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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by italia44, Dec 27, 2006.

  1. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    unless you know the Boston Patriots played a "home"

    Game in Birmingham,Alabama.

    RIGHT NEM????????????
  2. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    One of Boston's greatest sportswriter of the time, John Gilhooly, helped me set it up.


    My favorite ghostwriter, however, was John Gilhooly of the Boston Hearst papers, who wrote for the morning paper under the name of Eddie Stanky. In the afternoon paper, under his own byline, he second-guessed the Stanky story he had written in the morning.

    Didn't Eddie Stanky of the White Sox punchout a Boston sportswriter over something he had written????????
  3. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My first Pats game was a night game at Harvard Stadium circa 1961, which would have made me 8. My lasting impressions were that the AFL used a white football for night games, and that it was pretty loose as far as fans wandering down to the sidelines. May have been a preseason game, I can't recall.

    My second game was in 1964 or 65, a playoff game against the Bills in a blizzard at Fenway Park. Cookie Gilchrist and the Bills beat he Pats 24-14. I recall Gilchrist throwing snowballs back up into the stands from his huddle in the end zone, and a big snowball fight between the center field and right field sections.

    The 60's had many memorable players, including Jim Nance, Gino, Babe Parilli, the entire defensive line, Buoniconti, Jim Colclough, Carl Garrett, and a lot of others. Those teams from '64 to '69 were very entertaining. Gil Santos did the radio even then if I recall right.
  4. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Nothing boring about the old Patriots days or reminiscing.
  5. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Wow. Just great stuff, 40yroldPatsfan and NEM. Thank you both for that.

    BTW, NEM, please clarify - - Curt Gowdy called the Pats games in 1987????? For the life of me, I don't recall that.
  6. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'd love to do some research on The Patriots as an idea from Billy Sullivan or others.

    Calling out to NEM or others who might have been aware of the sportwriters or businessmen trying to get a football team here in the fifties.

    I just think it's fascinating how they pulled it off.

    Billy Sullivan was trying to get the Chicago Cardinals to move here, I understand.

    I'm Irish and the idea of the crazy Irishman with a dream and no money just tickles me.

    I'm sure ItalianPat would love to read anything about the original Pats as he loves the tradition.
  7. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    Before we start to cannonize Billy Sullivan, I would remind everyone that he was almost as big a thief as his son was. When the Pats were formed in 1960, it was as a public corporation with a stock offering. A few years later, Sullivan litterally stole the outstanding stock for pennies on the dollar, and became the sole owner. I'm not sure of the details since I was only 15 at the time, but it is a little known story, and an unfortunate one.

    BTW- NEM I played on one of those Atlantic Coast League teams in the fall of 1969. Joe Bellino was the GM. Ross OHanely (a former Pats DB) was the HC. Bob Dee (a former all time Pats DL) and Butch Mahoney were my coaches. Songin played QB for a couple of weeks before he became part of the staff. It was great for me. I was making more money playing football than I was teaching school ($175/wk teaching vs $250/wk playing ball)

    There were a number of form Pats on that team, Ray Ilg & Ed Kountz come immediately to mind. Also on the team was Barry Gallup, who coached at BC and Northeastern. My best friend on that team was Paul Della Villa (RB at BC). We were all set to go on a bus to a concert in NY, when a midseason schedule change forced us to play that weekend. The concert, of course, was later known as Woodstock. ;). Later the bus we would have been on was featured in a layout done by LIFE magazine.

    For those who might not know, The Atlantic Coast League was comprised of teams in Quincy, MA (Pats), Hartford (Bills), Bridgeport (Jets) Long Island (Giants) Pottstown, PA (Eagles), Harrisburgh, PA (Steelers), Richmond, VA (Saints), Roanoake, VA (Redskins). For me it was very exciting since there were a lot of former NFLers in the league and a few that eventually made it. Given that I was a former 200 lb nose tackle who was playing OLB in the league, it was quite a thrill. Also, since I played at a very small school (Tufts), where the big game of the year was against Bowdoin to see who was "the worst team in NE" ;), it was fun to test myself against players who played at the big schools and had NFL experience.

    All the teams had official connections to the NFL club. As part of the merger agreement which came into effect in 1970, clubs had to relieve themselves of any direct financial arrangements with any minor league affiliations. While we played to crowd around 5-10M in Quincy, when we played in PA or VA, there would regularly be 30-40M in the stands. When that financial prop was dismissed the league faded away.

    However in i969 the league was very vibrant. Several players went on to have very good careers in the NFL including Bob Tucker, who went on to have a very good career with the Giants. The $250/week was pretty much the standard pay in the league, though some got a lot more. There was a QB at Pottstown (King Cochran) that had a $100,000 contract, and that was great money for ANYONE in 1969. Cochran eventually played in the WFL

    I'm afraid alot of my memories from that time have faded, especially some of the names of my teammates. I haven't really thought about those days in a long time, until I saw NEM mention it in a post. If anyone knows of some web site with info on those days, I'd appreciate it.



    A lot of great stories, some of which I still remember. :D
  8. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I attended the first game against Denver in 1960. We lost 13 to 10.

    I had a lot of enjoyment in the early years watching a team with no

    high priced talent work their butts off to win games. Mike Holovak did

    a terrific job with limited resources.

    Today I've become too fussy. I'm spoiled and I'm upset if the Pats

    can't win the Superbowl every year. I complain constantly on this forum

    when the Pats lose good players and don't sign good free agents. I hate

    to see any missed opportunity to keep the Pats from being a Superbowl

    contender.
  9. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Total understatement. Fantastic stuff guys...........
  10. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Never said he was a saint. No one else wanted to start another football team, though.

    Why can't the Sullivan haters put it aside and realize it is an interesting story, if nothing else?
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Wow. This is becoming one of my favorite threads here ever.

    Steve Sabol of NFL Films did a GREAT program on the Pottstown Eagles King Cochran a couple of years ago,and it gets replayed on the NFL Network often. What a character!!!!!!! Not quite a full deck, but hey.

    Maybe Ian can start a new forum of Personal Pats Memories and separate it out by decade. There really is a treasure trove of personal memories throughout the franchise history from the posters on this site.

    Thanks for that.
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    God bless Billy, but I prefer Walter Brown in that category any day.
  13. pats60

    pats60 Rookie

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    In 1966 to 1971 Bob starr did play by play Santos did the color.
    The Birmingham game was played against San Diego.
    The game here was shown on video tape not live.Chanell 4 showed it
    at 11 pm. Red sox was in world serries thats why.
    It took 6 months i remeber to get our refunds $18.00
  14. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're right about the Buffalo game, NEM. I just looked it up, it was the 1964 season, the last game of the year, and the Pats had to beat Buffalo to make the playoffs. That's why I recalled it as a playoff game.

    Also, that broadcasting team of Gil Santos and Bob Starr was a great one. I think they did the BC games as well, didn't they?
  15. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I still hate Ben Dreith
  16. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't think you steal stock.

    He bought back stock with the appreciation of the team. Of course he was mortgaged to the hilt and should have just taken his profit or sold the team for quite a bit of money.

    It would have been a lot easier to sell the team than to keep it going without a home until they could finally build a stadium.

    And it was a poor stadium. I'm sure the people of Birmingham Alabama, Tenessee or wherever would have bought the team a state of the art facility while that ahole Sullivan invested his money in the stock market and lived on his yacht.

    But the stupid bastard kept trying to find ways to make enough to run the team as they should be. But he never did. What a sap.

    I guess we all could have kept that franchise alive over the years. Even though most of those ventures fail.

    And I guess we're all stock market experts as well as arm chair business experts on top of monday morning quarterbacks.

    All you have to do is be a multi millionaire and have some sap keep the franchise alive for 28 years then hire Belichick and win the Super Bowl every year.
  17. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Why do I have to defend him? He was a lousy owner mostly because he didn't have the money. But nobody else wanted to start the team.

    He could have sold it to somebody who would have moved it and made a fortune.

    He was stupid. He only loved the team, he ended up broke.
  18. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Easy, Ray. I wrote "God bless Billy".

    I just like the Walter Brown story a little better in the 'Irish owner with no money but a romantic dream' category.

    Billy fought almost insurmountable odds. If people don't think NE is a hotbed of football excitement now, they should consider what it wasin the late 1950's. BC's football greatness ofthe 40's was over and the best local college player EVER took a job on the Red Sox bench before dying tragically. People of that era STILL hate Pat Summerall and the Giants because up until the 1970's the Giants preempted the Pats on local TV every Sunday.

    Even in the 70's and early 80's I can still remember Eddie Andelman on the old Sports Huddle program on WHDH on Sunday nights running through the NFL scores blandly and then (with great relish) saying "....and the New York Giants received a VICIOUS beating to the_________ 19-14".

    That's what makes The Best Franchise of the New Millenium such a delicious story. Perhaps NO franchise for its first twenty years was so "disenfranchised" as the Boston/New England Patriots.

    Billy fought an ocean of indifference. He brought them and he kept them here.

    It's all good. :)
  19. thomas144

    thomas144 Rookie

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    Does anybody remember the last game of the 1966 season. Against Joe Namath and the Jets. The Patriots lost 38-28. As I recall, if they had won they would have faced Kansas City for a chance to play in the first superbowl...

    The famous play of that game, in which a Patriot was held by his shirt on a breakaway play - if they had used "tear shirts" (remember those?) they might have played in the Superbowl...
  20. pats60

    pats60 Rookie

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    THAT PLAYER WAS T.E. ART GRAHAM
    I THINK IT WAS JOE`S BEST GAME HE EVER PLAYED AGAINST US
  21. thomas144

    thomas144 Rookie

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    I do remember thinking that WOW this guy really is worth a $400,000 signing bonus!
  22. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey



    Well it works better if you have Red Auerbach to lean on, though there's a nice article about Holovak on this site.
    http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/frpage.cfm?topic=holovak

    I am interested in Sullivan. I don't think Walter Brown is interesting. A wonderful guy, but Auerbach was the interesting one.

    (Bolded part)-That's what I'm talking about. Thanks.

    I really don't want to get into an argument about Sullivan. If you hate him, I respect that. If you want to call him a thief, fine. Whatever makes you happy.

    I'm just looking for info.
  23. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was one of the hardest Patriots losses ever, at least for me. That '66 team was one of my favorites of all time, with Jim Nance in his prime. They would have been in the playoffs but for Joe Willie and Shea Stadium.

    Namath was absolutely unconscious that day, throwing perfect bullets 40 yards downfield. Later he wrote that he partied hard the night before, and was so hung over for that game that he couldn't remember a thing about it.
  24. pats60

    pats60 Rookie

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    My wife was right i was wrong pats played jets in birmingham.
    San diego was in 1966 they switched the game from here to San diego.
    Guess I`m getting old
  25. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    The reason why it was the Jets in Birmingham was
    Joe Namath played college ball at Alabama and Billy Sullivan
    thought it would draw fans to see him play and also decide to build a stadium for the Patriots and he would have moved the team.
  26. thomas144

    thomas144 Rookie

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    That was, apparently, the year they beat at Buffalo at Fenway Park, only two weeks previously (on December 4, 1966), which up to that point might have been the "biggest" game I was aware of, as a fan.

    I found this season results page:

    http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/results.nsf/Teams/1966-bos

    One of the things I remember about that Jets game was a commentator at half-time saying something about how it didn't look like the Patriots could pull it out, because they were trailing by (maybe, I don't remember) 10 points. For some reason I was shocked that that was considered an insurmountable lead.

    I just found a box score here:

    http://nflhistory.net/linescores/pdf/1966a.pdf

    I do remember it being a Saturday game. I remember what room I was in, watching this game.
  27. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

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    My older brother took me to see the Pats play @ Harvard Stadium . it was my first pro football game and I was so excited to go
  28. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I believe the stock was underpriced just as the Celtics stock was. People bought it to support the team that no sane person thought could make it.

    For a few shares of stock they had a football team. I don't believe he was accused of doing anything illegal, but I'm not a securities expert.

    We seem to have experts on every field, not just football here.

    I fault Sullivan for loving football and the team. Once he gained control he could have sold the team or moved it, like Kraft threatened to do.

    Maybe we would have been better off had he sold to another owner, I'm not defending him on that.

    But for somebody that devoted most of his life trying to keep a franchise without a stadium afloat and who finally found a site, inadequate though it was, to have the sum total be "he's just a thief".....

    That just sucks IMO.

    Had he been only in it for the money, he had plenty of opportunity to cash out.

    Maybe Kraft was totally bluffing about Hartford, are we sure?................
  29. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Anyone else go to the first game at Schaeffer Stadium? I was just a yungun' then, I remember the place wasn't done, and I had to pee in the sink (I had to be held up to go). It was my first pro game, and I loved it.
  30. Patriotic

    Patriotic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Didn't go but I remember listening to Gil Santos on WBZ saying there still alot of headlights crawling toward the parking lots in the second quarter.

    Pats beat the Giants in that pre-season game as I recall. Remember hearing after the game that the stadium plumbing still needed a little work.

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