WR needs

[bigfandan]

He said something to the effect that "we can't beat them with a normal plan; we have to manufacture positions". His team executed that game plan beautifully. Going to 4th downs, onside kick.

And BB called 4th-2 from his own 28 yard line b/c he did not want Manning to get the ball. That offense, when it is on, is the best in the history of the game. Period. Any one of the 5 receivers is capable of putting 10-12 catches and 150 yards in any given game. I have never seen anyone scare BB like that.

And what about Sean Payton?

 

[The_Riddler]

Brandon Marshall is our ticket to TB's 4th and elusive superbowl title to put him up with Joe Montana..........

BB, let's drop the Josh Reed talk, get Brandon in town. Can you imagine the excitement ? Can you imagine the groan from the city to our left if we were to pull this off ? Can you picture the look on slim Rex's face ?

Let's get this done BB. You've helped Josh get to where he is. Give him a call and get this done, he owes you

 

[Kontradiction]

Brandon Marshall is our ticket to TB's 4th and elusive superbowl title to put him up with Joe Montana..........

BB, let's drop the Josh Reed talk, get Brandon in town. Can you imagine the excitement ? Can you imagine the groan from the city to our left if we were to pull this off ? Can you picture the look on slim Rex's face ?

Let's get this done BB. You've helped Josh get to where he is. Give him a call and get this done, he owes you

Marshall and McDaniels, despite their effort in trying to make it work, were like oil and water last season. What makes gives you the impression that it's going to work between him and Belichick?

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Marshall and McDaniels, despite their effort in trying to make it work, were like oil and water last season. What makes gives you the impression that it's going to work between him and Belichick?

Maybe Moss can convince Marshall to behave :singing:

We will be drafting a WR in Rd 2, and sign Mason

Moss, Mason, Edelman, Tate, Draft Pick, Welker. There will be some other camp fodder and UDFA.

 

[glm]

He said something to the effect that "we can't beat them with a normal plan; we have to manufacture positions". His team executed that game plan beautifully. Going to 4th downs, onside kick.

And BB called 4th-2 from his own 28 yard line b/c he did not want Manning to get the ball. That offense, when it is on, is the best in the history of the game. Period. Any one of the 5 receivers is capable of putting 10-12 catches and 150 yards in any given game. I have never seen anyone scare BB like that.

 

[paradox]

Marshall and McDaniels, despite their effort in trying to make it work, were like oil and water last season. What makes gives you the impression that it's going to work between him and Belichick?

McDaniels is no Belichick. No matter how hard he tries to be him

 

[DW Toys]

The percentage is much higher on second round picks, obviously. And that's without accounting for the fact that this draft is loaded with historic talent due to the CBA uncertainty and players wanting to get in ahead of any potential cap.

Bottom line, any team that wants to win in the NFL needs its draft picks to perform big and perform early on their rookie contracts. If you don't think the Pats can make that happen, then you're implicitly stating that the Pats can't build a winning team in the NFL. End of story.

If there's been an exception to this in recent history, it's the '07 Pats, who still had Wilfork, Meriweather, Mankins, Maroney, Gay, Samuel, Wilson, Gostkowski, Watson, Kaczur, Sanders, and Hobbs all make major contributions under rookie deals/franchise tag

I respect your opinion but beg to differ Cousin.

Two items I will mention could change your mind if you are indeed, open minded. The first example is this year's Saints. No explanation needed. Trades and FAs made them win the SB. The 07 Patriots had 63 Players go through their roster during the season. 27 of them were FAs, Trades or street pick ups. That is 42% of the Team. Those above you listed contributed for sure, but not to surpass the quality in the FA class.

Secondly. Think 18%. 18% of all NFL Teams in general have a success rate of 18% that a Drafted player will help....within a three year period of time. The bar set on that is above average contributor, such as full time starter, Pro Bowl caliber future or long time tendered Team roster fixture (kicker, LS etc.).
The key there is three years.
The second issue I have with "Draft Dreaming" besides not knowing if a 21 year old kid will adapt to the NFL and we have a list here of failed Pats amongst some good ones like Brady, Mayo, Wilfork etc., is the fact that if we have 13 holes which I can see and more if the FO did not do it's job and Bodden walks and we only have 8 Draft choices to fill all those holes. At 18% of 8, realistically that is 1.44 players but say two of the eight are successful. If we do better than average, perhaps three top tier players from this Draft to be ready in three years, and some exceptional cases, less time.
If you pick up 6 NFL ready FAs and only three work out, it certainly over weighs the Draft process if you want to win in 2010. 50% beats 18% on a three year time table.

I don't like Brandon Marshall as a human being because he feels like everyone owes him because he is a star. Let's be realistic and say that is the general attitude of most young professional athletes. He just happens to go over the edge more often. At some point he grows up.

COMPARISON: For all you older Patriot fans, think Irving Fryar. He was really not much different than Marshall was he? He finally grew up some (mostly after the Pats) and made some more Pro Bowls and played 17 seasons!

Stats from Wiki:He played a total of 255 games in his career and made the Pro Bowl five times (1985, 1993, 1994, 1996 and 1997).

Fryar retired from the NFL in 2001 after completing 17 NFL seasons. During that time, he caught 851 passes for 12,785 yards and 84 touchdowns, along with one rushing and three punt return touchdowns. He also gained 242 rushing yards, 2,055 yards returning punts, 505 yards on kickoff returns, and 7 fumble return yards, giving him 15,594 all-purpose yards.

NFL Records: * Touchdown receptions from 19 different passers
* Consecutive seasons with 10+ receptions - 17 (1984–2000)
* Consecutive seasons with 150+ receiving yards - 17 (1984–2000)
* Consecutive seasons with 2+ touchdown receptions - 16 (1985–2000)
* Consecutive seasons with 2+ touchdowns - 16 (1985–2000) - tied with Marcus Allen
* 1st player to record a touchdown reception in 17 consecutive seasons (1984–2000) - (broken by Jerry Rice who ended up with 20 consecutive seasons with a TD reception)
* Oldest player to score 4 touchdowns (all receptions) in a single game (10/20/1996) - 34 years, 22 days

The late Will McDonough wrote this in 1991-

"Irving is not hot. Got that? Not hot. Which means Fryar is not cookin'. And no one is lookin' to grant his wish.

Irving Fryar has made it clear he wants out of here, but the problem is, there is no there.

From what we understand from other members of the NFL, the Patriots have been shopping him around, but the word is buyers are coming up with empty pockets.

Fryar, who was the top pick in the draft seven years back and whom some consider the Patriots' best player, isn't getting any respect in the trading market."

A lot of his success was after the Patriots (think Broncos). Read this link and tell me you would not reconsider Brandon Marshall

IRVING FRYAR, A FORMER HELL-RAISER, HAS FOUND HEAVEN AS A - 06.05.95 - SI Vault
DW Toys

 

[Kontradiction]

McDaniels is no Belichick. No matter how hard he tries to be him

His attitude toward players like Marshall is the exact same.

 

[bigfandan]

Did you see them destroy jets defense (ranked #1 in NFL) in the 2nd half? They put 3 TDs before Jets even knew what hit them.

 

[Kontradiction]

Did you see them destroy jets defense (ranked #1 in NFL) in the 2nd half? They put 3 TDs before Jets even knew what hit them.

Actually, they destroyed the Jets defense in the first half and were all but shut out in the second half.

 

[paradox]

His attitude toward players like Marshall is the exact same.

Yeah, you see BB hugging and kissing his problem players after PC's.

 

[DW Toys]

Actually, they destroyed the Jets defense in the first half and were all but shut out in the second half.

Remember Orten is not Brady and remember super rookie Eddie Royal had a bad year in 2009 (Soph. slump?)
DW Toys

 

[captain stone]

He said something to the effect that "we can't beat them with a normal plan; we have to manufacture positions". His team executed that game plan beautifully. Going to 4th downs, onside kick.

And BB called 4th-2 from his own 28 yard line b/c he did not want Manning to get the ball. That offense, when it is on, is the best in the history of the game. Period. Any one of the 5 receivers is capable of putting 10-12 catches and 150 yards in any given game. I have never seen anyone scare BB like that.

What's even sadder is that nobody's afraid of the big, bad Bill any longer. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[bigfandan]

They trailed jets 6-17; scored a quick TD just before half time to trail 13-17 at half; came out of half time and scored a quick TD again (20-17); scored on next two possessions (30-17), then milked clock and won the game 30-17. They basically beat up the #1 jets defense senseless.

Rex looked like he was about to cry.

Actually, they destroyed the Jets defense in the first half and were all but shut out in the second half.

 

[JMarr]

His attitude toward players like Marshall is the exact same.

Really? If you think a first year coach with a Napoleon-syndrome is in the same league as Belichick in handling problem players, then you really need to think a little harder.

The only reason McDaniels didn't lose total control of his team last year was by trading Cutler and, by miracle, winning his first 6 games with Orton, then by benching Marshall, his best TE, and another starter with the playoffs on the line, resulting in the worst end to the season imaginable to Broncos fans.

With the proper motivation and coaching, Marshall is as good as ANYONE in this league. And yes, as a previous poster pointed out, Josh owes BB for "giving" him several of our cast-offs. The debt for that, and for mentoring him into a HC position in the NFL has not been repaid. BB is just waiting for the right time to ask.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I respect your opinion but beg to differ Cousin.

Two items I will mention could change your mind if you are indeed, open minded. The first example is this year's Saints. No explanation needed. Trades and FAs made them win the SB. The 07 Patriots had 63 Players go through their roster during the season. 27 of them were FAs, Trades or street pick ups. That is 42% of the Team. Those above you listed contributed for sure, but not to surpass the quality in the FA class.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that FA isn't key to building a championship team. Of course it is. But if 42% of the team is FAs, trades, and street pick-ups, then the other 58% is guys you drafted, and you have to hit on those guys.

What do Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Jermon Bushrod, Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Malcolm Jenkins, Tracy Porter, Sedrick Ellis, Will Smith, and Garrett Hartley have in common? They were all drafted (or UDFAed in Pierre's case) by the Saints, and Smith, at 28, is the only one that's older than 27. I'll agree that they skew more towards FA than most teams, but the fact stands that they wouldn't even be in that position in the first place if they weren't hitting on their draft picks.

Therefore, if the Pats want to sustain success into the future, then they have to hit on some draft picks, and hit hard. 2009 was a great start, IMO, and the four second-rounders that they have coming up give them a fantastic chance to build the foundation for another SB run. As upstater said before, rather than trying to hedge their bets, I'd rather they keep the picks and rely on them to hit on them. Because at the end of the day, if the Pats can't hit on picks, they won't remain competitive.

Everyone talks about how Greer and Sharper turned around the Saints' secondary, but I'd go out on a limb and say that Porter and Jenkins (23 and 22 y/o) had more than a little to do with it, as well.

And that's the point: even in the most extreme example, which you just gave, the Saints were only in the position to get over the hump with FA signings because they drafted *very* well over the past few years. So I stand by my original point, which is that NFL teams can't succeed without drafting well. This is likely to be less true this year, without a cap, but the cap will come back and in a capped environment you can't compete without rookies giving valuable production on cost-effective contracts.

 

[glm]

Did you see them destroy jets defense (ranked #1 in NFL) in the 2nd half? They put 3 TDs before Jets even knew what hit them.

Did you see the second Pats/Jets game this year?

 

[bigfandan]

Did you see the second Pats/Jets game this year?

Jets-Colts AFC Championship game
Manning 26/39, 377 yards, 3td, 0 int
Sanchez 17/32, 257 yards, 2td, 1int

Pats-Jets 2nd Game (week 11)

Brady 28/41, 310, 1td, 0 int
Sanchez 8/21, 136, 1 td, 4 int

Manning had an more efficient game but Brady did pretty well also. Sanchez played much better towards the season's end.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, you see BB hugging and kissing his problem players after PC's.

That's when McDaniels was trying to make it work. After that, he wanted to keep the problem receiver away from the team. It kind of sounds like what BB did with Terry Glenn when he first came here.

Remember Orten is not Brady and remember super rookie Eddie Royal had a bad year in 2009 (Soph. slump?)
DW Toys

Not really sure where you are going with this.

They trailed jets 6-17; scored a quick TD just before half time to trail 13-17 at half; came out of half time and scored a quick TD again (20-17); scored on next two possessions (30-17), then milked clock and won the game 30-17. They basically beat up the #1 jets defense senseless.

Rex looked like he was about to cry.

In our game, our offense only scored one TD in the second half. Wasn't aware that you were talking about the Jets/Colts game though.

 

[Kontradiction]

Really? If you think a first year coach with a Napoleon-syndrome is in the same league as Belichick in handling problem players, then you really need to think a little harder.

The only reason McDaniels didn't lose total control of his team last year was by trading Cutler and, by miracle, winning his first 6 games with Orton, then by benching Marshall, his best TE, and another starter with the playoffs on the line, resulting in the worst end to the season imaginable to Broncos fans.

With the proper motivation and coaching, Marshall is as good as ANYONE in this league. And yes, as a previous poster pointed out, Josh owes BB for "giving" him several of our cast-offs. The debt for that, and for mentoring him into a HC position in the NFL has not been repaid. BB is just waiting for the right time to ask.

I never doubted Marshall's God given talent on the field. However, McD's approach to Marshall was similar to BB's approach with Glenn. As for a favor being collected by BB, don't count on it. Josh is coaching a direct AFC rival. I don't think he's going to do BB or the Pats any favors.