WR in the 2015 draft

[Ochmed Jones]

Why? Tom brady has never been a back shoulder throwing guy. That is Jalen Strongs main strength!

Its all about receivers who run good routes, have good field vision, and are productive YAC receivers. This is Tom's bread and butter.

Strong is really an outside the numbers only route runner and we know bb does not like wr's that do not run a complete route tree.

 

[BobDigital]

I don't like to look at WRs by rank alone. I also like to look at them by system right and strengths our team could use.

Assuming we keep Amendola for a while we are good with underneath guys that get YAC. We could use other outside options to compliment Lafell and guys to stretch the field either vertically or horizontally.

Big WRs are always nice but with Gronk/Wright/Lafell I feel like the Pats have enough big targets for red zone. Doesn't mean I won't take another but it is not something i worry about.

All that said the WRs i am looking at are...

Phillip Dorsett
Stefon Diggs
Tony Lippett

Which are potential 3rd round picks that have speed and are not overly small.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Funchess and Coates are 2 WRs I like. But I think OL and DE are a bigger priority.

I really like Coates as well. He fits our offense really well.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I really like Coates as well. He fits our offense really well.

How so? He is very raw as a route runner. His main asset is his deep ball. Tom brady isn't the best deep ball thrower any more. For heaven sakes even Jimmy G has a better deep ball at this point. We don't need another raw deep ball burner, we have Dobson.

 

[manxman2601]

How so? He is very raw as a route runner. His main asset is his deep ball. Tom brady isn't the best deep ball thrower any more. For heaven sakes even Jimmy G has a better deep ball at this point. We don't need another raw deep ball burner, we have Dobson.

The deep ball is the one thing this offence lacks. Coates has the potential to at least threaten the last level of the defence, maybe pull a safety away from the play. He has flaws but his height, wingspan and athleticism all suggest he can 'go and get" a Brady deep ball moreso than any other receiver on the team. I've said that Coates' floor is Stephen Hill and I think his ceiling is a Dez Bryant or Demaryious Thomas but in the short term, I'd be happy with a Martavis Bryant.

One other possibility is Devin Smith. He doesn't have the athletic all round package of Coates, but he can do this:

Who does this remind me of?

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

The deep ball is the one thing this offence lacks. Coates has the potential to at least threaten the last level of the defence, maybe pull a safety away from the play. He has flaws but his height, wingspan and athleticism all suggest he can 'go and get" a Brady deep ball moreso than any other receiver on the team. I've said that Coates' floor is Stephen Hill and I think his ceiling is a Dez Bryant or Demaryious Thomas but in the short term, I'd be happy with a Martavis Bryant.

One other possibility is Devin Smith. He doesn't have the athletic all round package of Coates, but he can do this:

Who does this remind me of?

Yeah I understand the benefits the team would seek to gain with a receiver who can take the top off of things. My only problems is, Im not willing to give up the high pick that would be needed to get Smith or Coates, at least not when we still have Dobson, who we used a 2nd round pick for just two years ago. I don't see the possible reward, worth the price. I personally think we should draft a speedster in two years. This way it allows the speedster (which always seem to be raw players) two years to adjust and get ready, then when Jimmy takes over, it will be the perfect player for his beautiful deep ball. its all about those "5 P's" Prior planing prevents poor performance.
Not taking anything away from Coates or Smith. I just don't feel right now is the right time.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

The deep ball is the one thing this offence lacks. Coates has the potential to at least threaten the last level of the defence, maybe pull a safety away from the play. He has flaws but his height, wingspan and athleticism all suggest he can 'go and get" a Brady deep ball moreso than any other receiver on the team. I've said that Coates' floor is Stephen Hill and I think his ceiling is a Dez Bryant or Demaryious Thomas but in the short term, I'd be happy with a Martavis Bryant.

One other possibility is Devin Smith. He doesn't have the athletic all round package of Coates, but he can do this:

Who does this remind me of?

Manx, What your opinion on this matter.? I was going to make a post about it, but got lazy.

Ive spent way to much time thinking of possible ways to get rid of Danny Amendola. I think when I first joined the site not to long ago, you were apart of a conversation that I was involved in. At the time, I guess you could say, I overestimated his value. I thought we might be able to dump him off to a team like the Raiders for a late round draft pick. Only a team with a lot of cap room could afford him.
So I was thinking, I wonder if the Jaguars would be willing to trade Danny Amendola and our 3rd or TB's 4th, for Justin Blackmon. Or maybe even maybe Dobson and Danny Amendola, or Danny Amendola and Kyle Arrington. I personally think this would be a great attempt to rid some of our cap casualties. If we traded players, we could draft their replacements with that pick. I personally think the Danny Amendola and Kyle Arrington trade would make a lot of sense for both teams. This would give the Jags Allen Robbison (6'3) and Allen Hurns (6'3) to man the outside, and Marquis Lee, and Amendola to man the slots. Bottles Had a lot of success in college with a very similar type of receiving core.

Blackmons status is still up in the air, and the Jaguars would be smart if they did everything they could to try to surround Bortles with Talent. They have 60 million in cap space, but since they're the Jaguars, they will still have a hard time attracting top talent. All of this on top of the fact that they're desperate for draft picks because they have so many holes to fill, might actually make it a possibility. Honestly, I believe Blackmon is the perfect kind of receiver for our offense. He is great at creating separation, attacking the ball, and acquiring yards after the catch. Like Ive mentioned around here many time's. This is Tom bread and butter. Get open, and hell hit you perfectly in stride, and bam, you gain another 15 yards after the catch. If all of this happens to be your specialty, then this becomes a very dangerous subject.

Yes Blackmon comes with the risk, and also some uncertainty, especially considering he could be a 5 million dollar sitting dud if things didn't work out. However we all know that Bill has been able to turn players around before. I also think Mr.Kraft's "friendship" with Mr.Goodell would almost certainly remove any of the "uncertainty" about Blackmon possibly sitting out more time.

 

[Luxusdk]

You can't teach stupid was the best thing Jimmy Johnson learned BB... You keep aiming for "Stupid" ppl hawaaiian, have to ask are you attracted to "stupid" ppl? ( DGB - Lydela - Blackmon - Gordon etc ) BB would NEVER use a high pick or even $ on a "stupid" player. Medical stuff Patriots offen look by but not "stupid"

 

[kennyb]

Coates has frying pans for hands.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

You can't teach stupid was the best thing Jimmy Johnson learned BB... You keep aiming for "Stupid" ppl hawaaiian, have to ask are you attracted to "stupid" ppl? ( DGB - Lydela - Blackmon - Gordon etc ) BB would NEVER use a high pick or even $ on a "stupid" player. Medical stuff Patriots offen look by but not "stupid"

First off I look at things from a finer perspective.
DGB : That's an idiot! Domestic abuse, along with multiple drug incidents. No thank you. I have no interest in him.
Gordon : Although I think the NFL is harsh on him. I think he's a idiot also. Ill pass! I have no interest in him either.

Colt : I don't find him "stupid" He's made a few mistakes, but he's not a repeat offender, or has he done anything on the level of assault, or weapons charges etc etc. He was a 20 year old kid, with no direction. You should do some real research on someone before you call them "stupid". I can almost guarantee you Bill would have considered Colt last year if it wasn't for his Sandy Hook conspiracy post, and the fact that he was a troubled TE a year after the whole Hernandez fiasco.

Blackmon : He can be considered "stupid" to some extent I guess, however his situation is real complicated to the point where I think there is hope in him. When Blackmon was coming out of college, there was one thing that all the scouting repots keep bringing up, his "Passion for the game , and his drive to want to win" They said he was basically as big of a competitor as you could ever find. This alone makes him a great Patriot candidate. If you have a passion to want to win, New England is the place for you!

Let me ask you something, have you only been a patriots fan since 2012? Because you said "BB never would use a draft pick or money on a "stupid player" Are you kidding me? Randy Moss????, Hernandez, and most recently Blount, these are just a few of the players who have made "stupid" mistakes, only for bill to take a chance with them.

Im not suggesting we try to acquire violent players, like Ray Rice, or Greg Hardy. People with felony gun charges etc etc. Im suggesting we acquire players who have gotten in a little trouble with silly drug related league violations. These aren't Horrible people!

Im a believer that people are often a product of their environment. This is why we have such great success in NE. These "stupid" players often come from places that offer no support, or no hope, which sometime leads to incidents like these. When I suggest NE as a shot at turning certain players around, its because I believe they are the best team in the league at doing so. We've been doing it for years.

You know a player I believe might be in trouble himself, if he weren't drafted to New England. Gronkowski! He also had character concerns coming out of college. The difference is, he was drafted to a real team, a serious team, with serious hope's & plans of winning. It creates an environment, an atmosphere then brings the best out in people, and helps them hide their inner demons. The only thing you can think about is winning, because it is actually a reality. Why do you think we rarely have players who screw up off of the field (excluding AH)

You say "stupid" as if we are building rockets. (Cameron Fleming might actually be) This is Football, this kind of "stupid" can be fixed. It just has to be done in the right place. There is no better place for this then NEW ENGLAND!

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Coates has frying pans for hands.

Awesome description! I literally have this vision in my head of him dropping passes this year, but now with big frying pan hands. lmao

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

You can't teach stupid was the best thing Jimmy Johnson learned BB... You keep aiming for "Stupid" ppl hawaaiian, have to ask are you attracted to "stupid" ppl? ( DGB - Lydela - Blackmon - Gordon etc ) BB would NEVER use a high pick or even $ on a "stupid" player. Medical stuff Patriots offen look by but not "stupid"

First off I look at things from a finer perspective.
DGB : Thats an idiot! Domestic abuse, along with multiple drug incidents. No interest in him. never said I liked him!
Gordon : Although I think the NFL is harsh on him. I think he's a idiot too. I have no interest in him.

Now Colt, I don't find him "stupid" He's made a few mistakes, but he's not a repeat offender, or has he done anything on the level of assault. He was a 20 year old kid, with no direction. You should do some real research on someone before you call them "stupid". I can almost guarantee you Bill would have considered Colt last year if it wasn't for his Sandy Hook conspiracy post.

Blackmon, He can be considered "stupid" to some extent I guess, however his situation is real complicated to the point where I think there is hope in him.

Let me ask you something, have you only been a patriots fan since 2012? Because you said "BB never would use a draft pick or money on a stupid player" Are you kidding me? Moss, Hernandez, and most recently Blount, are just a small portion of players who have made "stupid" mistakes, only for bill to take a chance with them.

Im not suggesting we try to acquire violent players, like Ray Rice, or Greg Hardy. Im suggesting we acquire players who have gotten in a little trouble with silly drug related, league violations. These aren't Horrible people!

Im a believer that people are often a product of their environment. Thats is why we have such great success in NE. These "stupid" players often come from places that offer no support, or no hope, which sometime leads to incidents like these. When I suggest NE as a shot at turning things around, its because I believe are team is the best in the league at doing so. We've been doing it for years my friend.

You know a player I believe might be in trouble himself, if he weren't drafted to New England. Gronkowski! He also had character concerns coming out of college. The difference is, he was drafted to a team that is a real team, and serious team, with serious hope's & plans of winning. It creates an environment, and atmosphere then brings the best out in people, and helps them hide their inner demons. The only thing you can think about is winning, because it is actually a reality. Why do you think we rarely have players who screw up off, of the field (excluding AH) Do you just think

Everything about this leagues structure is designed to prevent long term success. If you want to stay on top, the reality is, you have to take a few chances with players like these every so often. When you bring in players like this, its a risk/reward thing. With a little extra tender loving care, you can get great players at mediocre prices. Its part of the whole GM'ing process. Move's like these separate the good GM's from the great GM's. Just say we got Blackmon, and he turned out to get his **** turned around. When you go to renegotiate a contract with him, down the road, you carry a lot more leverage. You cam often get great deals this way.Sometimes things don't go as planed (i.e Hernandez) and you are forced to bite the bullet (7 million) and still win championships.
Risk vs reward!

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

QUOTE="Luxusdk, post: 4117177, member: 31741"]You can't teach stupid was the best thing Jimmy Johnson learned BB... You keep aiming for "Stupid" ppl hawaaiian, have to ask are you attracted to "stupid" ppl? ( DGB - Lydela - Blackmon - Gordon etc ) BB would NEVER use a high pick or even $ on a "stupid" player. Medical stuff Patriots offen look by but not "stupid"[/QUOTE]

First off I look at things from a finer perspective.
DGB : Thats an idiot! Domestic abuse, along with multiple drug incidents. No interest in him. never said I liked him!
Gordon : Although I think the NFL is harsh on him. I think he's a idiot too. I have no interest in him.

Colt : I don't find him "stupid" He's made a few mistakes, but he's not a repeat offender, or has he done anything on the level of assault. He was a 20 year old kid, with no direction. You should do some real research on someone before you call them "stupid". I can almost guarantee you Bill would have considered Colt last year if it wasn't for his Sandy Hook conspiracy post.

Blackmon :I guess he can be considered "stupid" to some extent I. However his situation is real complicated to the point where I think there is hope in him. When Blackmon was coming out of college, all scouts could talk about was his "passion for the game, and drive to want to win" They said he was as big of a competitor as you will ever find. This alone makes him a great candidate for the Patriots. When you have this drive, you almost always succeed in New England.

Let me ask you something, have you only been a patriots fan since 2012? Because you said "BB never would use a draft pick or money on a stupid player" Are you kidding me? Moss???, Hernandez, and most recently Blount. These are just a few of the players who have made "stupid" mistakes, only for bill to take a chance with them.

Im not suggesting we try to acquire violent players, like Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, or players with felony convictions and charges. Im suggesting we acquire players who have gotten in a little trouble with silly drug related league violations. These aren't Horrible people!

Im a believer that people are often a product of their environment. This is why we have such great success in NE. These "stupid" players often come from team's that offer no support, or no hope, which can sometime lead to incidents like these. When I suggest NE as a shot at turning things around, its because I believe they are the best in the league at doing so. We've been doing it for years!

You know a player I believe might be in trouble himself, if he weren't drafted to New England. Gronkowski! He also had character and maturity concerns coming out of college. The difference is, he was drafted to a team a real team, a serious team, with serious hope's & plans of winning. It creates an environment, an atmosphere that brings the best out in people, and helps them hide their inner demons. The only thing you can think about is winning, because it is actually a reality. Why do you think we rarely have players who screw up off, of the field (excluding AH).

Everything about this leagues structure is designed to prevent long term success. If you want to stay on top, the reality is, you have to take a few chances with players like these every so often. When you bring in players like this, its a risk/reward thing. With a little extra tender loving care, you can get great players at mediocre prices. Its part of the whole GM'ing process. Move's like these separate the good GM's from the great GM's. Just say we got Blackmon, and he turned out to get his **** turned around. When you go to renegotiate a contract with him, down the road, you carry a lot more leverage. You cam often get great deals this way.Sometimes things don't go as planed (i.e Hernandez) and you are forced to bite the bullet (7 million) and still win championships.
Risk vs reward!

 

[Luxusdk]

Moss Patriots gave a 4th for, Blound was a 7th - For me thats nothing really. Then after time in the system they earn a second option.

Hernandez had huge "stupid" flags, but was a very good player. BB took a chance with him, but Again, a late 4th round pick. He made a mistake, Patriots payed bigtime cause of that ( "Death"money / reputation etc ) and probably also made sure a guy like Lyerla wont get a chance in Patriots, ever.

Another thing, if Lyerla was worth a gamble then im sure Chip Kelly would invite him to Eagles, but since he avoid him, ppl should probably do so same.

Gronk had a HUGE Medical flag do to hes back surgery, but not the "stupid" flag as the other ppl has, as fare as i know.

 

[manxman2601]

Manx, What your opinion on this matter.? I was going to make a post about it, but got lazy.

Ive spent way to much time thinking of possible ways to get rid of Danny Amendola. I think when I first joined the site not to long ago, you were apart of a conversation that I was involved in. At the time, I guess you could say, I overestimated his value. I thought we might be able to dump him off to a team like the Raiders for a late round draft pick. Only a team with a lot of cap room could afford him.
So I was thinking, I wonder if the Jaguars would be willing to trade Danny Amendola and our 3rd or TB's 4th, for Justin Blackmon. Or maybe even maybe Dobson and Danny Amendola, or Danny Amendola and Kyle Arrington. I personally think this would be a great attempt to rid some of our cap casualties. If we traded players, we could draft their replacements with that pick. I personally think the Danny Amendola and Kyle Arrington trade would make a lot of sense for both teams. This would give the Jags Allen Robbison (6'3) and Allen Hurns (6'3) to man the outside, and Marquis Lee, and Amendola to man the slots. Bottles Had a lot of success in college with a very similar type of receiving core.

Blackmons status is still up in the air, and the Jaguars would be smart if they did everything they could to try to surround Bortles with Talent. They have 60 million in cap space, but since they're the Jaguars, they will still have a hard time attracting top talent. All of this on top of the fact that they're desperate for draft picks because they have so many holes to fill, might actually make it a possibility. Honestly, I believe Blackmon is the perfect kind of receiver for our offense. He is great at creating separation, attacking the ball, and acquiring yards after the catch. Like Ive mentioned around here many time's. This is Tom bread and butter. Get open, and hell hit you perfectly in stride, and bam, you gain another 15 yards after the catch. If all of this happens to be your specialty, then this becomes a very dangerous subject.

Yes Blackmon comes with the risk, and also some uncertainty, especially considering he could be a 5 million dollar sitting dud if things didn't work out. However we all know that Bill has been able to turn players around before. I also think Mr.Kraft's "friendship" with Mr.Goodell would almost certainly remove any of the "uncertainty" about Blackmon possibly sitting out more time.

Blackmon is on his final warning. Another black mark against him and could be banned for life - he's already on an indefinite ban right now. He has serious substance abuse issues and I wouldn't trade a 7th for him. I'm loathe to draft serious character issue players right now because the zeitgeist in the NFL is against them. I haven't even watched a single second of film of DGB because he's completely off my radar as a women beater and drug abuser. These players are just too much of a risk, especially in the early rounds.

And I would rather keep a talented commuted guy like Amendola over these idiots, although I accept your point that he'll probably be cut.


As for Sammie Coates, I'm not saying we should draft him, merely that his athletic ability and size intrigue me.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

I have not gotten too in depth with WR yet, but here are my thoughts on guys I have watched so far.

1. I like Lippett and I like Hardy.

2. I am a no go on Rashaad Greene. One thing that stuck out to me on his tape is his struggle to catch contested balls.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Coates ran the whole route tree in college, but the highlight plays are him chasing down the deep balls. But malzahn had him run all the routes.

The only question I have with Coates is can he learn the playbook and gain Brady's trust. Many have tried and many have failed. For every branch, there is a Jackson.

I think bb is better off going after another young vet who played with a poor qb.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Coates ran the whole route tree in college, but the highlight plays are him chasing down the deep balls. But malzahn had him run all the routes.

The only question I have with Coates is can he learn the playbook and gain Brady's trust. Many have tried and many have failed. For every branch, there is a Jackson.

I think bb is better off going after another young vet who played with a poor qb.

I like Cecil shorts.

 

[meatface]

Blackmon is on his final warning. Another black mark against him and could be banned for life - he's already on an indefinite ban right now. He has serious substance abuse issues and I wouldn't trade a 7th for him. I'm loathe to draft serious character issue players right now because the zeitgeist in the NFL is against them. I haven't even watched a single second of film of DGB because he's completely off my radar as a women beater and drug abuser. These players are just too much of a risk, especially in the early rounds.

And I would rather keep a talented commuted guy like Amendola over these idiots, although I accept your point that he'll probably be cut.


As for Sammie Coates, I'm not saying we should draft him, merely that his athletic ability and size intrigue me.

I know he has had a lot of problems but if jax wants a 7th for that guy in would do it in a heartbeat so long as he was no longer suspended.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I know he has had a lot of problems but if jax wants a 7th for that guy in would do it in a heartbeat so long as he was no longer suspended.

They won't give him up for a 7th. They have 60 million in cap space, and have nothing to lose by sitting on him. Besides the potential to gain players or draft picks. A 7th round pick would make no-sense on their part.

However considering 2 of our 3 6th round picks, and our only 7th didn't even make the 52 man roster, or practice squad. You have to think he is at least worth a 6th round pick. lol

I made a little mistake when I originally tried to make a case for Blackmon. I was looking at his 2014 salary thinking it was his 2015 salary. His 2014 cap hit was 2.2 million, where his 2015 is like 4.5. I thougth that, even if he didn't pan out, taking a 2.2 million hit wouldn't be that bad. However taking nearly a 5 million dollar hit, and getting zero production would be a problem. So Im not as high on the thought of that trade anymore.