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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Turk, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. Turk

    Turk Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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  2. atomdomb

    atomdomb Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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  3. Turk

    Turk Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    When did I say that I wanted to protect / coddle or use one kind word about Hamas?
    If you had paid the slightest attention, you would have noticed that I have called them "terrorists" that do not represent the Palestinians or have the Palestinians' best interest in mind, on many occasions.

    I shared this commentary because it represents the old school MidWest Republican and not necessarily my way of thinking but absolutely respectworthy.
    That was the old Republican Party which has now become a big corporation, religious zealot cesspool.

    Lastly, what does this article have to do with Hamas or Israel, anyway?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  4. atomdomb

    atomdomb Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Sorry, after you lumped in the heroic pilots of the Enola Gay with Hamas, I thought for sure you must like them. My mistake.
     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  6. Turk

    Turk Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Apology accepted.

    As to WWII, the massive destruction that we intentionally caused on the civilian population of Japan is the very definition of terrorism as I do not buy into "the necessary killing of the innocent to save lives" no matter who the perpetrator may be or what he may be wearing, ski masks or military uniforms.
    I am against the killing of children by anyone, for any reason.
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The 40's were a lifetime away dude. What was acceptable, or done then, isn't necessarily done now. You can't look back 60 years, and criticize the dropping of those bombs, with todays eyes. I don't think anyone is over joyed that those nukes were dropped, but I do think people understand the need for them to be. Acts like that are what push mankind to take a step back, and consider the consequences of our actions. Were those nuclear drops a good thing? No. Were they necessary? Under the circumstances of those times, I think so.
     
  8. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I got as far as the second line....

    Realized the author was unaware of the passage of Amendment XXVII in 1992 and stopped reading.
     
  9. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Or maybe she is aware of it and reads it to mean that Congress still sets their own pay, just that now there has to be an intervening election before it goes into effect. Doesn't that mean they still vote for their own raises? Not saying I agree with her because its pretty clear in the Constitution that Congress is responsible for budgeting, but her idea is still valid even after passage of XXVII.

    This lady is pretty awesome, I like her style.
     
  10. atomdomb

    atomdomb Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I agree that killing of children is terrible, but mull this over. Lets say we had a time machine and you and I could go back to the "pushing of the button" by Truman. As we stood there with the possibility of killing tens of thousands of Japanese children or saving the lives of our grandfathers that were fighting in the war, I am sure I would push the button.
     
  11. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Maybe more importantly its also the difference between 2 nation states at war and one nation state being "terrorized" by rogue elements without specific national allegiance.

    In the specific case of Japan they were warned of impending destruction by the Potsdam declaration, and chose to ignore the warning. I forget if they were warned again before Hiroshima, but I know they were before Nagasaki.

    And on top of that there's the issue of the technology available at the time and justification for the action. There were no precision bombs in those days, and the only effective way to be sure of hitting your targets was to canvas the area. In the case of WWII Hiroshima was home to much military activity, and you can argue that doing things like shutting down the power grid and supply depots that existed in Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were a necessary first step in softening the target for a possible invasion.
     
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Different era, different tactics. They carpet bombed cities during those days, and it was part of war. In WWI they used gas, and eventually that was considered a no-no the second time around. Post WW II, no one has used nukes, and it's no surprise as to why. We've reached the point where underwear on an inmates head is sacrelage.
     
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Anyone here really think it's OK to, "Have a computer program that cross checks Social Security numbers with fingerprints to stop fraud on many fronts. Use it on voter registration, too."?

    Her other points were decent, though, but nothing earth-shattering. You can forget about Congress passing anything that takes money out of their podckets. Term limits won't happen. Americans don't want it or they would take care of it at the polls. They don't. Honest government isn't as important to most voters as long as their Congressmen are bringing home the "bacon" or, in other words: "Pork me!".
     
  14. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    I would be interested to know what age you are. sometimes its hard to put into perspective what we were facing in 1945. Im not saying ive ever been 100% convinced, but as time goes by and read and see more, the less critical I am regarding Truman and his actions.

    And if you ever watched the LBJ "American Experience", while it doesnt justify our staying in Vietnam, it does increase my compassion for the choice LBJ made to go escalate when he did.

    time makes life a little less black and white.
     
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    You serious?
     
  16. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    uh-oh.

    Im saying I have more compassion for the situation as it stood and the no-win situations at the time of the decision.

    let me be clear, I dont AGREE with his decision, and I think his not getting us out when it was clear it was a disaster because he didnt want to look like a coward was criminal, much like W.

    anyway, lets not hijack the the thread with this or start a huge Vietnam debate that we both probably are on the same side on anyway.
     
  17. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think what she was trying to say was stop identity theft by coupling your SSN with another metric, like fingerprints for example, and to stop voter fraud in the same manner. That I do not have a problem with.

    You're right on about the rest of it though, people (myself included) like to complain about government but when it comes down to it don't really do anything to fix it.
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    It's akin to Floridian Cuban's, and their younger generation, who is american born. The older generation saw first hand, and experienced life under the Castro's, and communism, and therefore have a hard line approach toward national relations. The younger generation, because they only know PS3's, Nurger King, and HBO On Demand, do not. Being old enough to remember the Cold War, life without cell phones, a remote control for the TV, a video game console, or when MTV was actually about music, I can notice the ideological difference in perspective, from the newer generation, that's had it all.
     
  19. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  20. Turk

    Turk Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I am 49 years old, and at a loss as to what that has to do with the subject matter or my opinion, frankly. I am at even more of a loss at your approval of LBJ's choice to escalate at what has been proven from every conceivable angle to be a huge mistake, not to mention the number of lives lost.

    Do not think for one second that the effects of such destruction were not only considered but counted on, by our military and our leaders. Same goes for the rest of the countries that utilized the very same tactic. Terrorizing the civilian population by extreme measures of destruction was not an American invention, by any means. We just took it to another extreme which I hope will never be repeated.

    I do agree however that as the years of youth sail by, the scenery takes more and more of a grayish color, different shades mind you, but still gray, with black and white still existing but only at the very edges of the scenery.

    Can you imagine just looking at the world from way out in space, and watching us destroy the heck out of each other and the only earth that we have? The earth that is such a wonderful and beautiful gift.
    If you are a believer and you claim to be, how can you agree to the killing of fellow human beings (friends that we have not met yet) and the destruction of the earth, God's gift to us, for whatever reason?
    Does it not say in every Holy Book that God loves those who save a life and has a special hell for those who take one?
    Now, that is as black and white as it gets, no matter what one's age may be.

    Finally, since you seem to be in a movie mood, may I suggest "Why we fight"?
    Now, that is an eye opener.

    But I regress.
    This was a thread on a commentary by an older lady who expressed herself clearly and honestly, representing what used to be the old-school MidWest Republican approach. I did not post it because I agreed with every single comment but because I respect that real Republican style, and if there is any hope for the Republican Party's future, she certainly stated what the style and approach needs to be. No nonsense, self reliant, hard working, neighborly and charitable, the core of us all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009

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