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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    it's a shame none of the bloviating Bush League distorters weren't man enough to take the bet... today's hearings are blowing their claims out of the water...

    now, the director of the White House Office of Security, James Knodell, admits there was NO White House INVESTIGATION, ever, of the Plame outing... despite the president promising an internal investigation at the time... wow.... this is getting ugly...

    it's all on C-Span currently... such joy....

    anyhow, on to the star witness:

    VIDEO: Valerie Plame Confirms Her Covert Status Prior To Novak Leak »

    This morning, in her testimony under oath before the House Government and Oversight Committee, Valerie Plame Wilson asserted that she was in fact a covert officer at the time that columnist Robert Novak revealed her employment at the CIA. “In the run-up to the war with Iraq, I worked in the Counterproliferation Division of the CIA, still as a covert officer whose affiliation with the CIA was classified,” Plame sad in her opening testimony.

    She added, “While I helped to manage and run secret worldwide operations against this WMD target from CIA headquarters in Washington, I also traveled to foreign countries on secret missions to find vital intelligence.” Watch it:


    The right-wing, aided by the mainstream media, have engaged in an unhalting effort to spread false claims that Plame was not covert, despite the fact that the CIA, Plame’s former colleagues, and Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald have all previously reported that she was covert. The conviction of Scooter Libby only intensified conservatives’ efforts to further propagate their lie:

    Washington Post editorial: “The trial has provided…no evidence that she was, in fact, covert.” [Washingotn Post, 3/7/07]

    Mort Kondracke: “I frankly don’t think since Valerie Plame was not a covert officer that there was a crime here.” [Fox, 3/9/07]

    Sean Hannity: “She did not meet the criteria, in any way, shape, matter or form as a covert agent.” [Fox, 3/6/07]

    Robert Novak: “No evidence that she was a covert agent was ever presented to the jury.” [Fox, 3/6/07]

    Brit Hume: “Whether the woman was covert, Valerie Plame was covert within the meaning of the law, remains at this point, still unclear. Unlikely she was.” [Fox, 3/6/07]

    Victoria Toensing: “Plame was not covert. She worked at CIA headquarters and had not been stationed abroad within five years of the date of Novak’s column.” [Washington Post, 2/18/07]​
    We await their apologies and statements of correction.

    UPDATE: On September 30, 2003, National Review editor Jonah Goldberg claimed, “Wilson’s wife is a desk jockey and much of the Washington ****tail circuit knew that already.” But today Plame rebutted Goldberg, stating, “It was not common knowledge on the Georgetown ****tail circuit that everyone knew where I worked.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  2. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    The look on Republican inquisitors faces when she gave her testimony was priceless. Don't you just love it when these people get a reality check smackdown? I know I do.

    She looks real fine too.
     
  3. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    this Knodell guy looks lost... all i keep thinking of is Chevy Chase from the old SNL:

    "ah... it was my understanding that there WOULD BE NO math"
     
  4. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    :rofl: I love that sketch!!
     
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Careful, Joseph Wilson's going to show up at your house and ask you to take it outside.
     
  6. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Hmmm...nary a peep from the Fox-controlled clowns?

    They await their marching orders. Gotta figure out how to spin this I suppose.
     
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The White House hasn't issued their response yet and there's no way to blame Clinton, they don't know what to say.
     
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    they're waiting for their best witness and mouthpiece, Vicky Toensing, to bloviate and deflect blame to the CIA for not protecting Plame enough... as she's doing with aplomb already...
     
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Don't hold your bated breath, PC, for any apologies.

    1) Plame was as covert as any of the James Bonds: low-levels don't know, but the people who need to know, do;

    2) Wilson was entrusted to stand up for America by supporting the president in a difficult time; unfortunately, he fell on his face due to his self-appointed opinion of his position to speak for the Administration.

    3) What would anyone expect her to say??? Duh. Her husband and she supported *which* party candidates in 2000 and 2004?? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3156166.stm

    Another silly mistake on Bush's part that appointing Wilson as an envoy would be appreciated as a reach-out to the Dems. Hah!! "We spit on your weakness, fool!" say the Dems. Sad to see such vindictiveness by the Dems over this.



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  10. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    That goes for anyone who's undercover. People who need to know do. The admin made it completely public information.

    Wilson was entrusted to gather the facts, which he did. He never spoke for the administration, he spoke against them.

    You're saying she just purjured herself? Everyone's a liar who's not named Bush, huh? Geez, talk about being a hack. The Republicans can do no wrong, Democrats do everything wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah Toensing only drafted the law that was passed, what would she know about it.

    Anyone mention Armitage yet? Since he was the leaker he should be a hot topic here/ Who told Armitage?

    I might watch tonight not sure I can handle Waxman's nose for that long is he wearing a mask so CSPAN is watchable?
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When she was outed she was walking in and out of the front door of the CIA Building every day, if she was working undercover (covert) what the hell was she doing that for, she might as well have painted a sign on her car and one her back saying "I WORK FOR THE CIA" all Mohammad had to do was follow her after she dropped her kids off at day care to know where she worked.

    Get Bush--Hate Bush--Destroy Bush--Get Bush--Hate Bush.

    Joe & His Wife :singing:
     
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    1. Robert Novak actually made it public information, but if someone leaked it to Novak they should know better.

    2. Wilson got a mission from the Administration to get information and then he proceeded to go public with what he says is accurate information, and to use it to criticize Bush. The fact that Wilson supported Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 should not be under-played: Wilson is partisan, and so is Plame.

    3. Did she perjure herself? Depends on what she said before and what she's saying now, while under oath both times. I never said she committed perjury. I said she is acting now as an agent for the Dems to attack Bush. Playing a dangerous game of politics with national security at stake.

    If she feels she was "outed" by Libby or someone else in the Bush admin, I can understand her anger; but she is only one soldier while the success or failure of U.S. policy in Iraq involves many millions of people. In this case her playing politics reflects very poorly on her character as well as the characters of the Dems who are acting like piranhas.


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  14. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What if she was outed for political reasons? Is that also for the greater good of America?
     
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    That's what I cannot see: why in hell would any administration out her for spite??? Just does not make any sense whatsoever. There is no upside to doing that, while there is a big downside.



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  16. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Part of it might have been to make his seem less credible ("Oh, he was sent by his wife?")

    Part of it might have been pure spite.

    Obviously someone leaked the info to Novak for some reason.
     
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yes, I can see the admin being very pissed off at what Joe Wilson said when he returned from Niger, but deliberately outing his wife is too stupid and serves no purpose whatsoever.

    Personally, I think if someone like Libby or Armitage leaked it to Novak they did so thinking that Novak would NEVER go public with it. Again: what useful purpose is there to outing a covert??? No, makes no sense whatsoever. At worst, it was a slip of the tongue.


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  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This crap is too confusing and politically manipulated for my liking. Here's CNN:


    Plame Wilson said she had no role in sending her husband on a CIA fact-finding trip to Niger. Wilson said in a newspaper column that his trip debunked the administration's prewar intelligence that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium from Africa.

    "I did not recommend him. I did not suggest him. There was no nepotism involved. I did not have the authority," she said.

    That conflicts with senior officials at the CIA and State Department, who testified during Libby's trial that Plame Wilson recommended Wilson for the trip.

    Plame Wilson also repeatedly described herself as a covert operative, a term that has multiple meanings. Plame Wilson said she worked undercover and traveled abroad on secret missions for the CIA.

    But the word "covert" also has a legal definition requiring recent foreign service and active efforts to keep someone's identity secret. Critics of Fitzgerald's investigation said Plame Wilson did not meet that definition for several reasons and said that's why nobody was charged with the leak.

    Also, none of the witnesses who testified at Libby's trial said it was clear that Plame Wilson's job was classified.

    However, Fitzgerald said flatly at the courthouse after the verdict that Plame Wilson's job was classified.


    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/16/plame.congress.ap/index.html


    She claims to be covert, which could be true, since "covert" has many legal definitions, and some people have asserted she did not meet the definition as the article mentions. Also, she says she didn't send her hubby, when senior CIA and State Department officials "testified during Libby's trial that Plame Wilson recommended Wilson for the trip". So who's lying? Someone has to be lying, or someone has to be misinformed about who sent who where, and what covert means. Is anyone else as confused as I am?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  19. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    the spin keeps going on and on and on from the right... deny deny deny, distort distort distort...

    anyhow, here we are... perhaps something is "biased" about the CIA director's quote:

    CIA Director Hayden: ‘Wilson Was Covert’ »

    During House hearings today, Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) announced that CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden recently told Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) that there was no doubt Victoria Plame Wilson was covert. Cummings — relaying what Waxman had told him — said that Gen. Hayden expressed clearly and directly, “Ms. Wilson was covert.”

    Cummings also asked Wilson to respond to the specific claim, made by Victoria Toensing and others, that Plame had lost her covert status because she “had not been stationed abroad within five years.” Cummings asked, “During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?” She answered, “Yes I did, congressman.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  20. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Look, if Plame was outed by anything more than a slip of the tonque while she was covert then whoever was responsible should pay. Putting those two pieces together in the manner you have would be graded an "F" in any journalism or law school, however. The first paragraph is is not a quote from the CIA Director. Even if it is true, nobody doubts she was covert for some of her career. The first paragraph doesn't give any time frame. You then put in your a time frame by quoting Plame in her testimony. There is absolutely no evidence from what you wrote that suggests the CIA director agrees with her time frame. You're showing your bias now. You're trying to fool us.
     

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