for donating, which is why when the ProShop wanted to work with us I came up with that to give people something for helping out. That's all it is - just an option for people who want/can help, not something that "should" be done. The board is still free for those who can't or simply don't want to, it's really not a big deal and I don't want anyone to feel alienated. I'm really disappointed that people are kind of taking it that way.

I've reopened this thread so that people hopefully realize this.

 

[Ian]

Bump 10 chars - Please stay on topic and enough with donating/not donating. This thread is more to let everyone know about the fact that a major problem has been corrected - and hopefully people can be a bit more confident going forward.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ian - While it was disappointing that the site bogged down during the 2 pre-season games, the fact that you found the issue is huge and I thank you for your effort. As I said in my PM to you, due to my going back to school to get some certifications, I have a better appreciation for what you have to go through to find these sorts of problems.. Its not like they stand up and wave a RED FLAG at you to show you there is an issue.

Thank you for putting so much effort into your passion of being a Patriots fan. There is at least one person who greatly appreciates it.

 

[SoCalPatsfan90]

Ian - While it was disappointing that the site bogged down during the 2 pre-season games, the fact that you found the issue is huge and I thank you for your effort. As I said in my PM to you, due to my going back to school to get some certifications, I have a better appreciation for what you have to go through to find these sorts of problems.. Its not like they stand up and wave a RED FLAG at you to show you there is an issue.

Thank you for putting so much effort into your passion of being a Patriots fan. There is at least one person who greatly appreciates it.

Definitely more than one

 

[Ian]

Just a bump so more people see this thread and can continue responding if necessary.

 

[sieglo]

The thing that bugs me a little is that a couple years ago, PatsFans.com had a great, reliable, well-oiled chatroom that worked more or less flawlessly for games. Rather than people constantly hitting "refresh" on the game thread, they just used the chat room. Easy.

Then the chat room service was inexplicably changed. It no longer worked properly. People stopped using it. And we are where we are today.

Seems to me a good, reliable chatroom, plus good marketing of the chatroom to people who are reading the game thread, is what we need to solve the problem.

 

[Ian]

The thing that bugs me a little is that a couple years ago, PatsFans.com had a great, reliable, well-oiled chatroom that worked more or less flawlessly for games. Rather than people constantly hitting "refresh" on the game thread, they just used the chat room. Easy.

Then the chat room service was inexplicably changed. It no longer worked properly. People stopped using it. And we are where we are today.

Seems to me a good, reliable chatroom, plus good marketing of the chatroom to people who are reading the game thread, is what we need to solve the problem.

That will be addressed. The old one that was available was shut down by the service that was providing it, which is why it changed. The new one sucks (to be blunt) and I'll be purchasing a better one and will reinstall it before the season starts. I had said it last year, but I will definitely be doing it this time around.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

The thing you don't realize is the total db size for this forum was 2.4G - that one table accounted for 1.1G of space - which is significant when you're talking about that amount of data being cleared out because it weighs down on each and every query. There was another table that was over 500MB, which was associated with it (again - both were related to the forum search function). So when you clear out over half of the size of the database (which didn't lose any posts - just search keywords and #'s, it makes a huge difference. I know you were on last night, and from the time those were dumped and I turned the board back on, the performance difference was immediate - and in the second half we had 1000+ people refreshing the page with not one DB error. So that was the issue with what was wrong last year (most likely the year before) and so far this year. As I said, I only wish I had found it sooner.

Out of curiosity but where did that second half discussion end up?? I can't find it anywhere and I recall having sporadic problems even after the board came back and there were only a handful of posters at the time...

I'll be the first to admit I know nothing of computers beyond how to turn mine on. But we seem to be the poster child for going AWOL at the most inoppertune times. And it's been that way through a couple of server upgrades that seemingly were made necessary following a concerted effort to up the profile here by linking with another board. Then of course there was the migrations from KFFL and recently ESPN...

I still think the underlying issues relate to tolerance here of anything short of death threats...and a real reluctance to moderate or even infer real consequence on almost any poster attracting a level of membership that just overwhelms the main board. The underutilized practice squad here is almost as big a waste of space as the VIP area...

And as i recall the game threads came into being as a refuge for those who were driven out of chat by the trolls and the juvenile mentality of an increasingly vocal minority of posters frequenting those chats and rendering them useless. Again, the bad guys won out. I guess to quote Bill, it seems no matter what gets upgraded or technically cleaned up it is what it is here.

 

[patchick]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

I still think the underlying issues relate to tolerance here of anything short of death threats...and a real reluctance to moderate or even infer real consequence on almost any poster attracting a level of membership that just overwhelms the main board.

Mo, I really think the load issues and poster-quality issues are different. But beyond that, on behalf of the mods I have to say that you probably don't realize how much junk IS kept out because...it's out. You don't see it. We never post threads saying "guess who I banned today!!" but we're working at it all the time.

 

[BradfordPatsFan]

I have not read through the entire thread so I apologize if this has already been covered...

I subscribe to the UConn scout.com board and those who subscribe have access to the chat room during games (men's basketball mostly but also some football games).

Would it be possible to allow those who donate exclusive access to the chat room or to a separate chat?

Just a thought.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

Mo, I really think the load issues and poster-quality issues are different. But beyond that, on behalf of the mods I have to say that you probably don't realize how much junk IS kept out because...it's out. You don't see it. We never post threads saying "guess who I banned today!!" but we're working at it all the time.

Muchos gracias Senorita! And that Ian guy to, whomever he really is in his mask and cape.

 

[Ian]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

Out of curiosity but where did that second half discussion end up?? I can't find it anywhere and I recall having sporadic problems even after the board came back and there were only a handful of posters at the time...

I attempted to complete the second part of the search changeover late last night at around 12:30am - and stupidly didn't run a backup then because I thought it was going to be simple and didn't expect to have a problem. Instead one of the tables that needs to be modified (the one that holds all the posts) is huge and it timed out when I tried it at the browser level - which corrupted the table and I couldn't repair it. Shame on me for being stupid and not running a back up, but at that late hour I was hoping to get it done without a problem. No such luck. Instead I had them restore the backup we ran just before 8:30 prior from when we dumped that table. So instead I'll it's going to require me to shut the server down for about 10 minutes to have it done at the root level. If I don't do this it will continue dumping data into the two tables I emptied, which months from now could cause a problem.

I'll be the first to admit I know nothing of computers beyond how to turn mine on. But we seem to be the poster child for going AWOL at the most inoppertune times. And it's been that way through a couple of server upgrades that seemingly were made necessary following a concerted effort to up the profile here by linking with another board. Then of course there was the migrations from KFFL and recently ESPN...

This problem will solve that - as I said that one table was more than half the size of the entire database - and was only used for forum searches. It contained over 37,000,000 million rows of unnecessary data and has been the root of our issues because it bogged down EVERY query because they're all tied in together. I discovered it this week while researching our problems after last week's game - and apparently the later versions of vbulletin added a "Full Text Search" which eliminated the need for those tables and made them obsolete. I had scheduled to have it dumped, but when we went down I had support do it then, and I think everyone saw how well we ran from that point on.

I still think the underlying issues relate to tolerance here of anything short of death threats...and a real reluctance to moderate or even infer real consequence on almost any poster attracting a level of membership that just overwhelms the main board. The underutilized practice squad here is almost as big a waste of space as the VIP area...

We've removed quite a few problem posters this week as patchick said, and I have quite a few people in moderation. I've increased the number of posts required to start threads, and am adding a function to remove people from threads if necessary if they hijack them, cause issues, etc. So things are being done and I'd have to say we're light years ahead of last year.

And as i recall the game threads came into being as a refuge for those who were driven out of chat by the trolls and the juvenile mentality of an increasingly vocal minority of posters frequenting those chats and rendering them useless. Again, the bad guys won out. I guess to quote Bill, it seems no matter what gets upgraded or technically cleaned up it is what it is here.

Being able to remove people from game threads will hopefully address that issue, and we'll have much more control than last year. I'll be installing that function over the weekend and will begin testing it - so hopefully that will make life easier this year since we didn't have that function last season.

 

[FalconHeavy]

Re: Is this Board Going to Lock up During Every Game?

This problem will solve that - as I said that one table was more than half the size of the entire database - and was only used for forum searches. It contained over 37,000,000 million rows of unnecessary data and has been the root of our issues. I discovered it this week while researching our problems after last week's game - and apparently the later versions of vbulletin added a "Full Text Search" which eliminated the need for those tables and made them obsolete. I had scheduled to have it dumped, but when we went down I had support do it then, and I think everyone saw how well we ran from that point on.

Whoa Ian, that seems to be an astronomical number !! With that kind of numbers, I'm even surprised that the forum is up Out of curiosity, what db is used underneath ? I will strongly advocate using this in our software