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WR Competition


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I think we need our kick and punt returner to be able to do something else. Regardless of which 4 true WRs make the team (some think 5 will) Edelman will have no chance of seeing the field.


Edelman is the only PR/KR on the roster besides Welker. Edelman can also play CB. He'll make the team, but probably never play WR.

Slater is a pure ST guy, he won't count towards the WR numbers
 
I wouldn't lock in Branch or Gaffney. they are signed, but that don't mean jack. Either could lose out to Ocho, Stallworth or Gonzo
 
I don't like going into all this 'classifying a player as a WR or WR playing only STs' BS so lets just list them as their position states to avoid pure confusion.

Locks are Welker, Lloyd, Stallworth and Slater. Obviously we're assuming Welker signs his tender and plays under the tag or we sign him to a new deal. Lloyd and Stallworth give you your outside the numbers threat and Slater is a team captain and pro bowl special teamer.

I see two more WRs making it and I'm not sold on who yet.

Edelman is by no means a lock depending on how he performs in camp. I like him but he's gotta start competing for a spot on the field a lot more and doing more with it when he gets on the field as a WR. All this Edelman permanently to DB nonsense is BS. Edelman was exposed in the AFC Championship Game and pulled off of defense for the Super Bowl. Says a lot. It was a desperation move...a move Belichick won't want to repeat. He's a 'does everyone to a decent standard..not one thing great' kind of guy and you can pick those up off of the street. I think someone like Nate Ebner or Jeremy Eebert will be a serious threat to his roster spot if he can return punts and/or kicks, stealing his STs value. IMO Edelman is expendable.

I think Ochocinco is a stretch but, depending on what McD decides to do, he might find a niche. If the Pats move to a more vertical style of offense again this year, he could easily challenge for the #3 WR spot.

I would then like to see Ebert make the field. Hes young and a developmental prospect. If he shows enough in camp he could sneak onto the roster and sneak in some playing time here and there. He was very productive in a good conference for two years running in his junior and senior years, posted excellent numbers in drills and you can see a good football player on tape. Could be a better prospect than Edelman.

I see it this way; Lloyd, Welker, Stallworth, Slater, Gaffney/Ochocinco and Ebert.

Obviously we've seen none of these guys in camp or anything. Ebert could show up and do nothing at all. But I think he has higher upside to Edelman, is a better athlete and can be equally as productive on the STs side of thing sand NO...a WR will not be playing DB if Belichick has anything to say about ti this season so i can't see that factoring into his decision.
 
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Locks are Welker, Lloyd, Stallworth and Slater.

How is Stallworth (signed to a vet-minimum contract) a lock over Gaffney (signed for two years) and Branch ($400K in bonuses)?
 
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How is Stallworth (signed to a vet-minimum contract) a lock over Gaffney (signed for two years) and Branch ($400K in bonuses)?

Because I like him better? I mean...that's all this is right now. This should be called, in reality, 'Which WRs would you like to see make the roster the most?'.

Simple fact is, regardless of salary, most of these guys (bar two, three if you count Slater) aren't locks to make the team. If they don't perform in camp over the other guy, they're not going to be on the team/...simples :)

Until you watch these guys in camp, none of you or myself can say which player is a lock based on any reason or fact....because there isn't very much of that right now/

Guessing the roster is as meaningful as a mock draft or grading the 2012 draft class...but we do it because it passes the time :)
 
This was also going to be my surprise cut on the other thread, but while Lloyd connects with JMD, we have no idea how he does with Brady.

It's possible that they are oil and water and we get a repeat of Joey Galloway or Ochocinco, with the former being the best example of well-known WR coming here and bombing.

I don't state this as a prediction, just a possibility.
 
Reiss called for a Welker-Lloyd-Gaffney-Branch-Edelman-Slater group.

I object to counting Slater as a wide receiver at this point (it'd be like counting Vrabel as a tight end).

The guy should count either as safety or specialist.

I would be really intrigued to see how he is counted internally.

Either way - given how important offensive weapons have been to winning the Super Bowl of late (each year, it really seems whoever has the greatest number of difficult-to-defend weapons seems to win), I would rather carry an extra WR, if at all possible.

Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman is my group - with Slater counting towards safety.
 
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Reiss called for a Welker-Lloyd-Gaffney-Branch-Edelman-Slater group.

I object to counting Slater as a wide receiver at this point (it'd be like counting Vrabel as a tight end).

The guy should count either as safety or specialist.

I would be really intrigued to see how he is counted internally.

Either way - given how important offensive weapons have been to winning the Super Bowl of late (each year, it really seems whoever has the greatest number of difficult-to-defend weapons seems to win), I would rather carry an extra WR, if at all possible.

Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman is my group - with Slater counting towards safety.

I would certainly agree with your thinking here.

I would much rather carry an actual WR too. The main debate in the media and with us fans is obviously going to be 'where' to carry certain players like Slater, Edelman, etc.

It probably doesn't matter in the least to BB and the actual players though.

I'd agree with your WR core with the thought that Stallworth may be the one who is beat out by Johnson. It should be a good battle nonetheless.

Slater and Edelman are curious roster positons, but I couldn't see how they both don't make the team.
 
Branch is gone. If gonzos healthy I think he makes team
 
Because I like him better? I mean...that's all this is right now. This should be called, in reality, 'Which WRs would you like to see make the roster the most?'.

Simple fact is, regardless of salary, most of these guys (bar two, three if you count Slater) aren't locks to make the team. If they don't perform in camp over the other guy, they're not going to be on the team/...simples :)

Until you watch these guys in camp, none of you or myself can say which player is a lock based on any reason or fact....because there isn't very much of that right now/

Guessing the roster is as meaningful as a mock draft or grading the 2012 draft class...but we do it because it passes the time :)

I think that you are correct, at least on a very simplistic level (not saying that your thoughts are 'simplistic') ;)

Yes--whomever produces the most in TC and shows the best ability and chemistry with TFB will make the team...BUT I also think that what ctpatsfan77 is saying should be taken into acct too.

Belichick has done a pretty nice job of making the potential decision at WR 'not' about monetary value, since most of them are pretty cheap. But when trying to assess whether or not a guy like Gaffney is a lock or not, we should take into acct Tom Brady's words regarding him, his knowledge and rapport with Brady and the system in general, and the fact that he has continued to produce at a pretty high level with basically no one throwing him the ball in the past 2-3 yrs.

In my opinion, the general goal is always to improve the positions at #'s 1-x. We have already probably improved the WR2 and WR3 levels automatically, keeping the WR1 the same with Welker. It will be the other 2-3 WR positions that need improvement also, and Branch probably improves the WR4 position just by returning with a lowered level of expectation and production, which the obvious ability to start in a pinch.

If Johnson can show anything at all, one could make the argument that he would also improve the WR5 level. One may also assume that Belichick:

1. Sees something in him, whether that is potential, work ethic, the ability to improve as the year went on in some areas, or maybe even all of the above

2. He may even have a bit of a chip on his shoulder, or at least one may at least run this thought past their heads. Most would have been cut last yr, and there's the possibility that Belichick may be bound and determined to fit him in as some kind of productional value, or at the very least see him as possible depth. Before I go too far into conspiracy theories, the issue will lie mostly with whether or not Johnson is able to show improvements from last yr, but if he does...it's probably his job to lose, as much as most wouldn't want to hear that.

The wildcards of course, are:

1. "where" to include Slater and Edelman, assuming both make it

2. Whether or not a guy like Stallworth or Gonzalez can show more than the above three (Gaffney, Branch, Johnson) who ALL have some knowledge of the current system and likely better talent overall.

I would think that the main battle will come down to Johnson vs. Stallworth, with Gonzalez being the obvious odd man out, providing valuable camp fodder.

One thing is for sure, if any of the guys who are not favored to win a spot, end up showing up for a great TC, they will make the decision a lot harder..

And that brings us back around to your original point ;) But I would say there are several factors involved, one of which many are forgetting (which is injuries)...and the injury factor may end up sorting things out for us in the long run anyway.
 
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Branch is gone. If gonzos healthy I think he makes team

While I respect the fact that most will have a group of guys who they'd rather see as opposed to mine, we must remember the following:

--Branch still offers us very good value, especially as a WR4 or WR5, which would be a position that carries lowered expectations as opposed to the WR2 that he carried last yr.

--He has one of the best rapports and chemistry levels with our current QB out of the entire group, besides Welker.

--He still has a certain level of skillset that offers production, just not in the stretching the field sense that we needed to see at times from him. Besides his inability to beat man coverage, and his losing of a step or two, he can still put himself in a good position to help the team, and he is able to read and react to defenses on the same level as Brady...that is one of the most important aspects when trying to determine 'who' can produce and make it.

--If worst comes to worst on an injury level, Branch has certainly shown that he can step up and start, or at the very least give Brady a very comfortable target.

--Stallworth and Gonzalez (specifically Gonzalez) would seem to be the players who are going into the competition 'behind' the other candidates. I hope to see some great effort from Gonzo, as a true OSU fan I have always rooted for him on some level; but he has no prior knowledge of our system, no current ability to read and react in conjunction with our QB as far as the route tree goes, has not stayed healthy at all, and offers a skillset that is very similar to some of our other WR's.
 
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Yea IMO branch is gone. Lloyd, welker, Edelman, slater, gonzo, gaffney r my final 6. If injuries/trades then ebert/ocho r next up IMO
 
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Nobody seems to be giving Ebert much of a shot at making the team. After watching his highlights on Youtube the kid has talent. Suppose he comes in and he and Brady click like Brady and Gronk and Hernandez did. The kid has great speed and good hands. I will claim it now he is my surprise pick to make the team,:rocker:
 
Nobody seems to be giving Ebert much of a shot at making the team. After watching his highlights on Youtube the kid has talent. Suppose he comes in and he and Brady click like Brady and Gronk and Hernandez did. The kid has great speed and good hands. I will claim it now he is my surprise pick to make the team,:rocker:

I saw him play in person against Army last year, he stuck out to me then, I think he has a solid shot.
 
I saw him play in person against Army last year, he stuck out to me then, I think he has a solid shot.

You guys could be right, especially since the popular pattern and thought is that the last 1-2 WR spots will be used on players who can contribute on ST's.

Obviously, it will come down to what Ebert can show and pick up on in TC.

It may also come down to 'where' Belichick views Edelman/Slater, as those 2 will have a hand in potential decisions too; although certainly not to any extent as my first comment regarding how much Ebert can show in TC.
 
You guys could be right, especially since the popular pattern and thought is that the last 1-2 WR spots will be used on players who can contribute on ST's.

Obviously, it will come down to what Ebert can show and pick up on in TC.

It may also come down to 'where' Belichick views Edelman/Slater, as those 2 will have a hand in potential decisions too; although certainly not to any extent as my first comment regarding how much Ebert can show in TC.
Move Edelman to RB
 
Move Edelman to RB

I do want to see him get more time there, even if it's just preseason. I can only think of one snap he took a handoff, and he got stuffed in the backfield without getting a chance to do anything. It wasn't his fault at all, yet we haven't see him since then. I do think he's a little redundant with Woodhead as a shifty RB who can also play in the slot, but who I don't trust against a blitzing LB.
 
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My guess, and I want to emphasize it is only a guess, is the WR end up looking like this:

Gaffney
Welker
Stallworth
Johnson (Ocho is changing his name back in July I think)

Edelman and Slater make it as special team players that are "Break glass in case of emergency" wide receivers.

Branch retires but stays in shape in case the phone rings. Ebert (I think that is his name) goes practice squad.

Running backs are, let me emphasize "guess" again:

Ridley
Woodhead
Vareen

For Faulk - see Branch.:D

I see a FB, I just don't know or care who.
I see 3 TE.
To save a roster spot, assuming Mallet is half as good as some people think, only QBs with a sad heartfelt goodbye to Hoyer as he goes to back up a QB poor team. A rookie FA is put on the practice squad just for an extra arm in practice.

Except Branch, who may retire instead of play elsewhere, any WR that doesn't make it MAY be a good 2nd WR elsewhere.

Oh, did I emphasize this is a guess?:D
 
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