YAC and the MVP

[borg]

The MVP race has been muddied up and shoe-in Aaron Rodgers is hanging on for dear life despite Brees' record setting yards and Flynn's airshow in Rodgers' offense.
On another board, sentiments are leaning toward Brees because he threw 150 more passes than Rodgers and set records. I argued that Brees has the greatest arsenal of weapons in the NFL with 4 NFL caliber RBs, 1 All World TE, and 3 high grade WRs compared to Green Bay with a premium set of WRs, a quality TE, and JAG RBs.
A closer look at stats show that the Saints RBs account for 3300+ yds rushing/receiving vs 2400 for GB.
At TE, Graham gained about 600 yds more than Finley.
Saints RBs and TEs caught 90 more passes than GB's counterparts.
These stats alone show that Brees runs a very efficient low risk offense. Yards per attempt favored GB ....13 to 11.....and yards per catch favored GB by 1 yd.

But most interesting to me was YAC....Yards after catch. A top 40 list of NFL pass catchers has 3 Saints in the top 17....Sproles, Thomas, and Graham combining for over 1500 YAC....while GB has only Nelson cracking the top 40 with 380 YAC.

The disparity in stat makeup reminds me of the old arguement....Marino vs Montana/Young........down field vs west coast......pure passer vs systems QB.

Enter Brady into this conversation.....in particular....YAC

#1 YAC = Wes Welker.....707
#5 Gronk......632
#20 Hernandez.....417.......total= 1756 YAC

Amazing ....32 teams and the Pats have 3 players in the top 20.

So the Question for the board: Does high YAC team stats hurt Brees and Brady's MVP qualifications and does a low YAC/high YPA/YPC help Rodgers

YAC stats.... 2011 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Peter King does a nice job explaining why he believes Rodgers deserves the MVP over Brees
Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees make NFL MVP race interesting - Peter King - SI.com

Somehow, I missed Branch when adding up Pats YAC

#36 Branch 332 YAC

Pats top 4 total = 2088 YAC

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Somehow, I missed Branch when adding up Pats YAC

#36 Branch 332 YAC

Pats top 4 total = 2088 YAC

What's truly amazing about that stat is not very many of these yards were the result of TB hitting guys in stride and them going off to the races (off the top of my head I can only remember a few and they all seemed to be to Gronk early in the season). The work done by those guys to make the first guy miss and pick up 10, 20, 30... yards was remarkable to watch.

And before the TB defense crew inserts hot coals into some of my more sensitive orifices... TB was highly accurate this season, he understood his receivers strengths, made the safe passes that kept the receiver clean, and let them play to their strengths. That's what makes him the best in the business.

 

[borg]

YAC and the RB

Saints
158 completions to RBs for 1199 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)

GB
73 completions to RBs for 598 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)

Pats
34 completions to RBs for 248 YAC.......( above )

Total YAC for each team (using top 300 YAC players)

Pats....2387 YAC
NO.....2299 YAC
GB.....1889 YAC

NO is more a dink and dunk than I ever imagined....2 RBs in top 15 YAC
Pats are so top heavy (4) in their weapons (2088 )YAC)...3 stars
Rodgers receivers has less YAC stars.....4 in the #23-#59 range

 

[everlong]

Belichick has talked about this in the past in regard to Montana vs Young. He said the biggest difference was that Montana nearly always put the ball where it allowed the receiver to maximize their run after the catch by not making them break stride.

There's certainly two types of YAC. There's Gronk bashing a couple of defenders into submission and getting 30 extra yards. Then there's Brady throwing a perfect ball over the CB and leading him away from the safety and Welker catches the ball 18 yards off the line of scrimmage but goes for a 99 yard TD. Brady has hit at least three of those with Wes this season.

I'm sure football outsiders or somebody with a lot more time could break this out but to make a blanket statement that YAC shouldn't go in the credit column for the QB is ridiculous.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't get the whole notion of discounting YAC. It's the QB that found the receiver, and in the case of a Brady or Brees, it's often the QB's well pin-pointed throw that leads the receiver to more yardage. Does Aaron Rodgers really deserve credit for launching the ball 50 yards in the air to a wide-open Greg Jennings off of a blown coverage?

Brees should be the MVP, he's playing on another level. Rodgers schedule was just way too easy in terms of pass defenses.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'd have to bow to anyone here who has actually stood in the pocket in a major college program or in the NFL, but it seems to me that getting the ball to a receiver in the flat or underneath coverage over the middle in stride brings with it its own set of challenges, as does throwing the long ball.

So, I'm not all that sure that the ability to hit a receiver in stride down-field is so much more valuable than the ability consistently to avoid picks while completing shorter passes, also in stride, to receivers who know what to do once the ball is in their hands.

Both are clearly valuable, but dissing a QB for doing one more than he does the other doesn't seem correct, as long as he's moving the sticks and winning games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Discounting YAC for a quarterback is an exercise that doesn't make sense.

 

[ahmed]

A lot of the YAC comes from the QB's ability to put the ball where the WR does not have to break stride or turn or make any adjustments to catch the ball. This in turn allows the WR to continue running without losing momentum to the DBs on his butt which provides the ability for more YAC. How often do you see a WR make a catch and get downed and the colour guy says they could've gotten a lot more yards had the ball been thrown to a better spot?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

One of my beefs with the new ESPN total quarterback ranking is that they have a formula to limit credit to the QB for yards gained after the catch. STUPID.

For the life of me I cannot fathom how anyone says, in the following 2 scenarios, QB1 made a better play than QB2:

QB1: makes a toss to a diving receiver for a 12 yard gain, with no YAC

QB2: throws a 5 yard dart to a receiver in stride, for a 30 yard gain

Your job as QB is to keep moving the ball down the field an not make mistakes. Shorter passes with high YAC does both, and is a mark of a good QB rather than a "dink and dunk QB" which is a term I naturally hate.

 

[ahmed]

Another factor is the type of WRs available to the QB. Brady's receivers are all YAC guys and not really WRs that can stretch the field. How come that doesn't come into the equation when evaluating the YAC and down field throws? Rodgers clearly has receivers that can get down field faster.

 

[pherein]

YAC and the RB

Saints
158 completions to RBs for 1199 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)
GB
73 completions to RBs for 598 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)
Pats
34 completions to RBs for 248 YAC.......( above )
Total YAC for each team (using top 300 YAC players)

Pats....2387 YAC
NO.....2299 YAC
GB.....1889 YAC

NO is more a dink and dunk than I ever imagined....2 RBs in top 15 YAC
Pats are so top heavy (4) in their weapons (2088 )YAC)...3 stars
Rodgers receivers has less YAC stars.....4 in the #23-#59 range

Yes we are. Pretty sure I posted that our offense is based on 8 yards. Our QB's 1st responsibility when passing is to make 8, if another opportunity opens up he will bomb it down field. At least in SP mind, if you don't have a short pass/run game, you can be stopped.

Isn't it more applicable to figure out who is the best game manager?
YAC is interesting, but not understanding how a QB that throws 2 40 yard passes, and ends with a field goal, is better than a QB that short passes, screens, and places the ball perfectly for 15 plays, and gets a touchdown.

I would pick the second one.

Plus throwing bombs relies heavily on receiver talent. Any of the 3 QB's in question can chuck it up to Megatron. Thats not talent, its just distance. And what happens when you cover that option ? Suddenly, and maybe what happen with KC, your forced to find your short game, and beat a #1 defense, like ravens, by reading its weaknesses and carving it up, but your not good at it.

I think its kind of funny when people say a QB is padding stats when they are just doing what the offense is designed to do.