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Wrecks Defense...

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by AzPatsFan, Dec 30, 2010.

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  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I have proposed the thesis that Rex's defense is similar to what Pete Carroll's DC was doing in the late 90s for the Pats.

    They went blitz happy and every year they would jump out to a spectacular start for the first 4-6 games of a season. They would unveil a bunch of blitzes that confused opponents. But once the OCs had all the blitzes on tape, and developed counters, that Pats Defense would crumble and the Team would stumble to a poor finish.

    I thought the same thing would happen to Wreck's Jests.

    Now I give him a tip of the cap because he is better than Carroll's DC, and it has taken longer, but the Jesters D no longer confuses and terrorizes opponents.

    This weekend, no one other than Cower said essentially the same thing, on TV. Coaches have cataloged all the Jets blitzes and figured out how to counter them. Cower also said the Jets have no pass rush without blitzing; and their Safeties can be exploited.

    If this is so are the Jets now ...done?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  2. Gunnails

    Gunnails In the Starting Line-Up

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    No Jersey Selected

    ====================================

    No.
     
  3. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Why not? :eek:
     
  4. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think that there is more to the Jets defense than 'learn the blitzes and destroy them'. I think you still need the horses to beat the Jets D.

    That being said, whoever Cromartie is defending will be open every play. If Moss was still on the team, Cro could take Moss out of the game. Give him Welker/Branch/Edelman/Woodhead to cover and he'll lose every time.
     
  5. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    Their defense has definitely regressed. Sanchez still sucks and isn't making up for it like they were probably hoping for.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  6. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    wow 1st time i have seen a jets poster on here in a while... confidence growing again now your definately in the playoffs?
     
  7. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    No/thread....
     
  8. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the biggest problem with Ryan and the Jets* defense is that Ryan, for all his defensive genius accolades, lacks the creativity and decipline to adjust. In fact, it goes to a greater issue that is wrong with the team that Ryan and his "let's have fun and show a lot of swagger" way of coaching seriously lacks the discipline and situational thinking that is required to play at a high level in this league.

    I seriously doubt Ryan spends nearly as much time gameplanning and gearing his defense to take away what his opponent does best as Belichick does. I think he goes into the game with basically the same gameplan every week with some tweaks. Last year he basically just used overloaded side blitzes and relied on the talent of his players. Unfortunately for him, the talent isn't there this year.

    Belichick will tinker with both sides of the ball to put his team in the best position to win based on the team they are facing. You will see different formations and personnel grouping based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing team. Belichick, unlike Ryan, will not force what his team does best if it isn't a great match up for that given Sunday. He isn't afraid of grounding Brady a bit to run the ball more against a bad run defense like he did against the Bills this past Sunday. I can't see Ryan doing that on either side of the ball very often.

    Also, I don't think Ryan is keen on the attention to details. The Jets are a sloppy team right now. They have too many stupid penalties. They can't tackle. Receivers are dropping passes left and right. It is so bad that Ryan announced this week that they were going to work on the fundamentals this week like tackling.

    What has made this Pats' team overcome the weaknesses on the defense this year is their attention to details. This is still one of the least penalized team. Belichick always knows if the officiating crew is flag happy or not and instructs his players accordingly. The Pats haven't turned over the ball on offense in months. The defense is making key plays when they need them. That is details.

    I think Ryan will ultimately suffer the same fate as Pete Carroll did here. He is going to flounder the talent the Jets have and not get to the Super Bowl. His style of coaching cannot produce consistent play. There is a reason why player coaches never win Super Bowls and hard arses like Belichick, Parcells, Cowher, Johnson, etc. have multiple rings. Player coaches let players' slide (for example bringing cheeseburgers onto the practice field) while hard arses have their teams prepared every game.

    *Caught Cheating and Punished by the League
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  9. Gunnails

    Gunnails In the Starting Line-Up

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    No Jersey Selected

    ==========================================

    There in the playoffs so anything is possible, even if unlikely.

    The Jets have moved forward in many respects this year, It is likely they continue. Who knows.



    ===============================================

    45-3 does a lot to damper a Jet fans enthusiasm towards posting here. Still not over it. You would think I would be used to it. Any way like a bad rash I still linger.
     
  10. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'll take it a step further and say the Pats defense is completely the opposite. Obviously I never saw the coaches tape, but I'm pretty confident the week 2 gameplan against the Jets was much more "plain vanilla" than it was the second time around. Sure, the defense has gotten better, but I'm pretty sure Belichick tries to show as little as possible early on and then integrate new stuff as the year goes on.
     
  11. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    hey always good to have different opinions on a forum i welcome it.

    jets have a good a chance as any as the playing field is level come playoff time.

    That said i wouldn't mind another matchup pats vs jets at home. So we can have an answer to if bb has worked out the Jets D
     
  12. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I actually think the opposite is happening. To me, the Jets have done less blitzing this year and have been more conservative at times. Remember the 3rd and longs against them in the 45-3 game? Rex rushed 3 and dropped 8 on some - he showed Brady too much respect IMO. Against Pittsburgh, Rex was flooding the field with 8 guys in coverage instead of bringing the house at the end of the game -- he was choosing to play max coverage instead of casino blitzing.

    I think he felt he put too many of his blitzes out on tape last year, and that is what helped do them in eventually vs Indy. I think he's holding some things back for the post season so his blitzes are harder for teams to deal with in the playoffs and are more effective because teams haven't seen them or haven't been able to prepare for them.

    The problem the Jets are having is that they cannot get a consistent pass rush with 4 guys.

    Taylor is showing signs of being 36, Pace is okay but not a dominant edge rusher, Ellis hasn't played as well and is aging, and Jenkins is SORELY missed on that line -- he was the only dominant player. DeVito and Pouha are blue collar guys who play hard and eat up blocks but not dynamic like Jenkins.

    Contrary to popular belief, the Jets talent is not "so much better" than the Pats. Revis, Cromartie, and Harris are the only truly good talents. Leonard was important too before he went down, and obviously Jenkins too. Guys like Bart Scott and Calvin Pace are overrated based on their names. Scott couldn't drop into coverage to save his life. Taylor and Pace are nothing to write home about. Lowery and Coleman suck, Pool sucks, and Kyle Wilson hasn't come along as fast as needed. They also don't have anyone who can cover TE's or RB's out of the backfield.

    Rex's scheme compensates for a lack of talent. He more or less took Mangini's personnel which made up an average defense under Mangini in 2008 and made it a dominant (#1 total defense) in 2009. This year they have been more up and down and some of the numbers are skewed by the pounding they took in NE, but they're still a defense I don't want to face in the playoffs.

    The Jets talent level on defense was oversold. Rex has done a great job masking the deficiencies of some of his personnel. I hate him but I respect him greatly as a defensive mind.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  13. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I read a report that Rex has recently paid more attention to the defense, attending meetings, he was letting the DC handle things rather than being on top of everything like Belichick typically is.

    I think Rex fancies himself a player's coach and motivator rather than an Xs and Os detail guy. Here's part of an article, can anyone imagine Bill ever saying this?

    Way to keep the team focused on a playoff run, Rex.... :rolleyes:
     
  14. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up

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    FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- As they prepare for the final game of the regular season, the New York Jets are looking out for No. 1.

    Vernon Gholston's first sack. Ever.

    "Of all our individual priorities, that might be No. 1," coach Rex Ryan said. "I'd love to see Vernon get the sack. Just for him."

    Wow. That's embarrassing to the whole league.
     
  15. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Maybe it's their #1 goal because they want to be able to justify cutting him.

    Schefter wrote about it a few weeks ago:

    I actually hope he gets it just to complicate things for the Jets.

    As for the OP, I don't think the Jets defense is done by a long shot. They've shown some more flexibility this year. In the week 2 game against the Patriots, they were blitz-heavy in the first half, but started playing more coverage in the second half which caused problems for Brady. They stuck with it in the second match-up though, which by then, Brady had figured out.

    I think the Jets defensive issues have more to do with personnel than scheme. Revis's holdout and subsequent injury didn't help, and he hasn't been his usual dynamic self. The lack of standard pass rush is definitely an issue, but part of that is attributable to the loss of Jenkins. And that safety group took a big hit with the loss of Leonhard.

    That D isn't as terrifying or confusing as the first year, but it's still a pretty solid group that should remain a top 10 group next year when a few guys get healthy.
     
  16. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    I remember laughing the day the Jets picked Gholston. 99% of his hype seemed to stem against one good game against Michigan. Granted, he was tooling Jake Long around but it was only one game.
     
  17. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you that this was a mistake against Tom Brady. Of course, hindsight is 20-20. It's not like the blitzing was working that well either in their second matchup.

    I look at it the opposite way - I have confidence the Patriots would do well against the Jets.

    It's talked about often and is occasionally true - a team provides a "blueprint" for how to beat another team. The Patriots did that years ago when they went into Minnesota (who was the #1 team against the run), refused to rush the ball and passed their way into an easy victory. Other teams saw that and the Vikings were totally exposed the rest of the year.

    I think something similar has happened this year. I totally agree with the opening poster that teams have watched the blitzes on tape and figured out good counter-strategies. I also think that the Jets defensive players aren't quite as good as they were last year. But the nail in the coffin is the Patriots providing a blueprint for how to beat the Jets.

    Rex Ryan pinned a lot of his hopes on Revis coming back this year. He got his man. But the Patriots successfully spreading out the Jets and then attacking the safeties has made Revis almost irrelevant. When Revis lined up on Welker, the Patriots ran the play (presumably devised just for the Jets) that had Woodhead matched up on a linebacker(!) and went for 35 yards.

    It's clear that other teams have incorporated the Patriots methods of attacking the Jets defense since that game - and they've had a lot of success. There are no easy fixes for this weakness once it has been exposed. And the Jets offense relying on Sanchez is very unpredictable - not at all what you need when you go into the playoffs. With cold weather here which seems to impact Sanchez' performance and a full season on Tomlinson's legs, I have little reason to expect that the Jets will make it out of the first round. But I'm hoping that they do because I have as much confidence against the Jets as against any other playoff team.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  18. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 On the Game Day Roster

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    I think it's not Ryan so much as the players.

    The DL has good run stuffers but none of them are pass rushers.

    Scott and Pace are just average now. Harris is a 2 down LB and Thomas is a stiff.

    Cro is good, but matches up bad with certain smaller quick WRs Revis is great and the safeties are awful.

    The NY media and there stupid fans overated these players and now Rex is taking the blame.
     
  19. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The latest chapter in the Rex Ryan - Tony Dungy soap opera.

    Ryan responds to Dungy tweak - Jets Blog - ESPN New York

     
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