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Yet even more evidence they willingly lied

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    National Intel Director: Bush Admin. Manipulated Iraq Intel ‘Because They Didn’t Like The Answers’

    In Stephen Hayes’s upcoming biography on Dick Cheney, he writes that the current Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell appears to side with “those who believe that the administration manipulated intelligence on Iraq for political purposes before the 2003 invasion.”

    McConnell reportedly said he had “serious reservations” when asked by President Bush to become the DNI because of the Pentagon’s manipulation of intelligence in the lead up to the Iraq war. Today, Meet the Press host Tim Russert previewed the relevant portion of the book:

    McConnell was honored to be asked [to be DNI], but he had serious reservations. He had been unimpressed with many aspects of the Bush administration and its conduct of the war on terror, particularly what he felt was a politicized use of intelligence in the lead-up to the Iraq war. […]

    “My sense of it is their political faith and convictions influenced how they took information and interpreted [it], how they picked up and interpreted outside events. … I’ve read much more about the current set of players and they did set up a whole new interpretation because they didn’t like the answers. They’ve gotten results that in my view now have been disastrous,” [McConnell said].​
    Watch it:


    McConnell decried the “secondary unit” established within the Pentagon to “reinterpret information” prior to the war. An internal Pentagon investigation released in February revealed that former Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith utilized the Counter-Terrorism Evaluation Group within the Pentagon to create and promote false links between Iraq and al Qaeda.

    Specifically, then-Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz “asked Feith’s analysts to ignore the intelligence community’s belief that the militant Islamist al-Qaida and Saddam’s secular dictatorship were unlikely allies.” Subsequently, Feith “disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and al-Qaida relationship…to senior decision-makers.”

    McConnell stated, “The way you do intelligence is all sources considered. You have to factor one issue against the other and balance it.” Four years later, this administration is still reinterpreting intelligence.
  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Saw him (McConnell) Sunday morning on Meet the Press?. He said he was asked to join Bushwacks team but declined. He reinterated what you have posted. He said he couldn't be part of anything like that. I.E lieing he was very blunt about it.He never pulled any punches.

    Something on Fieth,after working with him early on Gen Tommy Franks said to someone ( I forget the name) that "Fieth was the dumbest mother f!@#er on the face of the earth"
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  3. Fogbuster

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    Utterly pointless. Just because bin Laden and Saddam weren't sharing hookah's together doesn't mean they each didn't have their own independent goals of taking down the U.S./West. Saddam stone-walled the UN for five years, wouldn't let Hans Blix and the weapons inspectors in, as per the UN resolution. This was AFTER Saddam invaded a sovereign Kuwait and a sovereign Iran, and after he had used chemical weapons (poison gas) on Kurdish women and children.

    Are you obsessed with "getting Bush" or what??



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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  4. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    So your saying you condone just makeing something up that helped lead to the death of thousands of people. Because someone(Bush) thinks God talks to him personaly.And therefore the end justify the means. God talked to me today, while I was in the shower. He said "I don't like people useing my name for political gain" He also told me that he didn't like people useing religion to spread hate. I thought that was a pretty reasonable request.
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    I find it striking that you displayed perhaps 2 or 3 days of rationale and humility before you went away for a week... And now, unsolicited, you're right back to being... well... you... this could have been handled maturely, and discussed civilly, but instead, you have to issue an assault on my personal character...

    Does everything need to be dumbed down to such a simple explanation for your narrow mind to understand? That we all somehow just want to "get Bush," so we're just making things up? No, we want the entire administration held accountable after 4 years of profound lies and willful alteration of intelligence reports... Do you see the difference? It's clear to me... Not you?

    Heck, I liked George Bush... Not enough to vote for him... I didn't think he personally had anything to do with Katherine Harris throwing out 87,000 black votes in Florida in 2000, but I didn't blame him for that... But what we have since 9/11 is a track record of failure after failure, assessment after assessment of being wrong, altered, inaccurate and so on... If Rod Rust kept churning out 2-14 seasons, would we all just be "out to get Rod?"... Should Rod have just gotten more time? ... At what point do people like you hold your leaders accountable for wonton dishonesty and frightening ideology and jingoism? Oh wait, don't answer that...

    Utterly pointless? Saddam and Osama both want the destruction of the west?... that's excellent... Hey, here's an analogy... You and Transfat (Qui) don't like me... Should I then go after Qui for your annoying sermons? Should I go after you for Qui's torret-laiden hissy fits? Should I pretend you and Transfat are sharing material to use against me? ... No... I'll deal with you each individually... There's more at stake than Saddam and Osama's dislike for America... Hans Blix, David Kay and Scott Ritter were turned away from finishing by coalition authority far, FAR more than they were turned away by Saddam... The weapons inspectors never finished their work, and Boy King rushed to bombing the crap out of block after block of innocent civilians... 10,000 dead in the initial air campaign alone... All based on lies... Not mistakes, but willfully altered intelligence reports and assessments... And that is documented...

    As to your final point, a card you and your ilk so often play, what do Saddam's choices of 27 and 17 years ago have to do with today? If they were so egregious in 1980, why didn't we do anything about it? Don't use the joker card in a game of poker... It's inadmissable... If those were the reasons, then the American people and the U.N. should have been presented with those reasons and those reasons alone when the vote was cast... When all your stated reasons fall flat, you can't just make it all OK by pointing out something he did 17 years ago, with our weaponry, as your main point of rationale...

    To sum up... I'm not making things up because i want to "get Bush"... Bush needs to be "gotten" for the things he and his cohorts have DONE...
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  6. Fogbuster

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    I'm saying that if someone like Saddam, with a well-known record for launching murderous campaigns against those he perceives as "his enemies", does not allow the UN into his nation to fulfill a UN sponsored resolution -- that's a vote taken by the whole body of the UN, by the way -- then he leaves himself open to what happened.

    I'm on record as saying I am against this entire mis-guided incursion, but I am sick to death of those who want to blow things way out of proportion purely to fulfill their political goal, which is simply: to gain power.

    Why can't we talk about this like adults, go behind closed doors if we have to -- as has been done so often in the past -- hear each other out, and come to a gentlemen's agreement as to what we will do together as a nation. Nowadays, it's like on the far-left wingers have the "right" to their agenda and everybody else is just "part of the problem". Ain't so. The left has as many -- if not more -- skeletons in their closet as the right. Why isn't anybody dragging John Kennedy's and Lyndon Johnson's names throught the coals over the 60,000 Americans killed in Vietnam??? THEY are the ones who got us into that mess.

    If you go after Bush for Iraq, you need to also go after Kennedy and Johnson for Vietnam. Might as well go after Truman for Korea, while we're at it. And Roosevelt for WWII. Etc, etc, etc. Lying is part and parcel of going to war. Newspaper "giant" William Randolf Hearst once said: "You supply the photos and I'll provide you the war." Everybody lies to start wars. Everybody.



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  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Wow. Talk about hissies. How much coffee have you had already?? I've only had one small tea and that was like 7 hours ago. Chill, guy, life is short.

    And, man, you take things so personally!! "Assaulting your personal character"!! Where do you see that?? Because I said you are obsessed with Bush? Well, you ARE! Oh, sure, you want to drag Cheney and the entire administration down -- that would be your greatest Vendetta coup, but you know what they say about woulda, shoulda, couldas, don't you? -- anyway, your disdain for "Boy King", as you call him, is palpable. It's the definition of obsession.

    Anyway, the issue of "lying" is something I just addressed in my previous post: EVERYBODY does it, including your "sacred, holy, above-it-all" press. William Randolph Hearst, forebear of the infamous Patty Hearst -- kidnapped-victim-turned-revolutionary and predecessor to the female lead in "Natural Born Killers" -- said it all: "give me the photos and I'll give you the war." Oh, yes, the power of the press. There was even a James Bond movie with the villain a media mogul, gone exceptionally mad.

    Wars are ALWAYS launched on the basis of cooked reports. Always have been, and always will be. How else are you going to get regular civilized folks away from their jobs and onto a battlefield, as uncivilized a place as there ever could be? Lies, distortions, spin, and twists are part and parcel of any war.

    So if you want Bush, you'd better also want Kennedy and Johnson for spinning us on Vietnam, Truman for leading us into Korea, Roosevelt for allowing us into WWII, and Woodrow Wilson for WWI (hey, lookee here, they're all DEMOCRATS!!! Whadya know?!!).

    Unless, you really *are* obsessed with Bush, "Boy King", as you call him.



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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  8. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    This pretty much is just another confirmation that the intelligence community has turned on Bush. You can spin it, justify it or whatever, but the bottom line is that the CIC and his intelligence assets are NOT ON THE SAME PAGE.

    ..... and that my friends is not very good for our county. Of course, there are those that might derive great pleasure from this, the most astute among you will understand what a profoundly alarming problem this will present in everything we attempt to do.
  9. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    yeah, ummm... but, they're all dead... tough to want to "get" a dead guy...

    however, if i knew any of them lied us into an imperialistic occupation that has taken the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent people? sorry, but yes, i would want them held accountable and those lies exposed....
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    FOG, First I'm not just going after Bush ,he's not the brains of this outfit he's the guy with the power to implament actions based on ironious information .We'er in real trouble when a group of people who are suppose to interprit intel.objectivley spin it to suit their ambitions. How can the other branch of government make informed decisions with information thats been twisted,and falsafied to fit an agenda.

    The other presidents you mentioed never came close to tailoring inteligance to suit their needs as this administration. 1.Roosavelt, declared war after Pearl Harber,then the Germans declaered war on us. What did he lie about.
    2.Truman was going by the mandate of the U.N as far as Korea goes, He fired MacArther when MacArther wanted to nuke China. 3.Under Kennedy the Vietnam war started out with a few advisors and grew,
    4.Johnson used the Golf of Tonken to escolate the war ,a war we were already in. This pales in comparison to what went on four years ago.
    I'M glad you threw in Wilson the Lusitania was no lie, it realy was torpeded, and recently it's been proven that she was carrying amunition.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Well, do a little digging amongst the microfische. They said exactly the same things about Johnson during Vietnam. Exacly the same thing: "imperialist warmonger!! Liar!! Hypocrite!! Killing innocent babies and children!! " Do some homework and you will. Start with the "days of rage" at the Dem president convention in Chicage, 1968. Listen to the music groups "Chicago"'s song, "The Whole World is Watching".

    Been said and done before. What you're is simply a redux.


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  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    spare me your history lesson... i'm well aware of LBJ's legacy... if i was alive then, i would have loathed him too -- another war monger from Texas, what a surprise...

    so really, wtf is your point?...

    anyhoo...

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  13. Fogbuster

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    You need to do some research on the protests against the Vietnam war. The way Lyndon Johnson was excoriated makes what Bush is going through seem like pancakes. But, as they say, it's the thought that counts. Check out the 1968 "Days of Rage", when the streets were filled with hoards of "mobilized" youth; happened all across the country. Biggest mass mobilization of American youth in America's history. Sure, a lot of bad things happened that year, but taking to the streets didn't help things one bit; only made things worse, imho.

    The Democrat presidential convention, held in Chicago, was a total zoo, utter chaos, all carefully choreographed, of course: zonked out kids rioting everywhere, the cops cracking their heads, Mayor Daley leading the charge. Quite a spectacle. The music group, "Chicago", recorded "The Whole World is Watching". Check it out. Chicago was my favorite sound back then.

    Point is, the rioters then, painstakingly coached and whipped into a zealous, crazed frenzy as they were -- something that rings eerily familiar with what the current fanatical Islamists are doing today -- were using the "French Revolution" approach to solving the grievances in their hearts: off with the pigs, fire up that guillotine and let it rip. That's not how the U.S. does things; it's not how civilized people do it.

    Today's campaign against Bush is not so very different. The same whipped up emotional "indignation" (self-righteous as it is) is being layed onto Bush and company, and though they are clearly not as pure as the driven snow -- who is?? -- these heated displays of "how righteous we are for being against the evil Geo Bush, Dick Cheney, and Co." is just another round of self-important one-upsmanship. It's crude, it's lewd, and it's rude. It's boring as hell because it's wrong as hell, though it is potentially dangerous, so it bears careful watching.

    Other than that, I agree with a lot you have to say!


    :D


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  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    America is free
    Americans eat well
    Americans have nice homes (they own)
    Americans can call their President an a$s hole and live
    Americans own boats and campers
    Americans can make millions trashing America (Michael Moore)
    Americans will immediately start attacking their new president the day after he is elected.
    America is Free Free Free Free
    THAT'S WHY THE REST OF THE WORLD HATES US

    MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT HATE US WANT TO LIVE HERE

    HOW MANY PEOPLE EACH YEAR GET CAUGHT SNEAKING OUT OF AMERICA INTO CUBA OR MEXICO

    WE NOW HAVE A NEW ENEMY, A RELIGION THAT WANTS US ALL DEAD INCLUDING OUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

    WE HAVE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN OUR GOVERNMENT WHO WANT US TO SURRENDER TO THAT RELIGION, THEY ARE CALLED "DEMOCRATS".
    :bricks:
  15. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    so i ask you to spare me the history lesson, considering i more than likely know more about American history than you... and instead you come back with more condescension...

    then , you start out by saying it makes Bush's protests look like pancakes, and then follow up a few paragraphs later suggesting the campaign against Bush is not so different... cool.... convincing argument you got there... if you're talking about scale, that was merely because there was a draft back then... i'd dare say that if your God Squad president had a draft today to execute his occupation of a people who never attacked us, it would be very messy for Boy King today...

    but, again, what is your ultimate point? that you made a few words rhyme at the end?

    the protests against this war-mongering president from Texas are beyond legitimate... and his legacy of lunacy is tarnished forever... this all has nothing to do with politics... especially considering this president doesn't represent the core Republican values of small government nor responsible spending... can't think of a single thing this man has done as a positive for our nation... and please don't embarrass yourself by suggesting "fries with that?" is a statement about our "healthy" unemployment rate...
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  16. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Them clams was good, I see.


    :D


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  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Yeah, you know your history real well. When you finish Googling for "Days of Rage", the "Chicago Seven", Abby Hoffman, the '68 Dem Convention, and the riots of '68, you be sure to tell us all about it.

    That *you* would find nothing good with Bush is not surprising in the least. Speaks more about you than him. Whatever Bush's legacy will be, I know we haven't had any more 9/11s since 2001 (six years: that's better than what Clinton could say), we haven't had any more restaurants in Bali or Düsseldorf blown to smithereens, no night clubs -- or gambling emporiums (good for you, eh?) -- reduced to flaming rubble. His way has been crude, but you gotta hand it to him, he's been effective.

    "You say you want a revolution, well-l-l you know, you better get your head on right."

    "Condescension", indeed. He who smelt it, dealt it.



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  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    i better get my head on "right?"... lol... a little subconcious slip there, god party partisan guy?

    nah, prolly completely concious...
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  19. DarrylS

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    Comparing what happened in Chicago and what is happening to Bush is like comparing grapefruit to raisins.. there is little commonality... Chicago was a converging of a lot of anger and distrust by several coincidental movements, Civil Rights, Anti War, the assassinations of King and Kennedy, teh Kent State Fiasco and the beginning of feminism.. throw in some crappy drugs and a ton of kids afraid of being drafted and you have the the beginning of Anarchy.. as much as many people want to believe it there was little choreography there is some anecdotal evidence of KGB involvement in the antiwar movement, but it has never been proven and denied by most involved. If anything socialist movements in general converged with everything happening there. There is a tendency to look at Chicago, the peace movement of the 60's rather simplistically, however it was a very complicated issue and from what I saw as a vehement anti war person, was that for the first time we as a group realized that our government was capable of lying and sending our friends to a foreign country to die for their self serving interests. It was a huge eyeopenener, the KGB was never spoken of in anything I attended or ever heard of.

    Take one example, there used to be in our newspaper a little box on the bottom that listed how many americans died during the week and how many NVA died during the same period. It would show something like 89 US soldiers killed and then 1,449 NVA killed during the same period. That alone backfired on the war mongers and backfired in a way that was incomprehensible to the masters of war. That coupled with a bunch of other stuff the naked little girl running down the street after being effected by Napalm, the executions on the nightly news, the Calley atrocities.. on and on.. it was truly the end of the age of innocence for most of us and hit us all with a very hard reality bi...tch slap right in the face. Personally I realized that war, for the most part, can bring out the worse in people and should be avoided at all costs, there are very few honorable wars.. WWII was one, but for the most part war is what it is, men shooting at men, and a lot of innocents getting killed in the cross fire.

    I get upset when people try to interpret what happened in Viet Nam by reading a text or a scholarly publication, not much can really capture what happened in this country at that tumultous time. History is not just the written word..it was also about the music, as trite as that sounds, it was a integral part and very important one. Woodstock and the songs of Jim Morrison, CSN&Y, Country Joe, Joan Baez, Judi Collins, Bob Dylan and many others kept us going and I still spend a lot of time listening to a lot to that as uncomfortable it is to remember the conflict, the passion is something that I miss and may never be replicated as long as I live.

    Fast forward to this conflict, it is not effecting the pocketbooks or lives of most of mainstream america, many folks in the investor class are getting super rich and to many of the power brokers it is just a high stakes video game for the ADD distractable nation.. kids are dying, but as important the innocents, the women and children of Iraq are effected most. If anything this whole thing has been packaged and choreographed quite poorly by the administration, and those of us who lived in the Viet Nam Conflict can see right through these guys.. it is what it is a bunch of soldiers shooting and killing other soldiers, with many innocents, the women and children being effected the most while the masters of war are getting very wealthy.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    As long as it's just bombs in Iraq, Pakistan and Palestine you're OK with it, huh? As long as Germany and tha US don't get bombed. You don't think there's AQ in the US right now?...oh, that's right...you don't even live here anymore.

    You think it's about keeping score - how mony years can we go without a terrorist attack - Clinton vs. Bush - never mind out kids in Iraq getting blown apart and killed. I guess it's OK as long as you're safe in Latvia or Lithuania or wherever you are safe and sound. No chance of you getting hit. You're a cheerleader of the worst kind sitting way up in the endzone bleachers so far up you can barely make out the uniforms Keep beating that war drum, tough guy. I'm sure all your little Estonian friends'kids won't get hurt.

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