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* Ye 2011 Mock Draft Thread!! *


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Take a look at Harris on youtube and see what you think. He's well spoken and his cover ability is really nice. Since Peterson is off our radar because of Oakland's winning ways, I decided to look up the other corners in comparison.

Prince-Not a huge fan. Didn't see enough cover ability in the tape I watched. The worst of it was versus Blackmon (a legit NFL receiver, and another well spoken player) where he was turned around often and couldn't keep pace.

Janoris-Very fast and able to get to the ball quickly. Misses a bunch of tackles! Not a good option for us due to over aggressiveness and a gambling nature. Allowed several big plays in the ten minutes of tape I saw.

Harris-Very solid. Ran very well with his assignments and turned his head to track the ball consistently. Based on walter's page, is the fastest of the CBs, and that was reciprocated in what I saw. Listening to his interviews made his on field performance shine even more. This is a Pats type of player.

I just looked at some clips of Harris, I like him. The big question is value, does grabbing Harris prevent us from getting other players who could have more of an impact? In general I'm going to build the lines first, and I totally want a nasty DE like Dareus, who already has a few years experience in our defense. The game is won and lost at the line of scrimage.

That being said, in BB we trust, I wouldnt be angry if he grabbed Harris in the first.

Also, if someone's name is "Prince" I already dislike him.
 
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I just looked at some clips of Harris, I like him. The big question is value, does grabbing Harris prevent us from getting other players who could have more of an impact? In general I'm going to build the lines first, and I totally want a nasty DE like Dareus, who already has a few years experience in our defense. The game is won and lost at the line of scrimage.

That being said, in BB we trust, I wouldnt be angry if he grabbed Harris in the first.

Also, if someone's name is "Prince" I already dislike him.

Will Dareus be available? He could fall as he has been living off his bowl performance for awhile-minor injuries masking his less than dominant play early on. I suspect he goes top ten.

Harris could go anywhere from from the teens to the end of the 1st round IMO. He hasn't gotten anywhere near the exposure that PP and PA have gotten.

Having said that, I'll use that logic and say Dareus and Harris 1st round and an OLB with pick 33. Good?
 
One of the things I look at when thinking about which of these high level prospects to draft is their interviews. That's one reason I like possible Patriots' picks like Brandon Harris, Ryan Kerrigan, and JJ Watt. Those guys are intelligent and well spoken. I believe all three were team captains. Why not make those our first three choices this coming draft?

Well, I do believe BB values character and intelligence very highly, as do I, but it all comes down to impact: does their character make them a higher value pick than the other players available? If the other players have similar abilities, then yes, if the other guys available have HoF talent but aren't leaders nor cancers, then they might have more total impact and would therefore be a better choice. However if a guy has never before seem, out of this world talent, but is a criminally inclined diva I'll pass on him.

So far I like what I've seen out of Kerrigan and Watt, havent looked into Harris that much yet.

Take a look at Harris on youtube and see what you think. He's well spoken and his cover ability is really nice. Since Peterson is off our radar because of Oakland's winning ways, I decided to look up the other corners in comparison.

Prince-Not a huge fan. Didn't see enough cover ability in the tape I watched. The worst of it was versus Blackmon (a legit NFL receiver, and another well spoken player) where he was turned around often and couldn't keep pace.

Janoris-Very fast and able to get to the ball quickly. Misses a bunch of tackles! Not a good option for us due to over aggressiveness and a gambling nature. Allowed several big plays in the ten minutes of tape I saw.

Harris-Very solid. Ran very well with his assignments and turned his head to track the ball consistently. Based on walter's page, is the fastest of the CBs, and that was reciprocated in what I saw. Listening to his interviews made his on field performance shine even more. This is a Pats type of player.

I just looked at some clips of Harris, I like him. The big question is value, does grabbing Harris prevent us from getting other players who could have more of an impact? In general I'm going to build the lines first, and I totally want a nasty DE like Dareus, who already has a few years experience in our defense. The game is won and lost at the line of scrimage.

That being said, in BB we trust, I wouldnt be angry if he grabbed Harris in the first.

Also, if someone's name is "Prince" I already dislike him.

Will Dareus be available? He could fall as he has been living off his bowl performance for awhile-minor injuries masking his less than dominant play early on. I suspect he goes top ten.

Harris could go anywhere from from the teens to the end of the 1st round IMO. He hasn't gotten anywhere near the exposure that PP and PA have gotten.

Having said that, I'll use that logic and say Dareus and Harris 1st round and an OLB with pick 33. Good?

While I don't have any particular desire to draft a Corner any time soon, I certainly enjoy the refreshing and cerebral approach, Brother Zois.

My admiration for Brother Snake is well documented, so I'll only add: I HEARTILY approve of your disdain for anyone named "Prince"!! Hah!! :D
 
I like Bodden quite a bit and was happy with his performance for us the previous year. Butler still needs time. His first year was better than anything he has shown since, and that's a damper for me. Hopefully he can get things together. He might end up being a good nickel for us.

Getting a guy like Harris would give us two solid cover corners to grow together over the years. We also can get the other spots we need more later.
 
I like Bodden quite a bit and was happy with his performance for us the previous year. Butler still needs time. His first year was better than anything he has shown since, and that's a damper for me. Hopefully he can get things together. He might end up being a good nickel for us.

Getting a guy like Harris would give us two solid cover corners to grow together over the years. We also can get the other spots we need more later.

I agree.. it also gives BB flexibility for different sub packages.. I could see taking Harris with our first pick and grabbing Justin Houston with pick #32.. I also think they will grab another Grizzly with one of the second round picks.. a guy like Phil Taylor comes to mind..
 
I also think they will grab another Grizzly with one of the second round picks.. a guy like Phil Taylor comes to mind...

Oh man do I like THAT idea!! :rocker:

Nose Tackles ~ as I am annoyingly fond of saying ~ are the QuarterBacks of the Defense: You need to have at LEAST two Starting Caliber Nose Tackles. Gerard Warren is absolutely AWESOME, but I don't want him taking all those snaps at Nose Guard if Vince Wilfork is out for any length of time during the Play Offs:

The idea isn't to compete.

The idea is to win. :cool:

I'd love to see us take a long look at Phil Taylor or Kenrick Ellis...

And I wouldn't mind seeing them sniff around a couple of my 8th Rounder Sleepers, either: Alemeda TaAmu or Harold Ayodele!!
 
Off topic maybe?

I have a question, what do you guys think of having/drafting a mobile quarterback? Seeing that this is the new Era that the NFL is heading towards to. Someone like Michael Vick, Joe Webb, Tim Tebow? Do you think a mobile quarterback will fit into our system, you have to remember, BB and TB are not going to be here forever.
 
Off topic maybe?

I have a question, what do you guys think of having/drafting a mobile quarterback? Seeing that this is the new Era that the NFL is heading towards to. Someone like Michael Vick, Joe Webb, Tim Tebow? Do you think a mobile quarterback will fit into our system, you have to remember, BB and TB are not going to be here forever.

Well, in my view, we've been hearing that "this is the new era" since Fran Tarkenton starting running around, 50 years ago.

And, yet: The Field Generals who stay in the Pocket and take command of things have stuck it to Fran and the others virtually every single one of those 50 years.

Steve Young got a ring in 1994...Anyone else??

All set on mobile QuarterBacks, Bro. ;)
 
Off topic maybe?

I have a question, what do you guys think of having/drafting a mobile quarterback? Seeing that this is the new Era that the NFL is heading towards to. Someone like Michael Vick, Joe Webb, Tim Tebow? Do you think a mobile quarterback will fit into our system, you have to remember, BB and TB are not going to be here forever.

As Brother Grid has indicated, the ability to pass from the pocket is where it's at. I don't have a problem with a QB who has good legs and can take off when appropriate, a la Aaron Rodgers, but I dont want to run option plays with my franchise QB. That being said, I have no problem running an option play with a receiver who played QB in college, like a Brad Smith/Kordell Stewart.
 
60 Man Roster

This is how I see the 2011 Patriots 60 Man Roster projecting, in My Dream Scenario:

***

Pro Bowl Caliber Talent
Starting Caliber Talent
Scrapper


***

LT Tyron Smith ~ ST Steve Maneri
LG Logan Mankins ~ SG Dan Connolly
OC Mike Brewster ~ C/G Rich Ohrenberger
RG Ben Ijalana ~ G/T Nick Kaczur
RT Sebastian Vollmer ~ T/G Quinn Ojinnaka

QB Tom Brady ~ QB Brian Hoyer ~ QB Greg McElroy

FB Owen Marecic
HB Roy Helu ~ HB Bilal Powell
TB Danny WoodHead
~ TB DaRel Scott

OE Alge Crumpler ~ OE Lee Smith

WB Aaron Hernandez
WB Rob Gronkowski


SE Deion Branch ~ WR Taylor Price
SR Wes Welker ~ WR Julian Edelman
OF Brandon Tate

K Steve Gostkowski
P Zoltan Mesko

S Matt Katula
G Matt Slater


~~~

LE Ty Warren ~ E/T Ron Brace
NT Vince Wilfork ~ NT Phil Taylor ~ NT Myron Pryor
RE JJ Watt ~ DE Brandon Deaderick ~ E/T Gerald Warren

LF Jermaine Cunningham ~ LF Ryan Kerrigan ~ LF Ryan Winterswyk
MF Brandon Spikes ~ MF Rob Ninkovich
MF Jerrod Mayo ~ MF Gary Guyton ~ MF Dan Fletcher
RF Aldon Smith ~ RF Steven Friday ~ RF Cliff Matthews

LC Devin McCourty ~ CB Jon Wilhite
SS Pat Chung ~ SS Sergio Brown
FS Brandon Meriweather ~ FS Mark LeGree
RC Leigh Bodden ~ RC Kyle Arrington

NB Darius Butler
NS James Sanders
I'll bite.

Projecting the 2011 Patriots Roster

Trades
Darius Butler – 2011 4th round pick
Ron Brace – 2011 4th round pick
Brandon Meriweather – 2012 2nd round pick
James Sanders – 2012 4th round pick
Mike Wright – 2013 6th pick
Tully Banta-Cain – 2013 7th round pick
Ryan Wendell (sign and trade) – 2013 7th round pick

Retiring
Stephen Neal (IR)

Resign
Logan Mankins (franchise if necessary)
Matt Light
Kyle Arrington
Kevin Faulk
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Tracy White
Bret Lockett
Jarrad Page
Josh Barrett
Darryl Richard
Ryan Wendell

Released/Not Resigned
Gerard Warren
Shayne Graham
Brandon McGowan (IR)
Mark LeVoir
Quinn Ojinnaka
Sammy Morris
Thomas Clayton
Landon Cohen
Darnell Jenkins (IR)
Ross Ventrone (PS)
Thomas Austin (PS)
Carson Butler (PS)
Thad Turner (PS)

Roster
QB-3 Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer and Jonathan Crompton (PS) – need another developmental type

RB-4 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Kevin Faulk (IR) and Eric Kettani (Reserve/Military) - use 3rd or 4th round pick for big RB

TE-3 Alge Crumpler, Rob Gronkowski and HB Aaron Hernandez – need a developmental type

WR-5 Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman and Taylor Price – need 2 developmental types

T-3 Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer and Steve Maneri (PS) - use 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick
G-3 Logan Mankins, Dan Connolly and G/T Nick Kaczur (IR) - need 2 developmental types
C-2 Dan Koppen, C/G Rich Ohrenberger - use 3rd or 4th round pick

DE-6 Ty Warren (IR), Brandon Deaderick, Eric Moore, Lorenzo Washington (PS) and Darryl Richard (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
NT-3 Vince Wilfork, Myron Pryor, Kade Weston (IR) and Kyle Love - use 3rd or 4th round pick

OLB-2 Jermaine Cunningham, Rob Ninkovich - use 2nd and 3rd round pick
ILB-4 Jerrod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Gary Guyton and Dan Fletcher

CB-5 Devin McCourty, Leigh Bodden (IR), Kyle Arrington, Tony Carter and Jonathan Wilhite (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
S-5 Pat Chung, Jarrad Page, Josh Barrett (IR), Bret Lockett (IR) and Sergio Brown - need a developmental type

K Steve Gostkowski (IR)
P Zoltan Mesko
LS Matt Katula
ST Matt Slater
ST Tracy White

Room for 7-10 rookies/FAs (assumes 3 new IRs in 2011)
 
I'll bite.

Projecting the 2011 Patriots Roster

Trades
Darius Butler – 2011 4th round pick
Ron Brace – 2011 4th round pick
Brandon Meriweather – 2012 2nd round pick
James Sanders – 2012 4th round pick
Mike Wright – 2013 6th pick
Tully Banta-Cain – 2013 7th round pick
Ryan Wendell (sign and trade) – 2013 7th round pick

Retiring
Stephen Neal (IR)

Resign
Logan Mankins (franchise if necessary)
Matt Light
Kyle Arrington
Kevin Faulk
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Tracy White
Bret Lockett
Jarrad Page
Josh Barrett
Darryl Richard
Ryan Wendell

Released/Not Resigned
Gerard Warren
Shayne Graham
Brandon McGowan (IR)
Mark LeVoir
Quinn Ojinnaka
Sammy Morris
Thomas Clayton
Landon Cohen
Darnell Jenkins (IR)
Ross Ventrone (PS)
Thomas Austin (PS)
Carson Butler (PS)
Thad Turner (PS)

Roster
QB-3 Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer and Jonathan Crompton (PS) – need another developmental type

RB-4 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Kevin Faulk (IR) and Eric Kettani (Reserve/Military) - use 3rd or 4th round pick for big RB

TE-3 Alge Crumpler, Rob Gronkowski and HB Aaron Hernandez – need a developmental type

WR-5 Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman and Taylor Price – need 2 developmental types

T-3 Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer and Steve Maneri (PS) - use 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick
G-3 Logan Mankins, Dan Connolly and G/T Nick Kaczur (IR) - need 2 developmental types
C-2 Dan Koppen, C/G Rich Ohrenberger - use 3rd or 4th round pick

DE-6 Ty Warren (IR), Brandon Deaderick, Eric Moore, Lorenzo Washington (PS) and Darryl Richard (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
NT-3 Vince Wilfork, Myron Pryor, Kade Weston (IR) and Kyle Love - use 3rd or 4th round pick

OLB-2 Jermaine Cunningham, Rob Ninkovich - use 2nd and 3rd round pick
ILB-4 Jerrod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Gary Guyton and Dan Fletcher

CB-5 Devin McCourty, Leigh Bodden (IR), Kyle Arrington, Tony Carter and Jonathan Wilhite (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
S-5 Pat Chung, Jarrad Page, Josh Barrett (IR), Bret Lockett (IR) and Sergio Brown - need a developmental type

K Steve Gostkowski (IR)
P Zoltan Mesko
LS Matt Katula
ST Matt Slater
ST Tracy White

Room for 7-10 rookies/FAs (assumes 3 new IRs in 2011)

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where.... My favorite 2 are trading sanders and merriweather ate the same time leaving one of our deepest positions with some veteran talent now paper thin. AlsNo trading a good developmental guard who started and played well last week for... Wait for it... A 2013 7th... Good trade. How in any way is that good for the pats? We coach him up then ship him for a 7th in 3 years when he plays for us now?

I don't usually like to dissuade mocks but this wasn't one you traded away veteran solid players on a 13-2 team and never mentioned who you'd replace them with. Also you let veteran key contributors on our dl this year Warren and wright walk
 
As Brother Grid has indicated, the ability to pass from the pocket is where it's at. I don't have a problem with a QB who has good legs and can take off when appropriate, a la Aaron Rodgers, but I dont want to run option plays with my franchise QB. That being said, I have no problem running an option play with a receiver who played QB in college, like a Brad Smith/Kordell Stewart.

VERY interesting. I've been stumbling around in the dark, myself, regarding some future ~ 5 to 10 years from now ~ notion of bring back a Four HorseMen kind of Offense...Good stuff. :cool:
 
I'll bite.

Projecting the 2011 Patriots Roster

Trades
Darius Butler – 2011 4th round pick
Ron Brace – 2011 4th round pick
Brandon Meriweather – 2012 2nd round pick
James Sanders – 2012 4th round pick
Mike Wright – 2013 6th pick
Tully Banta-Cain – 2013 7th round pick
Ryan Wendell (sign and trade) – 2013 7th round pick

Retiring
Stephen Neal (IR)

Resign
Logan Mankins (franchise if necessary)
Matt Light
Kyle Arrington
Kevin Faulk
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Tracy White
Bret Lockett
Jarrad Page
Josh Barrett
Darryl Richard
Ryan Wendell

Released/Not Resigned
Gerard Warren
Shayne Graham
Brandon McGowan (IR)
Mark LeVoir
Quinn Ojinnaka
Sammy Morris
Thomas Clayton
Landon Cohen
Darnell Jenkins (IR)
Ross Ventrone (PS)
Thomas Austin (PS)
Carson Butler (PS)
Thad Turner (PS)

Roster
QB-3 Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer and Jonathan Crompton (PS) – need another developmental type

RB-4 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Kevin Faulk (IR) and Eric Kettani (Reserve/Military) - use 3rd or 4th round pick for big RB

TE-3 Alge Crumpler, Rob Gronkowski and HB Aaron Hernandez – need a developmental type

WR-5 Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman and Taylor Price – need 2 developmental types

T-3 Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer and Steve Maneri (PS) - use 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick
G-3 Logan Mankins, Dan Connolly and G/T Nick Kaczur (IR) - need 2 developmental types
C-2 Dan Koppen, C/G Rich Ohrenberger - use 3rd or 4th round pick

DE-6 Ty Warren (IR), Brandon Deaderick, Eric Moore, Lorenzo Washington (PS) and Darryl Richard (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
NT-3 Vince Wilfork, Myron Pryor, Kade Weston (IR) and Kyle Love - use 3rd or 4th round pick

OLB-2 Jermaine Cunningham, Rob Ninkovich - use 2nd and 3rd round pick
ILB-4 Jerrod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Gary Guyton and Dan Fletcher

CB-5 Devin McCourty, Leigh Bodden (IR), Kyle Arrington, Tony Carter and Jonathan Wilhite (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
S-5 Pat Chung, Jarrad Page, Josh Barrett (IR), Bret Lockett (IR) and Sergio Brown - need a developmental type

K Steve Gostkowski (IR)
P Zoltan Mesko
LS Matt Katula
ST Matt Slater
ST Tracy White

Room for 7-10 rookies/FAs (assumes 3 new IRs in 2011)

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where.... My favorite 2 are trading sanders and merriweather ate the same time leaving one of our deepest positions with some veteran talent now paper thin. AlsNo trading a good developmental guard who started and played well last week for... Wait for it... A 2013 7th... Good trade. How in any way is that good for the pats? We coach him up then ship him for a 7th in 3 years when he plays for us now?

I don't usually like to dissuade mocks but this wasn't one you traded away veteran solid players on a 13-2 team and never mentioned who you'd replace them with. Also you let veteran key contributors on our dl this year Warren and wright walk

Well, I think he got a little aggressive, myself, but that is one of the more thoughtfull and creative posts I've seen. There is much I disagree with, including some of which you've referenced...But I'll gladly take ONE OutSide The Box post for FIFTY regurgitated citations of Standard Dogma. :cool:
 
Since we're doing a little draft trad'em, I'll throw my hat into the ring.

I was looking at what possibilities could open up by trading down from Oakland's pick (oh no! trading down!) to gain better advantage at the end of round one and the beginning of round two. Here's what I came up with:

Let's say Oakland's pick finds its best possible placement at #11 and Minnesota's does the same in the 3rd and becomes #77. Taking those picks into account and using only the first 4 rounds of this coming draft, and assuming the Pats pick at the end of each round, I'll move forward.

We would have picks:

11
32
33
64
77
96
128

Pick #11 is worth 1250 points on JJ's draft value chart. We trade that for #18 and #50 (one team's 1st and 2nd round pick this draft) which has a value of 1300. Roughly equal.

We then trade #18, whose value is 900, for #30 and #62, which equal 904 points. Roughly equal again.

Our picks so far:

30, 32, 33, 50, 62, 64, 77, 96, and 128

We then trade #62 and #64 (554 pts) for #34 (560 pts). Roughly equal again.

We also trade #50 and #77 (605 pts) for #31 (600 pts). Roughly equal again.

Our picks now:

30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 96, and 128

Five consecutive picks at the end of round one and the start of round two! How neat!

However, we then trade #31 and #128 for #29. Then we trade #30 and #96 for #24.

That leaves us with:

24, 29, 32, 33, and 34

At those spots we can get every position we need filled with top talent from the college ranks. I'm thinking Sherrod, Pouncey, Houston, Harris, and Watt.

What do you think guys?
 
Well, I think he got a little aggressive, myself, but that is one of the more thoughtfull and creative posts I've seen. There is much I disagree with, including some of which you've referenced...But I'll gladly take ONE OutSide The Box post for FIFTY regurgitated citations of Standard Dogma. :cool:

i agree... when the new viewpoint is complete and he can say who he would pick in those spots and maybe why he traded away veterans (especially wright, sanders,merriweather who have been in our system for so long) then doesn't say how or who he would replace them with.

Personally i agree with the merriweather notion because after 2 pro bowl selections his value surely has peaked and we have depth at the possition. But trading away 2 of our starters then not resigning mcgowan doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

As i said i don't normally discourage a mock, i'd just like some rhyme or reason behind some of the moves and with the 7-10 draft picks who he'd think would do a better job then said cast offs
 
Since we're doing a little draft trad'em, I'll throw my hat into the ring.

I was looking at what possibilities could open up by trading down from Oakland's pick (oh no! trading down!) to gain better advantage at the end of round one and the beginning of round two. Here's what I came up with:

Let's say Oakland's pick finds its best possible placement at #11 and Minnesota's does the same in the 3rd and becomes #77. Taking those picks into account and using only the first 4 rounds of this coming draft, and assuming the Pats pick at the end of each round, I'll move forward.

We would have picks:

11
32
33
64
77
96
128

Pick #11 is worth 1250 points on JJ's draft value chart. We trade that for #18 and #50 (one team's 1st and 2nd round pick this draft) which has a value of 1300. Roughly equal.

We then trade #18, whose value is 900, for #30 and #62, which equal 904 points. Roughly equal again.

Our picks so far:

30, 32, 33, 50, 62, 64, 77, 96, and 128

We then trade #62 and #64 (554 pts) for #34 (560 pts). Roughly equal again.

We also trade #50 and #77 (605 pts) for #31 (600 pts). Roughly equal again.

Our picks now:

30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 96, and 128

Five consecutive picks at the end of round one and the start of round two! How neat!

However, we then trade #31 and #128 for #29. Then we trade #30 and #96 for #24.

That leaves us with:

24, 29, 32, 33, and 34

At those spots we can get every position we need filled with top talent from the college ranks. I'm thinking Sherrod, Pouncey, Houston, Harris, and Watt.

What do you think guys?

hahah i love this thinking and this is why i love the pats prospective draft. we could do somehting like this with trade downs... or as some people say we could trade our 1st (32) 2nd 3rd e.t.c for a top 5 and pick a stud e.g fairley options are limitless.

I will say this like last year and 2009 it all depends where BB thinks the sweet spot in the draft is. 2009 he thought it was top half of the 2nd

2010 it seemed there was alot of depth and 1st round value in the 2nd round... do we think it will be the same this year? or will the value be top heavy?
 
A nod to Brother Mayo, as I pretty much repeat a private chat we're having, one that certainly warrants sharing with y'all:

I got nothing but love for Stomper McGee, there, but with him having won ~ even MORE unfathomably!! ~ his SECOND consecutive Pro Bowl award, I believe it is HIGH time to SELL HIGH on Brandon Meriweather!!

~ Tebucky Jones pulled in the equivalent of a 3rd, a 5th, and a 7th, in 2003.

~ Stomper is a good kid, a phenomenal athlete, and a Pro Bowler...but as The Divestiture of Randy Moss ~ read below ~ ought make clear to everyone, sometimes Less IS more: Stomper's barely suppressing his lunatic ways, and when you're in the business of winning Championships ~ and we are ~ he's actually as dangerous to us as to the Enemy!! :eek:

~ Give me a Kenny Tate. A Tyler Sash. Hell, a Brian Lainhart or a Mark LeGree.

Let James Sanders ~ an extraordinary Professional who gets more effective every year ~ train the new lad ~ or lads.

We could probably move Stomper for a 2nd Rounder, a 2012 2nd Rounder, and a couple of Late Rounders:

Good Free Safeties are much coveted, and Brandon is now a 2 Time Pro Bowler!! :eek:

And it says here that Tyler Sash ~ who we could probably pick up for a 3rd Rounder ~ would be an improvement on Brandon Meriweather, if he plays within the System.

Sell HIGH, baby. :cool:
 
I'll bite.

Projecting the 2011 Patriots Roster

Trades
Darius Butler – 2011 4th round pick
Ron Brace – 2011 4th round pick
Brandon Meriweather – 2012 2nd round pick
James Sanders – 2012 4th round pick
Mike Wright – 2013 6th pick
Tully Banta-Cain – 2013 7th round pick
Ryan Wendell (sign and trade) – 2013 7th round pick

Retiring
Stephen Neal (IR)

Resign
Logan Mankins (franchise if necessary)
Matt Light
Kyle Arrington
Kevin Faulk
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Tracy White
Bret Lockett
Jarrad Page
Josh Barrett
Darryl Richard
Ryan Wendell

Released/Not Resigned
Gerard Warren
Shayne Graham
Brandon McGowan (IR)
Mark LeVoir
Quinn Ojinnaka
Sammy Morris
Thomas Clayton
Landon Cohen
Darnell Jenkins (IR)
Ross Ventrone (PS)
Thomas Austin (PS)
Carson Butler (PS)
Thad Turner (PS)

Roster
QB-3 Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer and Jonathan Crompton (PS) – need another developmental type

RB-4 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Kevin Faulk (IR) and Eric Kettani (Reserve/Military) - use 3rd or 4th round pick for big RB

TE-3 Alge Crumpler, Rob Gronkowski and HB Aaron Hernandez – need a developmental type

WR-5 Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman and Taylor Price – need 2 developmental types

T-3 Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer and Steve Maneri (PS) - use 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick
G-3 Logan Mankins, Dan Connolly and G/T Nick Kaczur (IR) - need 2 developmental types
C-2 Dan Koppen, C/G Rich Ohrenberger - use 3rd or 4th round pick

DE-6 Ty Warren (IR), Brandon Deaderick, Eric Moore, Lorenzo Washington (PS) and Darryl Richard (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
NT-3 Vince Wilfork, Myron Pryor, Kade Weston (IR) and Kyle Love - use 3rd or 4th round pick

OLB-2 Jermaine Cunningham, Rob Ninkovich - use 2nd and 3rd round pick
ILB-4 Jerrod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Gary Guyton and Dan Fletcher

CB-5 Devin McCourty, Leigh Bodden (IR), Kyle Arrington, Tony Carter and Jonathan Wilhite (IR) - use 1st or 2nd round pick
S-5 Pat Chung, Jarrad Page, Josh Barrett (IR), Bret Lockett (IR) and Sergio Brown - need a developmental type

K Steve Gostkowski (IR)
P Zoltan Mesko
LS Matt Katula
ST Matt Slater
ST Tracy White

Room for 7-10 rookies/FAs (assumes 3 new IRs in 2011)

is this a joke? you cannot trade half of your starters for 4th round picks. this isnt madden, its real life
 
Well, I think he got a little aggressive, myself, but that is one of the more thoughtfull and creative posts I've seen. There is much I disagree with, including some of which you've referenced...But I'll gladly take ONE OutSide The Box post for FIFTY regurgitated citations of Standard Dogma. :cool:

i agree... when the new viewpoint is complete and he can say who he would pick in those spots and maybe why he traded away veterans (especially wright, sanders,merriweather who have been in our system for so long) then doesn't say how or who he would replace them with.

Personally i agree with the merriweather notion because after 2 pro bowl selections his value surely has peaked and we have depth at the possition. But trading away 2 of our starters then not resigning mcgowan doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

As i said i don't normally discourage a mock, i'd just like some rhyme or reason behind some of the moves and with the 7-10 draft picks who he'd think would do a better job then said cast offs

Very fair points, sir. Very fair points. :cool:

To be sure, the post is incomplete, and I agree with you 100%: I'd like to see the rest of the picture, as well. He DID post a quick Mock in another thread, one which I liked very much, in fact.
thinking%20about.gif
 
The Premium on Moving Back is 1 Round...approximately.

But what it really is ~ again: approximately ~ is a 50% Premium, roughly based on The Famous Draft Value Chart, and subject to all manner of variables, including the prospective Return On Investment of the targeted player, the Relative Strength of the two Draft Classes involved...and the prospects of the team paying the Premium.

No, Coach Bill The Mad doesn't conference me in on those negotiations: I get all that from applying The Chart to past trades, many of them our own.

All that being the case, trading #33 for another team's 2012 1st Rounder ~ or a package including it ~ would involve applying about a 50% discount to their prospective Draft position.

***

I've always found that notion amusing, because I can only imagine the conversations Coach Bill The Great has had with previous trade partners who swapped an unknown quantity to us for a known quantity, such as the Raiders, Panthers, and Vikings, in this draft, or the vast array of trade partners in other drafts of the past!!

"That should be PLENTY, Bill. After all, I feel an 0-16 coming on. I mean, we SUCK."

"My @$$. I thank GOD we aren't playing you this year. I fully expect to see you in the Super Bowl, where you'll probably beat us 73-0."

***

So as a starting point, if we were to trade #33 straight up for someone's 2012 1st, we'd be looking at a team that finished this year at about #13: #33 being tagged at 580 points, and #13 being tagged at about 1150 points.

Obviously, we'd want to target a team that we think is about to COLLAPSE.

In a package deal with a 2011 3rd Rounder, we might, for instance, pick up #84, this year, and the 2012 1st Rounder of a team that finished this year at #20 or #21.

***

MIND you: The Draft Value Chart is an estimator, not a rule book. Some trades go down for a Discount, relative to the Premium...And some trades go for a Super Premium. :D

For instance, when we traded the Panthers #89, last year, Fair Value ~ as it were ~ would've been the 2nd Rounder of a team that finished with #29 or so: #89, at 145 Points, swapped for #61, at 292 Points: the Panthers paying the usual 100% Premium for Trading Forward, which is to say they would Discount their own 2011 Pick by 50%.

By giving us the 2nd Rounder of a team ~ their own ~ that had finished #17, they coughed up the proxy for #49, which was worth 410 Points in 2011 "Dollars", and, therefore, at a 50% Discount, 205 Points in 2010 "Dollars"...for #89, at 145 Points in 2010 "Dollars".

Coach Bill ROOKED them!! :rocker:

* Don't mind me, gents: I wanted to save this thought, so it goes in this Thread, which I use for that purpose.
 
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