Would you want Brian Schottenheimer if he is available?

[Naugy Nugget]

This isn't a situation where we want another teams trash. Shotty or Schitty as he's referred to on the Jets board is a horrible OC.

Schoddy too.

 

[Mike in 333]

Here's a guy who has no understanding of the limitations of his QB or probably the rest of his offense. His playcalling is horrible because he doesn't have the personnel to execute. Sort of like what Ernie Zampese was for Bledsoe. As a Pat's fan it's obvious that the best place for Schottenheimer is right where he is.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Here's a guy who has no understanding of the limitations of his QB or probably the rest of his offense. His playcalling is horrible because he doesn't have the personnel to execute. Sort of like what Ernie Zampese was for Bledsoe. As a Pat's fan it's obvious that the best place for Schottenheimer is right where he is.

Gawd I'd totally forgotten about Dallas' Zampese being Pats OC. Would the TV networks even allow live shots of him up in the booth with at least 2 cigs smoking away?

 

[jan08]

Thousands of miles away, here in old England, today was bin day, A day when our bins get taken away and we are left with empty bins. The translation would be having your trash/garbage taken.

Due to the cuts/economy we are reduced to our bins taken once every two weeks which is far from ideal.

Which brings me to my point. This thread and its original supposition is pretty much like emptying my bins, taking out all that old turkey, cabbage, chewed up sweets, kids puke and carrots, and baking it all into a nice new years pie. Tasting that would be similar to reading the original suggestion again

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's a guy who has no understanding of the limitations of his QB or probably the rest of his offense. His playcalling is horrible because he doesn't have the personnel to execute. Sort of like what Ernie Zampese was for Bledsoe. As a Pat's fan it's obvious that the best place for Schottenheimer is right where he is.

Let's be fair, here. Schottenheimer is fully aware of his quarterback's limitations:

Can't throw outside the hashmarks
Can't throw deep
Struggles getting off his primary read
Panics if he's hit early
Stuck with a terrible line

That's the QB he's dealing with. They tried opening things up in the beginning of the season, and it was a disaster. That's why he's calling the game he's calling. He's shortened the passes, kept them in the middle of the field, and kept the drops short. The problem is that Burress is slow off the line and a long strider, and Holmes can be taken out with safety help. That means the Jets are often stuck with only the options of Keller and LdT/Greene, and that makes Sanchez even more predictable. If the Jets can't run the ball, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Hell, last week, Schottenheimer tried to exploit a lousy secondary and Sanchez couldn't get it done. On top of generally poor throws and fumbles, he had what seemed like a dozen tipped balls. Naturally, that's all the O.C.'s fault. :bricks:

 

[strngplyr]

Let's be fair, here. Schottenheimer is fully aware of his quarterback's limitations:

Can't throw outside the hashmarks
Can't throw deep
Struggles getting off his primary read
Panics if he's hit early
Stuck with a terrible line

That's the QB he's dealing with. They tried opening things up in the beginning of the season, and it was a disaster. That's why he's calling the game he's calling. He's shortened the passes, kept them in the middle of the field, and kept the drops short. The problem is that Burress is slow off the line and a long strider, and Holmes can be taken out with safety help. That means the Jets are often stuck with only the options of Keller and LdT/Greene, and that makes Sanchez even more predictable. If the Jets can't run the ball, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Hell, last week, Schottenheimer tried to exploit a lousy secondary and Sanchez couldn't get it done. On top of generally poor throws and fumbles, he had what seemed like a dozen tipped balls. Naturally, that's all the O.C.'s fault. :bricks:

He also abandoned the run down by 3 points.

From TGG:

Rex Ryan says Jets won’t pass it 60 times again - NYPOST.com

"Yesterday, Ryan tried to deflect the criticism that Sanchez and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer have received onto himself.

“I don’t think you blame things on one guy and if you are going to blame it one guy it should be the head coach,” Ryan said. “That’s what you get paid to do. I’m not ducking my responsibility. That was my responsibility to win that game. It didn’t get done. So, the criticism should be placed on me. I’ve got broad enough shoulders. I can take it.”

Ryan said he does not blame Schottenheimer for the play-calling Saturday. He said the Jets had to throw because they were trailing in the second half."

Really Rex? For most of the third quarter the score was 10-7. Hardly a game situation that requires a pass happy approach. Lets look at the 3rd quarter:

New York Giants vs. New York Jets - Play By Play - December 24, 2011 - ESPN


1st and 10 at NYJ 22 M.Sanchez pass incomplete deep right to D.Keller (D.Grant).

2nd and 10 at NYJ 22 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass incomplete short middle to L.Tomlinson.

3rd and 10 at NYJ 22 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to P.Burress (D.Tollefson).

4th and 10 *PUNT*



1st and 10 at NYJ 23 S.Greene left guard to NYJ 28 for 5 yards (A.Rolle).

2nd and 5 at NYJ 28 S.Greene right guard to NYJ 36 for 8 yards (J.Pierre-Paul).

1st and 10 at NYJ 36 S.Greene left guard to NYJ 40 for 4 yards (C.Blackburn).

2nd and 6 at NYJ 40 M.Sanchez sacked at NYJ 34 for -6 yards (J.Tuck).

3rd and 12 at NYJ 34 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass incomplete deep right to S.Holmes.

4th and 12 at NYJ 34 *PUNT*

1st and 10 at NYJ 28 S.Greene up the middle to NYJ 35 for 7 yards (M.Kiwanuka).

2nd and 3 at NYJ 35 L.Tomlinson right guard to NYJ 41 for 6 yards (L.Joseph).

1st and 15 at NYJ 36 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass short right to D.Keller to NYJ 43 for 7 yards (C.Webster).

2nd and 8 at NYJ 43 M.Sanchez pass incomplete deep left to S.Holmes. PENALTY on NYJ, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYJ 43 - No Play.

2nd and 18 at NYJ 33 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to D.Keller (R.Bernard).

3rd and 18 at NYJ 33 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass short middle to L.Tomlinson to NYJ 42 for 9 yards (J.Williams).

4th and 9 at NYJ 42 *PUNT*


1st and 10 at NYJ 19 S.Greene left end pushed ob at NYJ 32 for 13 yards (C.Webster).

1st and 10 at NYJ 32 M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to S.Holmes (C.Webster).

2nd and 10 at NYJ 32 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass short middle to D.Keller to NYJ 38 for 6 yards (A.Rolle).

3rd and 9 at NYJ 33 (Shotgun) M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to S.Holmes.

4th and 9 at NYJ 33 *PUNT*

*Giants TD with around 20 seconds left sets the score at 17-7*

1st and 10 at NYJ 20 V.Ducasse reported in as eligible. M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to S.Greene.

2nd and 10 at NYJ 20 S.Greene left guard to NYJ 21 for 1 yard (J.Pierre-Paul).

End of Period

Counting this all up, if we count the sack as a failed pass play (ie -6 in the pass play yards, and an incomplete) here are the results from the third quarter:

7 rushes for 44 yards. (6.28 ypc)

3 passes out of 13 attempts for 16 yards. (1.28 yards per pass play attempt)

I can understand Rex is defending his coaches, but just how abysmal was the third quarter? Isn't there someone on the sidelines who pays attention to in game stats that can say "Hey maybe we should run the ball more...".

It's hard to understand how in a pass first league we can have twice as many pass attempts as rush attempts and somehow not even get half as many pass yards as rush yards in a quarter.

It's even harder to understand how none of the coaches decided to make an adjustment and go run heavy, or at least balanced.

....are you actually going to tell me this was good playcalling, DI? An OC who doesn't understand that his QB is too ****ty to take advantage of a bad secondary and still calls 60+ pass plays when they are running the ball extremely effectively and only down by 3 points?

 

[Deus Irae]

He also abandoned the run down by 3 points.

From TGG:



....are you actually going to tell me this was good playcalling, DI? An OC who doesn't understand that his QB is too ****ty to take advantage of a bad secondary and still calls 60+ pass plays when they are running the ball extremely effectively and only down by 3 points?

1.) Patriots fans should know better than to try evaluating an O.C. based upon what some idiot from Gangreen is posting. If your QB goes 3 for 13, you're probably going to be in trouble. That doesn't mean the play calling was the problem. Again, Patriots fans should know this.

2.) 7 runs/13 passes is nothing particularly out of whack in a small sample size as, again, Patriots fans should know. The Jets are running at about 55% pass this year. This was about 65% in a small sample. It's a 2 pass difference in a quarter. That's only a problem for people who are looking to invent a problem.

3.) The rest of that poster's argument should have told you just how stupid his complaint was:

It's hard to understand how in a pass first league we can have twice as many pass attempts as rush attempts and somehow not even get half as many pass yards as rush yards in a quarter.

The QB went 3 for 13 (counting the sack which yields negative yardage), according to his numbers. It's not hard to understand at all.

 

[strngplyr]

1.) Patriots fans should know better than to try evaluating an O.C. based upon what some idiot from Gangreen is posting. If your QB goes 3 for 13, you're probably going to be in trouble. That doesn't mean the play calling was the problem. Again, Patriots fans should know this.

2.) 7 runs/13 passes is nothing particularly out of whack in a small sample size as, again, Patriots fans should know. The Jets are running at about 55% pass this year. This was about 65% in a small sample. It's a 2 pass difference in a quarter. That's only a problem for people who are looking to invent a problem.

3.) The rest of that poster's argument should have told you just how stupid his complaint was:



The QB went 3 for 13 (counting the sack which yields negative yardage), according to his numbers. It's not hard to understand at all.

A good OC will continue to do what is working until the opponent can prove they are capable of stopping it, not continue to do what your opponent is stopping (whether it is batting passes, good coverage, or just facing an awful QB).

I'm not saying they should have ran every play, but you don't call twice as many pass plays when you're only down by 3 and your QB can't do ****, while your run game is gashing them on near every rush.

An OC worth a damn would know how ****ty his QB is and not expose him more than he has to.

 

[Deus Irae]

A good OC will continue to do what is working until the opponent can prove they are capable of stopping it, not continue to do what your opponent is stopping (whether it is batting passes, good coverage, or just facing an awful QB).

I'm not saying they should have ran every play, but you don't call twice as many pass plays when you're only down by 3 and your QB can't do ****, while your run game is gashing them on near every rush.

An OC worth a damn would know how ****ty his QB is and not expose him more than he has to.

Are you from Gang Green or something? Stop analyzing things ass backwards. Leave that for the Jets fans.

Again, this is a team that is a 55% pass team. You're looking at one quarter as if it's some microcosm when it's not. The difference between the usual 55% and the 65% in this one quarter is a.) A sack being counted as an attempt and b.) 2 passing plays.



First quarter run yardage:
3
1
2
3
6 (by Kerley, not a RB)
1
5

So, taking the one quarter only style of analysis and going with the "Damn O.C.!" style of thinking, they should have ditched the run completely after the first quarter.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

Hell no!

 

[strngplyr]

Are you from Gang Green or something? Stop analyzing things ass backwards. Leave that for the Jets fans.

Again, this is a team that is a 55% pass team. You're looking at one quarter as if it's some microcosm when it's not. The difference between the usual 55% and the 65% in this one quarter is a.) A sack being counted as an attempt and b.) 2 passing plays.



First quarter run yardage:
3
1
2
3
6 (by Kerley, not a RB)
1
5

So, taking the one quarter only style of analysis and going with the "Damn O.C.!" style of thinking, they should have ditched the run completely after the first quarter.

When your quarterback goes by the name of "Mark Sanchez" the thought of ditching the run should never occur to you. He's proven time and time again that he is incapable of carrying a team on his back.

Part of being a good OC is knowing your personnel and their capabilities.

And please don't accuse me of being "from TGG". That one hurts.

I'm not even sure why I ever replied to you, I already knew it was just another example of you going against the grain of every other poster in yet another thread in order to argue with someone.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Remember this thread as the one time almost everyone on Patsfans agreed on something: that this is the dumbest ----ing thread ever.

Well, it's definitely in the running, but it might not even be the dumbest of the season. . . . :bricks:

 

[JaxPats]

Shotty = Sham-Wow guy It sucks, he sucks, Jets suck. Period. I want NOTHING from that team short of continuing suckage every game, every year for......................EVER !!!:rocker:

 

[Ivan]

Well, it's definitely in the running, but it might not even be the dumbest of the season. . . . :bricks:

The "Trade Welker...." thread has to get that honor.

 

[Ring 6]

There are rumblings that the Jets are going to scapegoat Schottenheimer to commit themselves to the Sanchez lie for another year. I've seen a lot of Jets games over the last few years, and I'll tell you that this guy is a very, very good offensive coordinator. The bottom line is that if your quarterback is garbage, there's isn't much you can do. When your QB can't hit easy passes, doesn't see wide open receivers, and has a 55% completion pct mostly on checkdowns, you are in trouble. Looking at guys like Mike Martz, Charlie Weis, and Josh McDaniels should tell you that these coordinators can only be successful with great quarterbacks.

If the Jets do let go of Schottenheimer, I wonder if the Patriots would be aggressive in trying to recruit him either to replace BOB or work in another role with the team; we all know how appealing it is to join the Pats staff because you become in high demand fast under Belichick.

For once, I'd like to see the Pats really stick it to the Jets; Schottenheimer obviously has that team's offense figured out, ala Eric Mangini had our team figured out. Then maybe we could make him captain for the coin toss before we destroy those clowns again.

And for anyone who thinks that Schottenheimer is a "run-first" coach, I disagree. That is just the hand he is dealt in NY in needing to gameplan with one of the worst NFL QBs in the league.

Frankly, I think you are out of your mind.
Why would we want to bring in a guy from a culture that is totally the opposite of what we have here, who has failed pretty misearably (it is also his job to teach Sanchez to be an NFL QB and it is clear he has done horribly at that) not to mention you want to give him OBriens job when OBrien is clearly outclassing him as an OC?
To add the cherry on top, you want to pull a low class move to copy the low class buffoon coaching the Jets and name the OC a captain?
BB is better than Rex for many reasons and the fact he doesn't pull childish stunts like that is a big one. Do you really want BB to copy the personality of Rex Ryan?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Good piece from Lombardi on what ails the JETS and it's clearly not the OC whose hands are fairly tied between a HC who doesn't have the personnel or offensive chops or even the temperament to handle the position professionally and the backstabbing former cap guru GM who apparently doesn't know how to evaluate talent or what it takes to win and focuses on what it takes to sell PSL's and keep your team on the back pages of the NYPost.

NFL.com news: Sanchez gets pounded because the run game is grounded

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Frankly, I think you are out of your mind.
Why would we want to bring in a guy from a culture that is totally the opposite of what we have here, who has failed pretty misearably (it is also his job to teach Sanchez to be an NFL QB and it is clear he has done horribly at that) not to mention you want to give him OBriens job when OBrien is clearly outclassing him as an OC?
To add the cherry on top, you want to pull a low class move to copy the low class buffoon coaching the Jets and name the OC a captain?
BB is better than Rex for many reasons and the fact he doesn't pull childish stunts like that is a big one. Do you really want BB to copy the personality of Rex Ryan?

Not that I'd want him here or that he'd fit but Shotty isn't a bad OC, Sanchez is a very limited QB and in conjunction with Rex being Rex (largely hot air) and Tannenbaum being more cap manipulator than talent evaluator GM ergo no one is a team or roster builder - the OC is just the latest fall guy in a long line of them in the swamp. That is why Bill walked and advised Eric not to even think about it... Crappy organization from the top down with no philosophy beyond making a splash and wet dreaming about knocking us off.

 

[NEPatriot]

This thread is an insult to BOB.

While I'm no fan of BOB, I can't understand why we'd want Schottenheimer. The Jet offense has been bad for most of the year. His offense has been very vanilla.

 

[Deus Irae]

When your quarterback goes by the name of "Mark Sanchez" the thought of ditching the run should never occur to you. He's proven time and time again that he is incapable of carrying a team on his back.

Part of being a good OC is knowing your personnel and their capabilities.

Sanchez has had games where he's played well enough to 'carry' his team. He's just not consistent with it. The Jets don't have the talent to run on a team like the Giants all game long.

And please don't accuse me of being "from TGG". That one hurts.

Go over there and read some of the "Shotty" threads. You'll find your posts fit right in.

I'm not even sure why I ever replied to you, I already knew it was just another example of you going against the grain of every other poster in yet another thread in order to argue with someone.

Says the guy who's arguing against simple numbers.....

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Sanchez has had games where he's played well enough to 'carry' his team. He's just not consistent with it. The Jets don't have the talent to run on a team like the Giants all game long.



Go over there and read some of the "Shotty" threads. You'll find your posts fit right in.



Says the guy who's arguing against simple numbers.....

Wait! You're calling someone a Jets fan!?!