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WR: if Pats re-sign Edelman and Lloyd, are we stronger at WR than we were last season

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Leemo, Mar 27, 2013.

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  1. Leemo

    Leemo Rookie

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    losing welker, gaining amendola and jones....
  2. nekromantique

    nekromantique Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Roughly equal, potentially better.

    It'd be a younger, more athletic Core than Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman.

    But where Lloyd and Edelman may develop better chemistry with Brady in another year, Amendola and Jones are a fresh start.

    If everyone can remain healthy, and Amendola/Jones mesh quickly with Brady, i'd say its a solid upgrade over last year.
  3. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    hard to know. If Brady can trust the other receivers then its good to have more than one big threat or go to guy.

    Heres hoping.
  4. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    I'm interested in, but by no means sold on, the idea floated here in a number of posts, that with Welker gone, we may be better at QB.
  5. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Until Amendola plays an entire season, we are weaker.

    I'm hopeful and I've moved on from Welker, but I'm trying to be objective here.
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Depth-wise, the Pats are stronger. Weaker at the top. If Amendola stays healthy, they are better. If he doesn't, not so much.
  7. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Well Edelman is the same

    After a year with Brady, but a year older lets call Lloyd a small upgrade

    Jones is a small to potentially great upgrade from branch last year who did almost nothing....this range for Jones from small to great is dependent on chemistry level with Brady

    The tricky assessment has to do with Amendola, that I would say is a small to massive downgrade from Wes...the specific level depends on chemistry with Brady and durability, however Wes age is also taken into account, and so is the
    Extra versatility provided by Danny...if Danny can have same chemistry with Brady that Wes did, and can stay healthy, he can get close to Wes production as an individual, but due to the more mismatches he represents on the field for our offense he may be more helpful to the offense as a whole
  8. DocHoliday

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    WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last season

    We don't know anything about Jones. He has a no guaranteed contract and for all we know is nothing more than this years camp Gaffey or Stallworth or Gonzalez or ....
  9. VOODOOZF

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    How could anyone in their right mind say the Patriots are better off with Amendola than Welker?

    Wes Welker is arguably the greatest slot WR of all time. The man has been responsible for over 30% off all Tom Brady's passes and caught more than 100 balls every year he has been with the Patriots. Did I mention he has been an ironman compared to Amendola?

    I don't argue that Amendola is a quality option when healthy, but there is little evidence that he is in same league as Welker on the rare occasion that he has been healthy. The man has only played in 11 games over the last two years and has 64 catches in that time.

    The Pats have downgraded themselves at the WR position for reasons only they can explain. If they truly wanted Welker they could have had him for a few dollars more. Fact if the matter is Belichick didnt truly want Welker back for personal reasons. Simply watch the first couple of games from last season when the Pats clearly tried to phase Welker out in favor of the very mediocre Julian Edelman. All of which is infuriating when one considers how much under the cap the Pats are and how they have yet to fill positions of need. Felger is correct when he suggests the Patriots are in search of a great deal rather than a great player. Tom Brady is getting too old for this type of nickel and dime approach to the f/a market.

    At the moment the Patriots are worse than they were at the end of last season and that is inexcusable considering how much cap space they have to play with and the players who were on the market at very reduced rates.
  10. Wilfork#75

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    I think you would have to say weaker, and right now considerably. Welker's strength was his durability, consistency and chemistry with Brady. Until Amendola can show any of those things I think its a major downgrade. If he stays healthy and build that relationship with Brady then I don't think the drop off will be that far, but I certainly don't think he will ever be as good as Wes Welker.

    I don't see Lloyd back, but even if he does come back his production will be much lower. The only reason he put up decent looking numbers is because of the number of targets he got while we fed him the ball trying to get him going in the offense. Now we know what we have in him Brady won't give him anywhere near the amount of targets and his numbers will drop considerably. I don't think cutting him was purely about money, I just don't think he is as good as we thought and not worth the headache.

    I like Edelman and would re-sign him, but he isn't a primary target and his value mainly comes from his versatility. Right now I think Jones is 50/50 even making the roster so I wouldn't consider him an upgrade over anyone, even Branch. While Branch may not have had anything physically, he still had that connection with Brady. Overall I think our WR group has taken a step back so far, which is a concern considering I thought it was our 2nd biggest need going into free agency. Things can certainly change though with the draft.

    With the depth and talent of this WR draft class I would love to get two guys in the 2nd/3rd round. Then maybe a late round or UDFA to compete in camp as well. Sign some vets for competition and then we could have the makings of a decent WR group. Ideally we could have something like this:

    WR- Amendola
    WR- Edelman
    WR- 2nd round pick (Hopkins, Hunter, Wheaton)
    WR- 3rd round pick (Rogers, T. Williams, Patton)
    WR- Jones/vet FA/late round pick (Marquess Wilson)

    To me that is starting to look pretty good. We still don't really have any guys with chemistry with Brady, but hopefully no Welker forces Brady to move the ball around a bit more.
  11. Bobs My Uncle

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    On paper they are vastly inferior. However, they play the games on the field so who knows until the balls start flying.
  12. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    I think if you're being generous, then you could say that we're roughly equal if that happens. Jones, if he sticks, would be an improvement over Branch at this point in Deion's career. Amendola is a downgrade from Welker. As of right now, there's no question that the WR position is weaker. Hopefully, the team has some tricks up its sleeve.
  13. PatsWickedPissah

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Weaker but within striking distance of better if Jones can actually play or Edes stays healthy and most importantly if we draft a beyond 10 yds WR or sign Wallace.
  14. Bruins29

    Bruins29 Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Why are we so worried about "last year?"

    Maybe we should think about the WR we had during our 3 Super Bowls?????

    That group wasnt exactly lighting the world on fire yet somehow we won 3 Lombardis with them.

    Hmmm
  15. VOODOOZF

    VOODOOZF Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    It's a different league today. Mediocre offense does not win Superbowls. Beyond that you have to take into account that the Patriots had a superior defense then compared to a defense that hasn't been able to get off the field on third down in years.
  16. MoneyFX

    MoneyFX Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Yeah I agree. It will make a nice WR corps if that happens. Regardless though, I hope they will bring in someone else from the draft, so much talent at the position this year.
  17. Bruins29

    Bruins29 Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Well, who says they were mediocre? Because they diddnt have one guy putting up HOF numbers?

    Our TE tandem is probably the best ever in the NFL. Dont see how or where we could be mediocre.

    Now lets focus on the defense you mentioned. Isn't it entirely possible that the FO is trying to put together a D like the one we had when we actually WON championships????

    Maybe, just maybe, that is the formula when you have the GOAT QB and TEs?????

    And maybe just maybe the chicken little idiots can stop harping over and over about the WR group, which is obviously in flux, and stop starting threads on it over and over?

    Can I get a just maybe?

    God is this place ridiculous.
  18. VOODOOZF

    VOODOOZF Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    I can tell you who got better at WR...The Denver Broncos.

    I still can't get over the fact that not only did the Patriots get worse at WR our main competition (Denver) got MUCH better and nobody can give a logical reason why.

    The thought of Arrington trying to cover Welker in the AFC Championship keeps me up at night.
  19. Bruins29

    Bruins29 Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Season start today?

    Is the WR the only position on the team?

    is Denver better in every other position?

    Is there any guarantee that WW and Manning will have the same chemistry as WW and TB or even WW and the Pats system.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    We'd be worse at WR. I'd still draft a WR.

    However, we might be better in the passing game, if Gronkowski and Hernandez (and Edelman) are healthy for more games than last year (and add Ballard).

    Clearly, we all understood that we might lose Welker and Branch. If we replace them with Amendola, Jones and a draftee (could be Sanders), brought in camp competition, then we did the best that we could. That of course presumes that we also don't have to replace Lloyd and Edelman.
  21. RelocatedPatFan

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    On paper we'd have to be declared weaker with lesser known elements replacing existing players.

    I would say the end result of our offense being better or worse than last year would be dependent on the health of Gronk and Hernandez. If they can remain healthy and 1 of the new WRs can gain Brady's trust we'd probably end up better.

    Still, it's the defense that has the most to prove and the largest gap from being elite. I think the only advantage of Welker being gone is that Brady won't be so honed in on one guy, but that had plenty to do with our dynamic duo of tight ends not being on the field at the same time as well.
  22. Nunchucks

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Did they really get that much better? How many more times a game can they throw the ball?
  23. DocHoliday

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    WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last season

    Johnny come lately...
  24. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Cousin, I think Edelman would be a better pick up than Lloyd. I think he can do more and play special Teams (DB?What?) and BB loves versatility.
    But I would say perfectly clear and an understatement is we cannot depend on a Draft pick WR. Three years is the development time when they come into their own. We don't have that time with TB12.

    Even WR talents like Green, Jones and Bryant struggled out the gate in their first year. Last years first round WR class of Jenkins, Blackmon, Wright and Flloyd were not the greatest contributors. They will get better but when?

    I have studied this WR class. They all have warts. Strangely the only one I will predict will make a difference right away is Stedman Bailey. He is probably a third rounder. All he did was make plays. The others are either lousy running routes, unrealiable hands, immature, don't like contact, to frail etc.
    Stedman is like 5"10 and 195. He reminds me of Steve Smith. All he does is make plays.......

    But that being said if right now is important to TB12, I think Sanders is better than anything they get in round three so adios with the third rounder. You would not have to give a pick for Danario Alexander to the Chargers and although a mid year addition he was rated as the most proficient NFL WR last year. Watch the tape. His speed is back. His cutting is back. His hands are great. I don't understand the lack of interest in 1 6'5" guy with speed who has overcome college injuries.He is not hurt know and feels great. No Draft pick Bill. Ya hear that? What if he gets hurt again?(see Gronk, Hernandez, Amandola etc. on our roster). Anyone can get hurt including TB12. We pray none of them do. You also have a BB Draft favorite of Jon Baldwin that can be had from Andy Reid. BB and Andy love Draft day swaps together.

    Fact -The best WRs on the Pats in the last six years have been Welker and Moss.....and they were?....trades.

    To say BB will pick up a right now contributing WR in this Draft is dangerous. I think even Bill knows he has weak points and WR and DBs are not his strong suit. A point was made last night on NFLN that the Past have drafted 10 DBs in the last five years including an over reach for Tavon Wilson. Yes he did not have a bad year considering but he would have done the same job if drafted in the fourth round. His production did not warrant a second round pick.

    Just in that second round after Wilson, the Pats could have had Kendall Reyes, DT, Connecticut to the Chargers, Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina to the Titans who was superb and Lavonte David, OLB, Nebraska Tampa was hurt but a big future. Would you trade any of these even up for Wilson right now? Of course. Back up Safety is about right for him. I hope I am dead wrong. Maybe he surpasses these few but I doubt it.

    O.K. I got way off point about the post but my opinion is for whatever reason his Drafts are good but WR and DB are not so much.

    The most talented DB on the Pats roster right now is....? Talib....and he is a ?....Trade.

    What I am saying is the Draft is nice but that is your development and depth for a Team like the Pats. Teams like Buffalo need plug and play Draftees. As example, I expect Jones will be a force in 2014 and Solder could be All Pro but three years is about right.

    I would rather take a guy like Hunt who has ST value (when was the last time the Past blocked a FG? It has been a couple years) and they say he is raw. Remember he is faster at 4.6 than some of our DBs and all of our LBs.

    So--------
    WR DA
    WR Sanders/Alexander/Baldwin
    WR Jones
    WR Edelman
    WR F/A like a Nelson or DHB who is still young or if Salas became available again as we could not hide him on the taxi squad.
    DW Toys
  25. DocHoliday

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    WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last season

    My thought is that if Edelman had continued staying healthy he would have overtaken Lloyd on the depth chart.

    After that Colts game it seemed ludicrous to not have him on the field as much as possible.
  26. bagwell368

    bagwell368 Rookie

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    They are better. Welker's drop % has been steadily increasing. He's been taking more and harder shots each year since his surgery. Manning doesn't throw as low to the ground as Brady, and he floats more, Welker is going to get jacked. Small WR's at age 32 and over fall off a cliff in terms of output on average.

    DA can play outside, in fact I expect him to mostly line up wide. I expect AH to line up wide and slot. That will get Ballard on the field. I expect Vereen to be on the field more as well. Lloyd should do somewhat better. JE can fight it out with Jones as the 4/5 WR - better and younger than the old men we had last year.

    His time is almost over.

    The actuarial tables say that DA has a lot more in tank than Welker. That NFC Coaches evaluation also said DA would do more here than Welker.

    So sorry, BB chose DA, and was pleased to have him. I'll take BB's evaluation over yours every time.

    With AH getting 75% of his snaps at slot/outside would you say that? How about add Lloyd and JE. Adding AH into the WR mix would make them as good even if DA caught 65 for a 11.5 average and Welker caught 130 for a 10.5 average.

    Sure. Welker and his agent beached about Wes's contract for years. Wes is well known as the most annoying joker on the team (hear the one about him dropping two live rats into a meeting of DB Coaches and players, shut the light off, and closed the door?). I'm told that he was much more of a loud mouth at meetings than Vrabel was - the former champ in that regard. Given his "tweek BB" comments and his "Jets foot" show I don't find it hard to believe at all.

    Coaches perogative. Also JE is better at several things over WW.

    You want to be taken seriously and quote Felger? I have underwear that knows more about the Pats than that eyebrowless freak.

    Take a sleeping pill and come back for the opening day of the season when we are likely for the 3rd year in a row to have the most picked over cuts in the NFL and we'll be in the top 5 in Vegas to win it. Too bad you're missing it over BB choosing against your binky.
  27. Bruins29

    Bruins29 Rookie

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    Re: WR: if Pats re-sign Edelman and Lloyd, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Sheer comedy. The WW stuff will never end. This team dosent go 19-0 we are going to have a board meltdown.
  28. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Lloyd had over 900 yards receiving in his first season with the Patriots. To date, Edelman has 714 yards receiving over three years. May I ask what made you believe that Edelman would have overtaken Lloyd?
  29. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    Re: WR - if we re-sign Edelman and Lloy, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    Yeah and our defense wasn't a complete sieve at that point.


    Our offense needs to score 30 points a game for us to win. Iirc we have only won like two or three games in the past two years where our offense didn't score 28+

    If our wrs sucked because we put a ton of money into the defense that'd be fine but instead we put money in an injury prone wr who can't stay on the field and a rt.

    On top of that the league has changed. It's no longer run first league.
  30. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    Re: WR: if Pats re-sign Edelman and Lloyd, are we stronger at WR than we were last se

    We have a career #4 wr and a career hospital case as our top two receivers. I was in the camp to want let welker walk but don't be a fool. Our wr position is a disaster right now.
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