Zolak: Sources Say Brady Overthrowing Edelman was "100% on Edelman"

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Why can't you believe that Zolak might be telling the truth per reliable sources other than Brady? Tom misfired on a few passes, but his Oline was a sieve.

When a future HOF QB is the first at his position in the last 8 years to ever throw 16 incompletions (2 of 18) on passes over 15 yards it certainly raises the stakes beyond "misfired on a few passes." If you consider how many simply awful QB's have played hundreds of games behind simply awful O-Lines during that eight year span, it's pretty frightening to hear TB12 is the worst of the bunch throwing long for one game. Sure, the stat is an outlier, but such extreme outliers are most commonly accompanied by the beginning of trend in the direction of the gross irregularity. IOW, TB12 is probably beginning to lose it.

 

[Tunescribe]

When a future HOF QB is the first at his position in the last 8 years to ever throw 16 incompletions (2 of 18) on passes over 15 yards it certainly raises the stakes beyond "misfired on a few passes." If you consider how many simply awful QB's have played hundreds of games behind simply awful O-Lines during that eight year span, it's pretty frightening to hear TB12 is the worst of the bunch throwing long for one game. Sure, the stat is an outlier, but such extreme outliers are most commonly accompanied by the beginning of trend in the direction of the gross irregularity. IOW, TB12 is probably beginning to lose it.

He still completed over 50 percent of his throws including a perfect 44-yard bomb to Edelman. Remember that longer passes take more time to develop (and longer for the Oline to protect). But this was ONE GAME. Try giving it a little time before jumping to such damning conclusions -- at least six games or so.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

On the 44 yard completion, my recollection is that the ball was underthrown.

Marginally, but Edelman slowed down and shielded the defender from the ball. I was impressed, as that's a much harder play to make as a little guy, but that was still a pretty good throw to make Edelman's play possible.

 

[luuked]

Sure, the stat is an outlier, but such extreme outliers are most commonly accompanied by the beginning of trend in the direction of the gross irregularity. IOW, TB12 is probably beginning to lose it.

You contradict yourself by using terminology that you most probably not fully understand. By definition an outlier can't really be indicative of anything because it is a measurement that is far outside the norm. If a system would very often start to trend towards an outlier, then that measuring point would not be considered an outlier anymore. But there is no basis at all to consider what you are saying, especially after week 1 when the sample size is extremely small.

The obsession of American football fans with flawed, one-sided statistics is so irritating because on the one hand many of them realise what a complex, nuanced game football is but then using the same breath just quote e.g. completion statistics as a way to start an argument about the performance of a QB completely ignoring any context or the environment they were created in.

There is not a single position on a NFL roster that you can judge by using a handful stats. It is the ultimate team game, where the actions of any player affect everyone else who is on the field with him.

 

[supafly]

Since it was such a discussed play to pointing the inefficiencies of Brady on the deep ball, I will pass along what Zolak said on 98.5. He said his sources with the team the overthrow of Edelman deep was "100% on Edelman" and that Edelman ran the wrong route.

And here's an article from KG at the Herald stating the exact opposite, so we really have no way of knowing who is right and what to believe. I hate to think that Brady is ever at fault for anything, but we know there are things that he hasn't done all that well in the past couple of years. Then again, there are things that he's done better than any other QB out there, such as deal with a piss poor receiving corps like last year.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/pressure_s_on_tom_brady

 

[Tunescribe]

And here's an article from KG at the Herald stating the exact opposite, so we really have no way of knowing who is right and what to believe. I hate to think that Brady is ever at fault for anything, but we know there are things that he hasn't done all that well in the past couple of years. Then again, there are things that he's done better than any other QB out there, such as deal with a piss poor receiving corps like last year.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/pressure_s_on_tom_brady

Supa, you're better than that. Who do you REALLY believe is inherently more credible on such matters -- Scott Zolak or Karen Guregian?

 

[Rob0729]

And here's an article from KG at the Herald stating the exact opposite, so we really have no way of knowing who is right and what to believe. I hate to think that Brady is ever at fault for anything, but we know there are things that he hasn't done all that well in the past couple of years. Then again, there are things that he's done better than any other QB out there, such as deal with a piss poor receiving corps like last year.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/pressure_s_on_tom_brady

Again, Zolak said someone who knew what play was called told him that Edelman ran the wrong route. KG is making an opinion that based on watching the play she feels Brady overthrew Edelman.

Zolak's source could be full of crap. But I will trust the assessment of someone who actually knows what play was called over anyone who doesn't. We kill PFF all the time for making judgements for their stats without knowing what the assignments are.

 

[Jackson 2]

67 posts trying to determine who was at fault on one missed play. We are, indeed, a nation of leisure.

 

[PP2]

And here's an article from KG at the Herald stating the exact opposite, so we really have no way of knowing who is right and what to believe. I hate to think that Brady is ever at fault for anything, but we know there are things that he hasn't done all that well in the past couple of years. Then again, there are things that he's done better than any other QB out there, such as deal with a piss poor receiving corps like last year.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/pressure_s_on_tom_brady

I would be more inclined to take the word of Zolak, a former NFL quarterback, over that of someone who has never played a down of football.

 

[Galeb]

Why can't you believe that Zolak might be telling the truth per reliable sources other than Brady? Tom misfired on a few passes, but his Oline was a sieve.

Because it conflicts with his agenda.

 

[Rob0729]

Because it conflicts with his agenda.

Do you really think Zolak would lie about getting a source to confirm that that Edelman ran the wrong route to fit an agenda? The source could be wrong, but I seriously doubt Zolak is making it up.

 

[Galeb]

Do you really think Zolak would lie about getting a source to confirm that that Edelman ran the wrong route to fit an agenda? The source could be wrong, but I seriously doubt Zolak is making it up.

I wasn't talking about Zolak

 

[james87654]

Bedard just tweeted that brady was right and edelman was wrong......my apologies

 

[SVN]

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 27m
Now that the All-22 is FINALLY out, Brady was right & Edelman wrong on that 3rd&9. Single high safety. Stay vertical.

 

[rochrist]

Supa, you're better than that. Who do you REALLY believe is inherently more credible on such matters -- Scott Zolak or Karen Guregian?

I like Zolak pretty much, but it's good to remember that's he's always been something of a shill, even /before/ he became, for all intents and purposes, a Patriots employee. (I don't know if technically he's employed by the Pats or by 98.5 to do the game broadcasts, but it amounts to the same thing in my book.)

 

[luuked]

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 27m
Now that the All-22 is FINALLY out, Brady was right & Edelman wrong on that 3rd&9. Single high safety. Stay vertical.

While Volin that useless duck is still propagating the overthrow narrative.. God I miss Bedard..

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

You contradict yourself by using terminology that you most probably not fully understand. By definition an outlier can't really be indicative of anything because it is a measurement that is far outside the norm. If a system would very often start to trend towards an outlier, then that measuring point would not be considered an outlier anymore. But there is no basis at all to consider what you are saying, especially after week 1 when the sample size is extremely small.

The obsession of American football fans with flawed, one-sided statistics is so irritating because on the one hand many of them realise what a complex, nuanced game football is but then using the same breath just quote e.g. completion statistics as a way to start an argument about the performance of a QB completely ignoring any context or the environment they were created in.

There is not a single position on a NFL roster that you can judge by using a handful stats. It is the ultimate team game, where the actions of any player affect everyone else who is on the field with him.

Mighty kind of you to let me down into ignorance so gently, thank you.

Friend, the stats I noted remain an outlier for now because there have been no further Brady performances to determine if they are the beginning of a trend.

And when the "outlier" is such an extreme example - no other QB in 8 years, covering thousands of games featuring dozens of awful QB's, threw deep as poorly as Brady did Sunday - then it deserves notice, not outright disregard because of its strangeness.

Plus, since Moss left, TB12 has hardly been a great deep passer, and that's fine, not his strong suit. But the trend over the last few years, be it caused by fear of re-injuring his knee or something else, has been that Brady's deep stuff has been pretty inconsistent.

 

[The Brandon Five]

I don't know about Edelman, but Gronk was not in the right spot once earlier in the game because the linebacker got away with a slight hold (a Revis-style quick grab) that slowed him down just enough to disrupt the timing. Maybe that's what happened to Edelman.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Change gears a little here. Most peeps on this board see Edelman and Amendola as the top 2 WRs. Then talk about Brady not being a good deep ball thrower. Would any QB be a deep thrower with short WRs with marginal speed. He can't put it up with arch for them to run to it because its likely the cornerback will catch up to it. Lots of 6' speedy cornerbacks have been drafted last several drafts. Which means they would be likely to win a jump ball. Brady must really be careful throwing deep. Has to be a designed play to help keep it unnoticed by the defense and assist the WR getting open.

Next point, anybody see Alan burns from the jags. How did he go under the radar making all those spectacular catches from poor qb play at Miami. Anyways he got his invite to Jacksonville through RB coach who said hurns reminded him of Kenbrell Thompkins the brother of a miami WR who stood out last preseason for the patriots although not quite as explosive as KT but similar athleticism and separation skills. The Jags believed he and Marquise Lee could make plays and they gave them the opportunity to make plays. Maybe the patriots should do the same now that they have some taller fast athletic playmakers. The patriots have WRs run routes and the slots read defense and where defense will be when they select their route so the slot can try to find the opening and run appropriate route. The patriots could make bigger plays and stretch the defense making KT or Dobson the primary WR on more plays and give them shot to beat the cornerback and get open and make a play on the ball, as well as practice it more often in practice and devote more time to it in practice. Rather than scheming their short slow guys and trying to get them 10-15 catches in practice. The league seems to be catching up to it. They should shift their attention in practice to building a rapport with KT and Dobson and Tyms if they sign him. It will also create more room for the shorter throws. They should commit more to allowing the bigger faster athletic WRs to make plays now that they have them. KT more often than not got the better of Browner and even frustrated him into grabbing several times after the 5 yards. Browner is as physical as it gets so he is ready for any dback. Browner told coaches he would stop grabbing, that he just needed to get a feel for KTs rare lightning moves and cuts. KT should have a breakout like Burns a similar size and athleticism but Kenbrell is more explosive. Hurns was invited for remindind some coaches of KT.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

team will finish 0-16 this year