Welcome to PatsFans.com

You spend the money

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by betterthanthealternative, Nov 23, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    We like to talk about how great the team will be with another good draft and year of experience. This is a list of the players on the roster but unsigned for 2011. Who would you try and extend now? Who would you wait and compete for later?

    Keep in mind that money you spend on these guys is money you don't have for other players. Everybody we sign is instead of someone else.

    Offense
    LT Matt Light
    LG Logan Mankins
    RB Sammy Morris
    C Ryan Wendell
    OT Rich Ohrnberger
    OT Quinn Ojinnaka
    RB Kevin Faulk
    RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis
    RB Fred Taylor
    RB Danny Woodhead


    Defense
    DE Gerard Warren
    DT Darryl Richard
    DT Kade Weston
    CB Kyle Arrington
    LB Tracy White
    S Josh Barrett
    S Sergio Brown
    S Bret Lockett
    S Brandon McGowan
    S Jarrod Page
  2. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    No Jersey Selected

    This is one of the reasons that the whole rookie pay scale needs to be redone. No one should enter the league as a rookie, regardless of the number of their selection, and be making more than a veteran player. No one.

    Put a standard pay scale into place that gives, for example, a $100,000 signing bonus for every rookie, and if they survive the cut and/or get signed to a teams roster and are present on opening day, they earn a guaranteed $500,000 base salary. Teams could offer incentive clauses for each year based upon production, participation, etc, but the rookies ought to be paying their dues.

    Leave the big contracts for those who are proven commodities. Guys who have shown how to play and show up for work, not cause distractions, keep in shape, be a part of the team, etc.

    V/R
  3. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,601
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    1. Light
    2. Mankins
    3. Green-Ellis
    4. Woodhead
    5. Arrington

    We can afford all of them. The rest are cheap if we want to keep any of them. Like the OL and S's. Not much of a demand for them.
  4. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I like spending other perople's money :D. I'll play along...

    Offense
    LT Matt Light 2 yr deal
    LG Logan Mankins multi years deal
    RB Sammy Morris gone
    C Ryan Wendell who knows
    OT Rich Ohrnberger who knows
    OT Quinn Ojinnaka sure
    RB Kevin Faulk just dont know.....
    RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis yes. servicable runner and St guy
    RB Fred Taylor No.
    RB Danny Woodhead YES!!


    Defense
    DE Gerard Warren 1 yr deal
    DT Darryl Richard who knows
    DT Kade Weston sure
    CB Kyle Arrington sure
    LB Tracy White who knows
    S Josh Barrett who knows
    S Sergio Brown i thought he had a 2 yr deal?
    S Bret Lockett who cares
    S Brandon McGowan who cares
    S Jarrod Page i think this guy can do something, but he has Chung and Sanders ahead of him.
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,237
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    There is something to be said for rewarding the top few picks—after all, their "reward" for being the best players in the draft is that generally they go to play for the worst teams in the league.

    The problem is that the compensation for those top 10 or so players is so out of whack.

    Personally, I'd set the first-round contracts at something like the current #17 pick, scaling up/down 2% or so per pick (e.g., #1 gets about 30% more, #32 about 30% less).
  6. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Offense
    LT Matt Light - 3 year deal
    LG Logan Mankins - 5 year deal
    RB Sammy Morris
    C Ryan Wendell
    OT Rich Ohrnberger
    OT Quinn Ojinnaka
    RB Kevin Faulk
    RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis - RFA tender
    RB Fred Taylor
    RB Danny Woodhead - 5 year deal


    Defense
    DE Gerard Warren - consider if cheap
    DT Darryl Richard
    DT Kade Weston
    CB Kyle Arrington - RFA Tender
    LB Tracy White - consider if cheap
    S Josh Barrett - RFA Tender
    S Sergio Brown - RFA Tender
    S Bret Lockett - consider if cheap
    S Brandon McGowan - consider if cheap
    S Jarrod Page - consider if cheap

    And take some of the young OL/DL to training camp assuming nobody offers them a raise
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    *I'd want to be sure Faulk could pass a physical, and was certain that he wanted to play another year, first. It would be interesting to see if the Patriots would try using a backfield of Faulk/Woodhead on some passing downs.

    **I'm not particularly a fan of his but, with Morris and Taylor moving on, if BJGE will come back at backup money and accept a backup role, he'll have a role on the team. I expect the team to look for at least 2 runners to bring in, to battle for the RB1 spot.

    I'd consider the other O-linemen as nothing more than camp fodder/backup possibilities/completely replaceable.


    *If Warren is willing to be solely a situational rushing DL, and to be paid accordingly, I could see bringing him back. Outside of that, I'd let him walk.

    I'd bring back either McGowan or Page, but not both. My safety core would be Meriweather/Chung/Sanders, so the other player would be coming back with the understanding that he's #4 on the depth chart.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  8. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    No Jersey Selected

    Yeah, I was just throwing out numbers. It's still amazing that only in professional sports do folks get those kinds of contracts without having to work themselves up through the ranks, or show that they can perform at that level on a consistent basis.
  9. JonVaughnTD

    JonVaughnTD Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    That's probably the least scary list of free agents I've ever seen. There are only a few key players but nobody they can't live without. They'll be able to bring back anybody they want except for maybe Mankins if another team is willing to overpay for him. The Patriots are in such a great position right now. The future is bright.
  10. Jared

    Jared Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The vast majority of those guys will take pennies to re-sign, or they will get an ERFA/RFA tender. Of the few who won't, Morris and Mankins can go, Faulk likely will retire (and he can walk if he wants to play with another team). The older backups are mostly JAGs, the younger backups get tags.

    The ONLY veteran on that list that I try to re-sign who will cost any significant money is Light. Light isn't great, but he is pretty good, and we don't have a replacement ready.
  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    So are you a Jets fan, or just a Patriots fan who hasn't been watching the offensive line play the last 2 games?
  12. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I'm indifferent to the players I didn't comment on.
  13. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Miguel's roster page has them as 2010. Perhaps they extended recently and his page hasn't been updated. I hope so; having those two guys at low money for another year just makes that list even more ridiculous.
  14. Lamanai

    Lamanai Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    They are both RFA. So we can tender them at various levels between $1.2 million and $3.3 million...They could sign somewhere else, but we'd get compensation in the form of draft pick(s).
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    BOTTOM LINE
    There is very little financial pressure the 2011 offseason for the patriots. The FO is well-prepared for the 2011 season. The big question is the terms of the new player agreement.
    I think that if you asked Brady where to allocated top dollars, his top two priorities would be to bring back Light and Mankins. The 2011 will be awesome with those 2 coming back, Warren and Bodden back, along with the top draft chocies, and Belichick's usual couple of midpriced veteran UFA's (like Crumpler and Warren). We obviously need a free agent running back or two.
    ========================

    THE TOP TWO
    --------------
    Personally, I would want to sign Light and Mankins to major contracts. I would also consider franchising them. Of course, some prefer a whole new line. This is the only real potential hole on this team, compared to this year's team. After all, we will get Warren and Bodden back, and perhaps Kaczur.

    =================
    SIGN the ERFA's and tender the RFA's
    ------------------------------------
    Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Barrett, Arrington, Lockett, Sergio Brown, Love, Ohrnberger, Wendell Richard, and Weston. There is little downside in signing these players. I would expect a $1.8M tender to Green-Elllis and a $2.6M tender to Woodhead. Long-term contract is a good idea, if they are interested at what the patriots want to pay.
    ===================================

    THE RUNNING BACKS
    I suspect that one of the three ancient ones will be abck, likely Faulk. But this is not a big deal. We need at least two additions before camp.
    ===============================

    THE REST
    I like Ojinnaka as a backup OT and OG. Dante seems to agree, having him as the active backup OT.

    Warren has been a positive addition. This again is not a critical issue.

    The rest are special teamers. I am fine with any of them coming back. That list includes McGowan, Page, and White.


    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  16. jsull87

    jsull87 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    No particular order.

    Offense: Mankins, Light, Faulk (if no retirement 1 year/2year deal) BJGE, Woodhead, Morris (if he is going to be taking avg fullback money)

    Let go/see if they stick pre season for little $: Taylor (Honestly i think he might be gone next year he is oft injured), Ojinnaka and depending how we draft probably Ohrnberger but i think alot of the OL will be brought into training camp to see who fits.

    Defense: Warren, Arrington, Brown (i thought we already signed him for 4 years?) and McGowan or Page. I think only one of those 2 will make the roster next year as our #4 safety

    Let go/see if they stick pre season for little $:DT Darryl Richard DT Kade WestonLB Tracy White S Josh Barrett S Bret Lockett (the last 2 are fighting it out for special teams pre season)

    Personally i don't see how we can always not find a better replacement for Slater but it still hasn't happened yet sooo there you go
  17. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    No way on Light. 2 yr deal @ $8m tops w/ a good chunk in year 1.

    I think Woody gets a multi-year deal.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  19. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    would love to see both law firm and woody back.

    Agree re Light and Mankins also. Hope they can come to an arrangement with him. As others have rightly said. Its an aging line and he brings not only experience but one hell of a game to the O-line
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    Why on Earth should Light take a pay cut?
  21. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I think hes your 3rd down RB for a long time...
  22. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Mankins -- Yes, he's worth big bucks.

    Light -- A solidly average established LT. Pay him as same. On a short deal, he deserves high annual pay.

    Woodhead -- Kevin Faulk of the future. Probably better than Faulk at the same stage of their respective careers.

    Faulk -- His value goes down w/ Woodhead, but he's worth the roster slot. He also should accept less money if he's going to take less punishment. The only reason you shouldn't want to take 7-figure pay to play a game you love is if you're thinking about your post-retirement health. (Faulk is not at the stage of wealth where money is totally irrelevant.)

    BJGE -- This is a RB by committee league. Middle-class low 7 figures money is OK for him. He's proven to be a solidly competent unspecial RB, more productive than some.

    G. Warren -- Nice, versatile role player. Sign him for JAG money.

    White -- Izzo always came cheap, so he should too. Good.

    Arrington -- If somebody offers him Randy Gay money (that name still amazes me), let him walk. At JAG money, keep him.

    Taylor -- Has turned fragile again. Don't spend the roster slot on him. Rather, for 5 RBs, go Woodhead, Faulk, Ellis, & 2 new guys, one of them a bruiser. Probably have Ellis as the FB for the true-FB plays, since BB thinks you need experience to play that role.

    Backup safeties -- Possibly none, and just go w/ Brown, who's already locked up? The need for safety depth depends a bit on CB depth.

    Backup OL -- No opinion.

    Richard -- Why?

    Morris -- Upgrade his position.
  23. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10,960
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Wow, we're in very good shape for next year. Should be able to field most of the same team plus Bodden, Warren, Kaczur, and a boatload of draft picks to work with.

    Mankins is the only concern as I thought I heard we gave him a really good offer and hard to see us topping that. The rest of the guys should be very retainable for decent #'s.
  24. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,883
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Offense
    LT Matt Light
    LG Logan Mankins
    RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis
    RB Danny Woodhead


    Defense
    DE Gerard Warren
    DT Kade Weston
    CB Kyle Arrington
    LB Tracy White
    S Sergio Brown
    S Jarrod Page

    Gone
    Offense
    C Ryan Wendell
    OT Rich Ohrnberger
    OT Quinn Ojinnaka
    RB Fred Taylor
    RB Sammy Morris
    RB Kevin Faulk

    Defense
    DT Darryl Richard
    S Josh Barrett
    S Bret Lockett
    S Brandon McGowan

    The team usually turns over 12-15 players.
    There are 10. Assume a couple others turn over as well. (Neal, Woods?)

    By the way, probably the weakest free agent class of Patriots in a decade. Mankins is clearly the priority, then Light, then a bunch or restricted guys.
  25. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,883
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Also sort of interesting distribution.

    All Offensive free agents are RB and OL. No QB, WR, TE. Half of the total free agents are RB and OL. With every RB a free agent, as noted in a draft thread, the Patriots could go from oldest RB rotation to start 2010 (Taylor, Morris, Faulk) to the youngest.

    Also, there is the potential for Light and Mankins to leave and Neal to retire. That's the biggest downside at any position group.

    On defense, a whole bunch of back-up Safeties dominate the numbers. Pats can take their pick.
  26. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The slimy weasel agents are gonna love that.
  27. the wrothbroughterer

    the wrothbroughterer Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Offense
    LT Matt Light Re-Sign
    LG Logan Mankins Screw him, franchise and collect a pick
    RB Sammy Morris CUT
    C Ryan Wendell Re-Sign
    OT Quinn Ojinnaka CUT
    RB Kevin Faulk CUT
    RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis Re-Sign
    RB Fred Taylor CUT
    RB Danny Woodhead Re-Sign


    Defense
    DE Gerard Warren CUT
    DT Darryl Richard CUT
    DT Kade Weston Re-Sign
    CB Kyle Arrington Re-Sign
    LB Tracy White CUT
    S Josh Barrett CUT
    S Sergio Brown Re-Sign
    S Bret Lockett CUT
    S Brandon McGowan CUT
    S Jarrod Page[/QUOTE] CUT

    We have 9 picks in the 2011 draft, plus compensatory picks for Ben Watson (could be as high as a 5th) and Jarvis Green. I'd like to see them be more active in Free Agency now that the cap situation won't be so hazy.
  28. Raymond

    Raymond Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,226
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    Let me guess. His comments 5 months ago hurt your feelings?

    If you don't want the Manster back......I'm at a loss.
  29. jsull87

    jsull87 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Look if maknins wants out... tag n trade

    If he doesn't i honestly think he is worth top 3 guard money he is a solid pro bowler at the position as his play since he has been back has proven, he is liked by the locker room. So either option is fine by me i think it's really down to what mankins wants
  30. fester

    fester Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Have you ever seen an MBA feeding frenzy at any of the major consulting firms and/or Wall Street banks? Or during the tech booms, the January raids on the MIT, Stanford, and Carnegie Mellon computer science departments?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page