Your reaction if Drew Bledsoe win a Super Bowl ?

[MoLewisrocks]

No, Joe, it's you who are missing the point, in my opinion.

Read my post.

Was there a single word of criticism about how Bledsoe conducted himself after losing his job here to Brady? No, and for a good reason. Neither you nor I know what went on. There is almost no impartial information available (although there are a good many partial accounts).

My post was about how he behaved in Buffalo. I have no emotional investment there, one way or the other, but what I saw was a player who not only played poorly a lot of the time, but also one who made excuse after excuse that pointed at other members of the organization. Even if you're right -- especially if you're right -- that's no way to develop a one-for-all all-for-one team mentality.

And no, I haven't forgotten where the Patriots were when Drew arrived or how much the team improved thanks to him. It's just that my former rose-coloured spectacles are now not so pink.

He behaved much the same way in Foxboro too. It was never his fault.

A wise man once told me most people look in the mirror and see what they want to see. That was Drew Bledsoe. The franchise QB who was always stymied by someone elses ineptitude or poor decision making - including the new genius HC who decided we had a much better chance with a wide eyed kid who exuded real leadership at the helm. A kid who barely got drafted who was evolving into a self made franchise QB other guys would run through a wall for and not the stubborn, delusional, entitled #1 all my life, do as I say not as I do backdoor finger pointer who never worked at his craft and whose shortcomings were becoming increasingly difficult for even a genius to coach around.

I don't blame Drew for wanting his job back, by and large that's human nature. But I'm not going to romanticize his years here because he was drafted to be a face of the franchise QB. Actually playing in the NFL is a priviledge you earn, not a birthright, and the only thing harder than getting there is staying there. If he wanted to lead this team to another Superbowl he should have started by dedicating himself to becoming be a real leader and not just a draft choice entitled one after Parcells left or even when Belichick returned. Instead he slid into the role of expensive albatross whose mere existance merited a richer contract than Favre and whose inability to focus on his own performance was so fleeting he cost his new HC who was willing to treat him like an adult his shot at succeeding in the NFL. Because Drew always thought the job was just to show up when it was mandatory, say all the right things in public, and be perceived as the franchise, - and how could I forget, to just sling it - not to actually take responsibility for leading the franchise and his teamates anywhere. If Mo Lewis and Tom Brady hadn't stepped into the picture he might well have cost Belichick his final NFL HC job by 2002 and we'd all be here today talking about... the Patsies and their 47 year quest for a championship and respectability.

Over a several year period, Kraft, Parcells, Belichick and Brady turned this franchise around in that order. Drew was just in the right place at the right time to tag along as the handsome face of the early part of the ride. When the time came to cement the turnaround he gets way too much credit for, Drew was nothing more than the last remaining obstacle to be overcome.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sorry but I don't think that Drew will be coming back to Foxboro for a retirement ceremony like that, one day -- and I have to say that I think that that is his fault.

Maybe one needs to have lived in New England for the last 20 years or so to recognize it, but to draw comparisons between Flutie and Bledsoe is REALLY missing the point.

Unless I missed the point, Flutie was NOT being recognized upon retirement for his contributions to the New England Patriots.

He's been an icon around here since he was a QB at Natick High School, then Boston College and throuthout his "Rudyesque" career and the Patriots did the smart and right thing to please the hometown fans send him off with some fanfare.

So to say that it's "Bledsoe's fault" that he's not going to have a retirement ceremony like Flutie's makes no sense whatsover.

Very few people around here have been following Bledsoe's career since high school though I suppose you can blame his parents for the fact that he isn't 5 foot 9.

No doubt Flutie himself made a BIGGER public stink when he was benched in Buffalo for Johnson than Bledsoe ever did - and with that being the case I don't think there are too many Buffalo fans still holding a grudge about that... but by the time he re-signed here last year, he had aged gracefully into a role that he recognized as a backup QB.

Laughably, there were tons of Patsfans members who actually predicted that Flutie would actually be a DISTRACTION around here because they didn't realize he had gotten his ego in check long ago (and that there would actualy be a QB controversy with fans calling him to start ahead of Brady... seems crazy but there were actually some heated debates here about it by otherwise sane members!)

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I loved the potential of Bledsoe when he came, thinking he would be another Marino or Aikman. But by the screwups against Pittsburgh in 1997 (blowing the 8 point lead with 2 minutes to go and with the ball) and the playoff loss at Pittsburgh, I was done with him. He became Testerverde. He has NEVER put a great 16 game season together. He has the numbers to go to Canton. So has Testerverde. Bledsoe and Brady are Testerverde and Montana.
All will go to Canton, but c'mon!

That's when I abandoned the Bledsoe Krishna sect. Following the previous 4 INTs in the SB to see Drew yet again fail in a big game the following season, I realized that he was just a tease. Then, watching a Belichick NY Jets D perform a coaching clinic dismantling of 'The Statue' I felt that we were toast as a playoff franchise. The book on how to stop Bledsoe was out and published for all to see.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't blame Drew for wanting his job back, by and large that's human nature. But I'm not going to romanticize his years here because he was drafted to be a face of the franchise QB.

If he wanted to lead this team to another Superbowl he should have started by dedicating himself to becoming be a real leader and not just a draft choice entitled one after Parcells left or even when Belichick returned.

Yeah - he was just mailing it in the whole time. Like when he mailed it in playing with staples in his throwing finger... taking massive hits from a pourous OL, and shaking it off.

I'd pass blame on to him for any role he had in getting his friends Max Lane and Todd Rucci re-signed, but that responsibility ultimately that falls to the coach and GM.

Was I watching a different QB all those years?

Sure, he wasn't mobile, tried to force passes and was continuously sacked... but we're now going so far as to revise history and suggest that he wasn't trying, wasn't tough and didn't do a pretty darn good job leading by example?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The 'wasn't trying' referred to Drew's notable LACK of off season improvement. Post season he always took off with his family to Montanner. I admire that as a family man (that's the context for my personal Drew's a good guy feelings, not his Pats contributions) but I do not admire that conduct as a franchise QB with notable flaws. Flaws he never, ever worked off season to address. Contrast that behaviour to Larry Bird, I mean Tom Brady. I too love Moe Lewis as a saviour of this franchise.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Maybe one needs to have lived in New England for the last 20 years or so to recognize it, but to draw comparisons between Flutie and Bledsoe is REALLY missing the point.

Unless I missed the point, Flutie was NOT being recognized upon retirement for his contributions to the New England Patriots.

He's been an icon around here since he was a QB at Natick High School, then Boston College and throuthout his "Rudyesque" career and the Patriots did the smart and right thing to please the hometown fans send him off with some fanfare.

So to say that it's "Bledsoe's fault" that he's not going to have a retirement ceremony like Flutie's makes no sense whatsover.

Very few people around here have been following Bledsoe's career since high school though I suppose you can blame his parents for the fact that he isn't 5 foot 9.

No doubt Flutie himself made a BIGGER public stink when he was benched in Buffalo for Johnson than Bledsoe ever did - and with that being the case I don't think there are too many Buffalo fans still holding a grudge about that... but by the time he re-signed here last year, he had aged gracefully into a role that he recognized as a backup QB.

Laughably, there were tons of Patsfans members who actually predicted that Flutie would actually be a DISTRACTION around here because they didn't realize he had gotten his ego in check long ago (and that there would actualy be a QB controversy with fans calling him to start ahead of Brady... seems crazy but there were actually some heated debates here about it by otherwise sane members!)

It's not about who is or was the greater New England icon. But Flutie behaved here with a LOT of class (despite his reputation) and it was reciprocated by BB. At another level, no one in the team has had anything but praise for Rohan Davey. It's just a shame that the parting with Bledsoe didn't happen in an equally classy way -- and for that I (now) have come to blame Bledsoe.

 

[italian pat patriot]

very nice that we did not took Rick Mirer over Drew Bledsoe otherwise...

Drew imho was and is a great men and a very good qb.

we should never forget a game against MIN (trailing 20-0...) with 26-20 victory : 45 complete passes on 70 attempts (probably an NFL record ?).
at 22 years he went to the Pro Bowl and he sent the Patriots to the play-offs after several bad bad years and he lead in 1996 to the Super Bowl at only 24 years.

probably if Bill Parcells was more involved on the game we should have won it

 

[Jacky Roberts]

The problem I have (assuming Drew stays in Dallas), is if Bledsoe wins, Parcells wins. I love Drew, but I'll root against Dallas if they make the Super Bowl. A perfect scenario would be the Pats demolish Dallas in XLI with Seymour getting about 5 sacks.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's not about who is or was the greater New England icon. But Flutie behaved here with a LOT of class (despite his reputation) and it was reciprocated by BB. At another level, no one in the team has had anything but praise for Rohan Davey. It's just a shame that the parting with Bledsoe didn't happen in an equally classy way -- and for that I (now) have come to blame Bledsoe.

But you state very clearly that its "Drew's fault" that Boston isn't going to give him the same treatment they gave Flutie.

I've got news for you... they didn't give Flutie that send off because he was "classy" for his last season with the Patriots.

Technically I guess it is Drew's fault that he didn't go to Natick High School, went to college in Washington rather than at BC, and is 6 foot 4 or whatever but I guess that's just the way it is.

If you were expecting anything similar to Flutie's send off for Bledsoe when the team traded him I think you were kidding yourself too - he wasn't retiring - he was going to a division rival.

 

[Mike the Brit]

But you state very clearly that its "Drew's fault" that Boston isn't going to give him the same treatment they gave Flutie.

Yes. He would have been a hero in Boston -- even after leaving -- had he handled it with class and dignity.

I've got news for you... they didn't give Flutie that send off because he was "classy" for his last season with the Patriots.

Well I don't know where you're getting the news, but you can't believe that Kraft and Belichick would have love-bombed the Flute in the way they did unless he'd earned respect with his conduct last season.

Technically I guess it is Drew's fault that he didn't go to Natick High School, went to college in Washington rather than at BC, and is 6 foot 4 or whatever but I guess that's just the way it is.

Totally irrelevant point. Irrelevant when you made it last time. Still irrelevant.

If you were expecting anything similar to Flutie's send off for Bledsoe when the team traded him I think you were kidding yourself too - he wasn't retiring - he was going to a division rival.

Irrelevant again -- I was discussing whether there would come a point in the future when Drew could look forward to being welcomed back to New England and thanked for all his (indisputable) contributions to the Patriots.

Ten characters.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Yes. He would have been a hero in Boston -- even after leaving -- had he handled it with class and dignity.

Well I don't know where you're getting the news, but you can't believe that Kraft and Belichick would have love-bombed the Flute in the way they did unless he'd earned respect with his conduct last season.

Totally irrelevant point. Irrelevant when you made it last time. Still irrelevant.

If you were expecting anything similar to Flutie's send off for Bledsoe when the team traded him I think you were kidding yourself too - he wasn't retiring - he was going to a division rival.

Irrelevant again -- I was discussing whether there would come a point in the future when Drew could look forward to being welcomed back to New England and thanked for all his (indisputable) contributions to the Patriots.

You don't seem to realize that Flutie was not being recognized for his career with the Patriots - nor solely with the NFL.... it was a "local boy who they said could never make it professionally makes good" story and the Patriots organization is smart enough to jump on that bandwagon.

That's why the fact that Flutie is a hometown boy and Drew is not makes it an apples and oranges comparison.

The fact that Flutie is from the Boston area was not "irrelevant" to the treatment he was given - it was THE REASON he received the treatment he did.

That's something Bledsoe wouldn't receive upon his retirement even had the Patriots won the Super Bowl in 1996.

If you are questioning whether or not Bledsoe's departure was so rocky that he's now personae non grata in Boston I think you're misreading the situation as well.

I think the vast majority of fans DO recognize what he meant to the development of this organization and likely WOULD show appreciation for him as well - he certainly wouldn't receive the fanfare of Flutie around here upon retirement but I hope by now you should be beginning to recognize why Flutie is a special case around here.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

very nice that we did not took Rick Mirer over Drew Bledsoe otherwise...

Drew imho was and is a great men and a very good qb.

we should never forget a game against MIN (trailing 20-0...) with 26-20 victory : 45 complete passes on 70 attempts (probably an NFL record ?).
at 22 years he went to the Pro Bowl and he sent the Patriots to the play-offs after several bad bad years and he lead in 1996 to the Super Bowl at only 24 years.

probably if Bill Parcells was more involved on the game we should have won it

Otherwise what? The 1993 Rookie of the Year might have blossomed here under HOF coaching and competent ownership into what Bill Walsh predicted he'd be - the next Montana - instead of gradually floundering in far less than optimum circumstances in Seattle. He had a better QB rating than Bledsoe in two of their first three seasons on a team that never did turn it around and whose HC left shortly after him, soon to be followed by an ownership who was trying to move the team to LA finally selling out to Paul Allen.

Heck - we might have 4 or more Lombardis by now.....

Brady actually led us to a superbowl and won at 24 in essentially his rookie season. His QB rating has never dipped below 85 in 5 seasons as a starter here, while Drew's only topped 85 once in his 9 seasons as a starter here.

Maybe it's the geographical distance or location from which you follow them, but IMO in reminiscing you overly romanticize many things about this franchise including Drew's overall performance.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Otherwise what? The 1993 Rookie of the Year might have blossomed here under HOF coaching and competent ownership into what Bill Walsh predicted he'd be - the next Montana - instead of gradually floundering in far less than optimum circumstances in Seattle. He had a better QB rating than Bledsoe in two of their first three seasons on a team that never did turn it around and whose HC left shortly after him, soon to be followed by an ownership who was trying to move the team to LA finally selling out to Paul Allen.

Heck - we might have 4 or more Lombardis by now.....

Brady actually led us to a superbowl and won at 24 in essentially his rookie season. His QB rating has never dipped below 85 in 5 seasons as a starter here, while Drew's only topped 85 once in his 9 seasons as a starter here.

Maybe it's the geographical distance or location from which you follow them, but IMO in reminiscing you overly romanticize many things about this franchise including Drew's overall performance.

Wowww!

I'm not sure what personal vendetta you have against Bledsoe, but when people are going as far to suggest that Rick Mirer was fundamentally a better QB then you KNOW there's something up.

I've been a Patriots fan for awhile but have NEVER heard anyone suggest that they wished we had taken Mirer rather than Bledsoe.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Brady actually led us to a superbowl and won at 24 in essentially his rookie season. His QB rating has never dipped below 85 in 5 seasons as a starter here, while Drew's only topped 85 once in his 9 seasons as a starter here.

Maybe it's the geographical distance or location from which you follow them, but IMO in reminiscing you overly romanticize many things about this franchise including Drew's overall performance.

Joe is a true Bledsoe Krishna.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Joe is a true Bledsoe Krishna.

What does that mean?

If it means that I think Bledsoe is a better QB than Rick Mirer than I guess I am...

Just for kicks maybe we should have a Bledsoe or Mirer poll here just to show that very few people have such animosity towards Bledsoe.

No one's suggesting that anyone would rather have anyone but Brady, but there does seem to be a small but angry group of people who actually seem to HATE Drew Bledsoe.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Disrespect 'His Drewness" is more like it. Back in Drew's day, there were no girly man Message Boards. Real men posted on USENET. Every season the Bledsoe Krishnas in their worship of 'The Tall One' would chant "If only..." following every debacle of a loss, especially after Drew's typical choke performances in BIG games (AFC Championship vs Jagwads, SuperBowl, the next season vs the Squealers... on and on)

If only...
Drew had a coach who understood him
Drew had an OL to protect him
Drew didn't have so many different offensive coordinators
Drew had an All-Pro WR to complement Ben Coates
(insert favorite excuse for Drew's failure here)

 

[JoeSixPat]

Disrespect 'His Drewness" is more like it. Back in Drew's day, there were no girly man Message Boards. Real men posted on USENET. Every season the Bledsoe Krishnas in their worship of 'The Tall One' would chant "If only..." following every debacle of a loss, especially after Drew's typical choke performances in BIG games (AFC Championship vs Jagwads, SuperBowl, the next season vs the Squealers... on and on)

If only...
Drew had a coach who understood him
Drew had an OL to protect him
Drew didn't have so many different offensive coordinators
Drew had an All-Pro WR to complement Ben Coates
(insert favorite excuse for Drew's failure here)

So a Bledsoe Krishna is someone who recognizes Bledsoe's shortcomings like I've mentioned many times in this thread?

I guess that's me... so what's the point?

Is there a term for someone who thinks Rick Mirer is a better QB than Bledsoe?

You're beginning to convince me though... the Bledsoe years were really the Dark Ages of Patriots football around here, and the fact that the guy had more come from behind victories than Joe Montana just shows what a crappy QB he was in the first place... I mean why was his team behind in the first place?

We should have stuck with Hugh Millen.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Cretin (10 characters)

 

[JoeSixPat]

Cretin (10 characters)

Drew or me?

Regardless, I guess I can take my bow or do a victory lap.

Whenever someone need resort to name calling in any debate, they've all but admitted they've lost.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You don't seem to realize that Flutie was not being recognized for his career with the Patriots - nor solely with the NFL.... it was a "local boy who they said could never make it professionally makes good" story and the Patriots organization is smart enough to jump on that bandwagon.

That's why the fact that Flutie is a hometown boy and Drew is not makes it an apples and oranges comparison.

The fact that Flutie is from the Boston area was not "irrelevant" to the treatment he was given - it was THE REASON he received the treatment he did.

That's something Bledsoe wouldn't receive upon his retirement even had the Patriots won the Super Bowl in 1996.

If you are questioning whether or not Bledsoe's departure was so rocky that he's now personae non grata in Boston I think you're misreading the situation as well.

I think the vast majority of fans DO recognize what he meant to the development of this organization and likely WOULD show appreciation for him as well - he certainly wouldn't receive the fanfare of Flutie around here upon retirement but I hope by now you should be beginning to recognize why Flutie is a special case around here.

Flutie received the sendoff he did from Belichick as well as Kraft because they both recognize his career as a football player and respect him for making the very most of his talent against almost insurmountable odds. The next time Drew Bledsoe does that will be the first time.

They wouldn't have made anything of Doug retiring other than to comment in passing had he not retired as a Patriot, but they also brought him here because they respected his talent and work ethic and passion for the game of football - not because of Boston PR. In fact Belichick had been hoping to bring him here in 2003 or 2004 had SD not decided they weren't ready to let him go. Belichick could give a hoot about feel good PR stunts when it comes to team matters. His admiration for Doug as a football player is genuine, hard as that is for some to acknowledge, and that is why he attended and spoke fairly eloquently.

I don't think he feels that way about Drew, although I'm sure he would not stand in the way of a retirement signing/announcement and would say the gracious things. Just not gonna happen because Bledsoe quietly burned that bridge in late 2001 and in 2002 when he tried to undermine BB quietly in the meeting rooms and in the press, failed to attend the parade or come to the white house and basically told them to mail the ring. He essentially left here under the same phony guise as in Buffalo, that "they" were not going to give him a chance to compete....it's always somebody elses fault when things don't go Drew's way.

He had 9 years to compete for the job here, and three in Buffalo, and now he's in Dallas because they didn't have anyone capable of competing and Tuna is tired of even looking.

And I never said I wished we picked Mirer - rather our italian friend was gushing gratitude that we hadn't, and IMO for all we know it would have been at worst a wash. It was Bill Walsh (and some say Parcells at one point concurred) who thought Mirer was the #1 choice. He went to a lousy situation and after a better start he went into a decline. Maybe with Parcells he would have blossomed. Maybe if he went to Seattle at #2 Drew would have suffered much the same fate as Mirer. Drew had Parcells and company, and by his own revisionist admission after Tuna left Drew's career went into decline.