Welcome to PatsFans.com

Wrong Borges trashed on the profootballtalk website

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by stinkypete, Apr 2, 2006.

  1. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +35 / 0 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Very funny. Borges is claiming that Neal's agent, with close ties to BB, wouldn't let him talk to other teams. The profootballtalk story mentions how Borgs failed to mention that his own paper published stories about Neal visiting the Bills, Vikings and Dolphins.
  2. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    9,947
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +109 / 2 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    LOL, that's funny. But I'm sure Borges will say that his own newspaper lied to make the Pats look good. :rolleyes:
  3. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,803
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    From profootballtalk:

    "Ron Borges of the Boston Globe, who seemingly takes perverse pleasure in knocking the Patriots and coach Bill Belichick, reports that an agency with strong ties to Belichick might have steered clients Adam Vinatieri and Stephen Neal toward returning to the team."

    Full article: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2006
  4. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    Casserly is singing his swan song as GM of a franchise he helped turn into cow dung. It makes perfect sense that he would work closely with a dung beetle to attack the most successful franchise in the league. Sorry Charley, sour grapes are for losers, like the one who contacted you for his article. :)
  5. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    AMEN...AMEN...WRONG BORGES IS A SC**B*G AND IT WILL NEVER END....
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2006
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,449
    Likes Received:
    140
    Ratings:
    +279 / 10 / -26

    Let's look at the positive side to all of this, if he keeps pissing off pats players and pats staff he may be regulated to dumpster diving to get news stories...there is hope her folks..
  7. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,803
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    He already does that. Have you seen any article written by him that says he spoke to any player or representative of the Patriots organization. He has no credibility.
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +60 / 2 / -0

    OK Boys and Girls - now ask yourself this question:

    Did Mike Florio himself review that article and quickly come to all those correct assessments of the curious oversights committed by Borges?

    Not that Florio is incapable of such detective work, but clearly he got a call or email from a well placed Patriots source feeding him a good portion of that spin.

    Beyond that I don't blame Adam V. for switching his agent - its wise not to allow agents to be in a situation where their loyalties should be in question

    But I'd still love to see the NFL go after Casserly for attempting to go around Neal's agent!
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2006
  9. oldrover

    oldrover Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Ron Borges's cheery disposition reminds me of this happy-go-lucky gent...











    [​IMG]

    :D
  10. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Florio is all about reading articles and editorializing on them. I wouldn't make any assumptions about the validity of what he says one way or another.
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Unless of course that opens up another whole can of worms. Which is probably why they won't. They would be more inclined to go after Hurst and Cornrich if they feel they were shortchanging their clients contract wise for some other real or perceived consideration.

    I hate to defend Wrong, but he does have his non-Patriot (and Patriot player) league and agent sources. And at least from a Patriot player clientele standpoint this season Hurst didn't appear to exactly maximize the FA experience. That Neal made visits to a couple of other teams means little if the agent knew they would not exceed or perhaps even match the offer he already had on the table. In fact that is one way to convince a player to do what you recommend. Neal seemed disappointed he didn't get to relocate to the west. I'm sure sooner or later he will discover whether or not there was any opportunity to and it simply wasn't persued.
  12. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +60 / 2 / -0

    I wouldn't characterize most of what's on PFT as Florio's independent thought - not by a long stretch.

    That doesn't mean you shouldn't question the agendas of all those who leak him information, nor assume its always truthful - but in this case, with the exception of Neal signing a bad deal - the facts back up the PFT spin.

    Sometimes PFT cites a general team source, sometimes unnamed management, and other times anonymous sources prefer not to be mentioned at all.

    I really don't buy the fact that Florio came up with all that analysis and fact checking within a matter of hours of the article appearing, with the insight of someone who knows the Patriots inside and out.

    I'm not buying the fact that he did what no poster on Patsfans.com or any other board was able to do as quickly and effectively. Pretty good for a guy who admittedly runs this website part time while holding a real job.

    Or the more feasible explanation is that someone from the Patriots wanted to set the record straight and undermine Borges without their fingerprints being anywhere near it.

    But if you want to think he came up with all that himself, you obviously have a very high opinion of him, so don't let me ruin that.
  13. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I don't know what new 'facts' you are referring to in the Florio piece. It's all culled from Borges' article with some analysis added in. There's no new sources, numbers, info of any kind.
  14. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +35 / 0 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    I'm not sure of the facts in the Florio piece, and honestly, I don't intend on researching them. I just find it funny that somebody who runs a national football rumor/opinion page sees the folly in Borges ways. It says something about Borges that a non Pats fan/non Boston Globe reader understands that his opinions are bulls**t.
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +60 / 2 / -0

    The fact that Casserly was in violation of the NFLPA?

    You don't find it odd that, although die hard fans on this site and other boards didn't pick up on that, this guy, who follows 32 other teams on a website he runs on a part time basis comes up with that aspect within hours of the article going to print?

    You also find it to be a coincidence that the die hard fans of Patsfans and other sites didn't pick up on the fact that Borges failed to call Neal himself to factcheck these items while Florio did?

    You also find it to be a coincidence that Florio also picked up on another fact that seemed to escape most Patsfans members as well, namely the fact he had visited other teams?

    PFT relies on leaked info coming from credible and not so credible sources. But in this case you DON'T think his info came from a Patriots source?

    ...that Mike Florio is a bigger Neal fan and Patsfan than most Patsfans, having all these facts at the tip of his fingers hours after the article ran?

    I mean I don't want to hit you over the head with the obvious - but its completely obvious that article was prompted by someone within the Pats organization who was pi$$ed over the sloppy one-sided Borges article and decided to give Florio the ammunition to shoot back.

    Top off all this interesting information that Florio "independently" came up with when no one else did with the final "FU" from someone who wanted it to be noted that, given the Kraft's influence within the NFL, that Casserly's bid for Commissioner was now DOA, and I think its pretty clear that while Florio might be good - he's not that good a reporter. (and in fact, he's not a reporter as well - he's a guy who gets leaked info and posts it on his website)
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2006
  16. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My head hurts!

    Could someone break this down into terms simpler than 6 pack as I'm lost as to what the issue is. I Wrong saying that Neal's agent screwed him? Is PFT saying that Borges is a Sh*t bag lying fool? I'm confused.
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Yes. And yes. LOL

    It's not a stretch to say Ron has it in for BB. That's well documented.

    As for Florio, he's likely just jealous Casserly didn't drop a dime on him!

    Joe's theory that someone in BB's circle did drop a dime on Florio is viable, although I doubt it was at his behest - he wouldn't be inclined to dignify the assertion with a comment. Not to mention the fact that Neal visited elsewhere, where he apparently didn't get offers or at least anything approaching what the Pats were already offering, doesn't really have any bearing on what may or may not have happened with the Texans and Neal's agent. Or the fact that Neal didn't generate any apparent interest from any team other than them west of the Mississippi.
  18. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Ok Joe, let's examine the obvious. The only new info FLorio adds is the NFLPA rule that GM's can't contact a player directly, which is not some obscure rule. Here is the PFT article:

    CASSERLY THINKS CORNRICH GROUP STEERED NEAL TO NEW ENGLAND

    Ron Borges of the Boston Globe, who seemingly takes perverse pleasure in knocking the Patriots and coach Bill Belichick, reports that an agency with strong ties to Belichick might have steered clients Adam Vinatieri and Stephen Neal toward returning to the team.

    Neil Cornrich, per Borges, has "long been closely associated with [Belichick], once boasting on his website that he was Belichick's agent and acknowledging that he did work as his attorney." With Cornrich serving a one-year suspension for using proprietary NFLPA research data in conjunction with his work as an expert witness for General Motors in the wrongful death action filed by the estate of Derrick Thomas, Vinatieri and Neal had been working with Jonathan Hurst, of Cornrich's firm.

    As to Vinatieri, Borges reports that the guy whose foot provided the difference in each of the team's three Super Bowl victories had "doubts that Hurst was considering all the options available to him" in getting offers for Vinatieri. "It seemed to Vinatieri that Hurst was pushing him back to New England," Borges writes. "Whether Hurst was or not, Vinatieri told people in Green Bay he feared that was the case."

    So Vinatieri hired Gary Uberstine, and Uberstine quickly placed Vinatieri in Indy.

    As to Neal, Texans G.M. Charley Casserly was suspicious as to whether the veteran Patriots guard really was a "free" agent. After Hurst "refused" to bring Neal to Houston for a visit, Hurst told Casserly: "It's just not going to work out."

    So Casserly tried to contact Neal directly.

    ''I left a message on his cellphone," Casserly told Borges. ''I don't know if he got it or not. I never got to talk to Steve. But our offer was a signing bonus between $5 million and $6 million. It probably would have ended up at $5.5 million. The average of the [four-year] deal would have been $3 million a season, including the signing bonus. Go look what they signed him for."

    Neal's signing bonus was only $3.2 million, according to Borges.

    ''You figure out what happened," Casserly said. ''He was never really a free agent. It was all just for show."

    Although Casserly amazingly (and unwisely, in our view) went on the record with his comments, the article raises new questions regarding Borges' objectivity when it comes to the Patriots. For example, Borges doesn't mention that his own paper ran an AP item indicating that Neal had visited the Vikings and the Bills. Another article from Nick Cafardo of the Globe said that Neal also had visited the Dolphins. The fact that Hurst took Neal on three visits undermines Borges' implicit suggestion that Hurst wouldn't let Neal talk to other teams.

    Borges also fails to mention that, if Casserly's version of the events is true, it means that Casserly has admitted to an attempt to negotiate directly with a player who is represented by an NFLPA-certified agent, which arguably violates Article VI, Section 1 of the CBA.

    Casserly's decision to characterize the re-signing of Neal by the Pats as an inside job also has curious timing, given that Casserly reportedly is under consideration for a job in the league office. With the Krafts quickly gaining more and more influence in the NFL, why risk making enemies through a gratuitous attack on the team they own?

    It'd be interesting to see what Neal has to say about all of this. The fact that there's no indication in Borges' item that he tried to reach the player himself makes us wonder whether there might be even more to this one that Borges conveniently has overlooked.
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Now..............


    Again, it's a relatively simple rule that all coaches, GMs are aware of. The one thing Florio does well is cover contracts, both individual and the leagues.



    Florio didn't call Neal. Per the article: "It'd be interesting to see what Neal has to say about all of this. The fact that there's no indication in Borges' item that he tried to reach the player..."
    That mean, A. Florio didn't call NEal. and B. he assumes, correctly, that Borges didn't either since there was not the typical "Neal could not be reached for comment" or "Neither Neal or his agent or the Patriots" would comment". Without such things in this or any other news article, you can assume the journalist did not contact those sources. IT's journalism 101 and if none of the 'diehard Patsfans' here mentioned it it is probably (I dearly hope) because it is, yes, obvious.


    I can retireve every article that has ever mentioned Neal in about 2 minutes.
    You're argument that how could Florio do this so quickly when other 'fans' didn't is silly. He is a professional and despite his warts he gets paid for a reason.

    Sometimes it has sources, often it is just editorializing on articles that run in local papers. A lot of the PFT articles are crafted that you would think they did some leg work on it but when you strip down the facts and look at how it is sourced (ie. "per Borges' artciles Casserly said....") you'll see there were no calls made, no new info, and not even fact checked.



    Not only is it not obvious, it is pure conjecture on your part. If anything the artcile clearly states that he did not do any other interviews. If he had he would have inserted "our source tells us..." ...or something of the like to show that they did their own work. Never underestimate the ego of a journalist.


    I don't know what this has to do with the price of tea in China.

    Florio is an internet junkie, who searches stories and editorializes on them. He loves to boast about his sources and scoops but this is far less common that him just reading between the lines of news artticles and spinning it into a column.

    I really hope you read articles about politics, war etc. with a more discerning eye to see what is and what is not, obvious.
  19. allworldrussfrancis

    allworldrussfrancis Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I am not sure what is worse: the fact that Borges continues to write ridiculously biased coverage of the Patriots or that there are some individuals who shockingly need to defend him.
  20. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,372
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    OT: Lionel Barrymore

    I know you're referring to Potter, the character he played in "It's a Wonderful Life", but did you know that Lionel Barrymore was actually a very highly thought of actor, part of the famous Barrymore acting family, and he wore a false bald cap and makeup in the movie to make him look cruel?

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>