WR Jeremy Maclin

[TheKraftyOne]

would be rediculously SICK in our spread offense.

Your binky looked pretty good last night Briz.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not backpedaling from anything because it's the truth. Calvin Johnson is the #1 guy on the Lions and Holmes is #2 for the Steelers. And you think I'm exaggerating? Go back from the past five years and find all the receivers drafted in the first two rounds. More often then not they are putting up subpar numbers. Some aren't even playing. Just because two guys are playing well doesn't mean every WR drafted is some kind of instant lock. If you really want to go by stats you're flat out wrong. Because theres more flops than the two successes you pointed out, with Johnson being a top five pick anyways.

Yes, you DID backpedal and now you are attempting to spin your way out of your gross exaggeration. Just admit that you screwed the pooch here when you said "..ook at #1, #2 WRs from the past few years. None of them are putting up spectacular numbers.". I point out 2 instances and you spin it that they are the top receivers on their team as if that doesn't contradict what you said. I have news for you. It does contradict what you said and it shows you made a gross exaggeration.


I don't need to go back through the past 5 years of the draft to look at all the receivers who were taken and what their numbers are. Why? Because I only need to point out ONE that makes your claim of NONE to be wrong.

No where did I say anything about WRs who were drafted high to being locks. On the contrary. Here is what I said:

WRs and RBs are a crap shoot. Everyone knows that. Everyone thought that the Patriots stole Chad Jackson when they originally drafted him. And he busted because of injuries and his inability to earn the trust of the QB plus his slowness in learning the play-book.

I lit into you for telling us what everyone on this board already knows. You didn't offer up anything NEW in regards to WRs being a crap shoot.

Instead of attemtping to spin your way out of it, just admit that you mispoke when you said NONE and move on. Don't sit there and make it worse by trying to spin your way out of it. It makes you look like a fool.

 

[PatsFan2]

would be rediculously SICK in our spread offense.

Briz after i was all for that bust Chad Jackson and seeing how he was sent packing...i got a little down on WR's which is by far my favorite position on the Football Field. I have to admit though one have to blind not to see all World Potential in Jeremy Maclin. Doesn't he look like Indy's WR Reggie Wayne? i don't think we can go wrong there if he's around. I am glad some of us around here not u BRiZ ain't running the Patriots war room. Just by looking at his number and his consistency WR Jeremy Maclin looks like a sure thing.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Re: WR Jeremy Macklin

Briz - You need to remember that value isn't just based on the physical and intangible assets that the player has, but also on the need of the team. My guess is that WR isn't going to be considered a big need on this team in comparison to Safety, ILB, OLB, CB, OT, OG, DE, and NT. Just like RB isn't going to be considered a big need.

P.S. - Is Maclin eligible for this year's draft?

I think WR is a definite need and I'll be surprised if they don't do something in the draft to upgrade the position. Moss will be 32 next year and injuries come a lot easier to aging legs. They need another player with #1 talent IMO. If Moss goes down it won't be pretty and Brady might need seven seconds(exagerration) to find an open player with Welker being doubled. Not something you want your Qb and best player to have to do coming off knee surgery. Gaffney, Slater and Aiken don't have big time skills and Gaffney might be gone unless they can live with the drops and resign him. He's the best of those three but not a #1 or #2.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

We can all pretty much forget about Maclin. Coyle has him going to the Raiders with the 4th pick.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

A player to keep an eye on at WR is OSU's Sammie Stroughter. He's got an NFL body, is tough, can block and runs well. He doesn't have the elite speed of Maclin but did a good job returning punts. Oh and one thing the Pats can use...good hands. Check him out at Youtube, he looks like a Hines Ward type and he also had a good day yesterday against Pitt. He came back from a lacerated kidney so that may keep him off some boards or lower than he should be talent-wise. Not sure about any other issues.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: WR Jeremy Macklin

I think WR is a definite need and I'll be surprised if they don't do something in the draft to upgrade the position. Moss will be 32 next year and injuries come a lot easier to aging legs. They need another player with #1 talent IMO. If Moss goes down it won't be pretty and Brady might need seven seconds(exagerration) to find an open player with Welker being doubled. Not something you want your Qb and best player to have to do coming off knee surgery. Gaffney, Slater and Aiken don't have big time skills and Gaffney might be gone unless they can live with the drops and resign him. He's the best of those three but not a #1 or #2.

I still don't see WR being such a need that the Patriots need to expend a high draft pick or a draft pick at all on it. There is a lot of WR talent available this off-season. Also, the Pats have only had success with one 2nd round WR they drafted and that was Deion Branch. Now, I don't know if they can have Brady around to throw passes to a player during a workout, but if they can, then they need to do that when considering a WR. Because that was supposedly the whole issue with Jackson is that Brady couldn't get comfortable throwing to him. I don't know if Brady took the time with Jackson that he did with Reche Caldwell to help build that trust, but its something to consider going forward. IF its allowed.

WR is actually a pretty weak position this year unless more juniors declare. Maclin, being a 3rd year Sophomore, will probably be at the top of the WR rankings, but I doubt he's worth the 4th over-all pick. And, if Al Davis makes that pick, the league should really take the team away from him or have him declared mentally unfit or something.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Re: WR Jeremy Macklin

I still don't see WR being such a need that the Patriots need to expend a high draft pick or a draft pick at all on it. There is a lot of WR talent available this off-season. Also, the Pats have only had success with one 2nd round WR they drafted and that was Deion Branch. Now, I don't know if they can have Brady around to throw passes to a player during a workout, but if they can, then they need to do that when considering a WR. Because that was supposedly the whole issue with Jackson is that Brady couldn't get comfortable throwing to him. I don't know if Brady took the time with Jackson that he did with Reche Caldwell to help build that trust, but its something to consider going forward. IF its allowed.

WR is actually a pretty weak position this year unless more juniors declare. Maclin, being a 3rd year Sophomore, will probably be at the top of the WR rankings, but I doubt he's worth the 4th over-all pick. And, if Al Davis makes that pick, the league should really take the team away from him or have him declared mentally unfit or something.

We'll know more when players finally declare. Right now I don't see anyone that would be worth the 24th pick if that's what they end up with. In a perfect world I'd like to see them get a player with #1 skills but right now I'm basically looking at lower round players that could turn into good value. Stroughter looks like that kind of a player if he's there in the 6th round where Coyle has him. Mainly I like his toughness and hands. It's a wait and see how he times later deal although Coyle has him listed at a low of 4.37, He didn't look that fast to me but TAKE HIM if he runs that fast. I still see the need to do something to give Brady another legit weapon. Antonio Bryant??? BB has dealt with supposed head cases before with success.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: WR Jeremy Macklin

We'll know more when players finally declare. Right now I don't see anyone that would be worth the 24th pick if that's what they end up with. In a perfect world I'd like to see them get a player with #1 skills but right now I'm basically looking at lower round players that could turn into good value. Stroughter looks like that kind of a player if he's there in the 6th round where Coyle has him. Mainly I like his toughness and hands. It's a wait and see how he times later deal although Coyle has him listed at a low of 4.37, He didn't look that fast to me but TAKE HIM if he runs that fast. I still see the need to do something to give Brady another legit weapon. Antonio Bryant??? BB has dealt with supposed head cases before with success.

You know your stuff KraftyOne, i had Sammy Stroughter on a Sleepers list i was going to compile.

 

[BritPat]

Maclin at #4 would be a HUGE reach.

 

[PatsFan2]

KraftyOne; a WR i like in FA who i think would fit this Team perfectly is Devery Henderson from the Saints. Devery Henderson doesn't catch alot of balls but whe he does they are some Huge gainers. I think he would really stretch the field like Donte' Stallworth did for us in 2007. I really hope they let Gaffney walk if he had caught that TD pass in the Colts game we would be in the Playoffs. I think BB is going to remember that! here are Devery's career stats.

Devery Henderson: Career Stats

 

[PatsFan2]

Maclin at #4 would be a HUGE reach.

If you ask the question which player would able to raise their Draft stock the most? I would say it would be Jeremy Maclin...he has SURE THING written all over him.

 

[DaBruinz]

KraftyOne; a WR i like in FA who i think would fit this Team perfectly is Devery Henderson from the Saints. Devery Henderson doesn't catch alot of balls but whe he does they are some Huge gainers. I think he would really stretch the field like Donte' Stallworth did for us in 2007. I really hope they let Gaffney walk if he had caught that TD pass in the Colts game we would be in the Playoffs. I think BB is going to remember that! here are Devery's career stats.

Devery Henderson: Career Stats

Henderson's issue is the same that Stallworth's was. Health, Poor Route Running and Drops. I will give Henderson credit that he only had 2 drops this year, but he's not been great at hauling stuff in. And, lets not forget that he's had one of the top 5 QBs passing to him over the last 3 years.

Henderson hasn't caught more than 32 passes in any given year. Henderson never stepped up when Colston went down. Other players, such as Patton and Lance Moore, have been the ones stepping up and out-shining Henderson.

I just don't see how Henderson would be a fit with the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you ask the question which player would able to raise their Draft stock the most? I would say it would be Jeremy Maclin...he has SURE THING written all over him.

People said the same about Chad Jackson.

People said the same thing about David Terrell and Koren Robinson.

WRs extremely high in the draft are a crap shoot. You're as likely to draft a bust as you are to draft someone who will perform..

 

[PatsFan2]

Henderson's issue is the same that Stallworth's was. Health, Poor Route Running and Drops. I will give Henderson credit that he only had 2 drops this year, but he's not been great at hauling stuff in. And, lets not forget that he's had one of the top 5 QBs passing to him over the last 3 years.

Henderson hasn't caught more than 32 passes in any given year. Henderson never stepped up when Colston went down. Other players, such as Patton and Lance Moore, have been the ones stepping up and out-shining Henderson.

I just don't see how Henderson would be a fit with the Pats.

DaBruinz the Saints had possible the all hands Team of the NFL, they have a heck of alot of people who can catch the football. I think Henderson's role was to open things up, that's why i think he would fit nicely here. Also he would be catching pases from the Best QB in Football granted Brady is ready to go in 2009.

 

[PatsFan2]

People said the same about Chad Jackson.

People said the same thing about David Terrell and Koren Robinson.

WRs extremely high in the draft are a crap shoot. You're as likely to draft a bust as you are to draft someone who will perform..

Yeah we got burnt and those things happen alot at the WR position. But if we had taken Santonio Holmes or Greg Jennings we wouldn't be complaining.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah we got burnt and those things happen alot at the WR position. But if we had taken Santonio Holmes or Greg Jennings we wouldn't be complaining.

You don't know that Patsfan2. You and I have no idea how Holmes or Jennings would have developed with the Patriots.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

People said the same about Chad Jackson.

People said the same thing about David Terrell and Koren Robinson.

WRs extremely high in the draft are a crap shoot. You're as likely to draft a bust as you are to draft someone who will perform..

I just read a story about what constitutes a draft bust. The criteria they use to determine a successful pick is at least 56 starts in their first five seasons. For the years 1994-2003:

WR's selected with picks:
01-10: 66.7% achieve the above number of starts.
11-20: 30.8%
21-50: 29.3%
51-80: 23.5%
81-120: 7.3%

Through the 20th pick they fare better than Qbs and Rbs and roughly equate to the success rate of DEs. They are about the same as CBs selected 1-10 but the CBs do much better taken 11-20.

The success rate for all players and positions:
01-10: 70%
11-20: 50%
21-50: 35.3%
51-80: 21.3%
81-120: 8%

For picks 1-10 by position:
CB: 70%
DE: 71.4%
DT: 75%
LB: 75%
OT: 91.7%
QB: 57.1%
RB: 45.5%
S: 100%
TE: 100%
OG/C: 100%

The results of a few of those positions with high success rates are skewed due to fewer players taken.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz the Saints had possible the all hands Team of the NFL, they have a heck of alot of people who can catch the football. I think Henderson's role was to open things up, that's why i think he would fit nicely here. Also he would be catching pases from the Best QB in Football granted Brady is ready to go in 2009.

Patsfan2 - Do you remember why Stallworth ended up spending more time on the bench than he did playing as the season went along? Because he was a poor route runner. He couldn't do the things that the Pats needed him to do. Its why Gaffney ended up seeing more and more time. Its why Stallworth wasn't retained this year.

Henderson is a similar player in that he's a poor route runner. Do you really think that the Patriots, who got rid of a poor route runner in Stallworth, want to bring in another poor route runner? I don't.

If they sign someone, its much more likely to be Antonio Bryant or Bryant Johnson. Players who are good route runners, have good hands, and can complement both Moss and Welker.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Re: WR Jeremy Macklin

You know your stuff KraftyOne, i had Sammy Stroughter on a Sleepers list i was going to compile.

We must both be looking for "Patriot" types. There'll be a lot of Stroughter type names coming up until draft day comes..