Would you trade Maroney to Washington?

[emoney_33]

If by solid, you mean that he had the LOWEST YPC out of any Patriots RB not named BJGE and developed Fumbilitis that caused him to be benched by BB in crucial games, then we have very DIFFERENT definitions of solid. When Morris and Taylor went down, Maroney was given the keys and his performance was mediocre at best. His fumbles often happened at the worst time, near the goal line. It's not a wonder why BB decided to bench him subsequently. Wonder if the lesson took? If you listened to his interviews, he appeared unapologetic, never once said he'd work on improving his ball security. How is anyone supposed to take that as a positive?

Firstly how the hell can a fan of a team have such hatred and vitriol for a player?

Now let me point out some actual unbiased and objective facts for you, because you simply are incapable of doing any sort of research or you ignore anything that doesn't fit your pre-determined argument against Maroney.

1) 17% of Morris' yards (319 total) came on ONE run. If you want to use stats at least make an honest effort to not misrepresent them.

2) Neither Morris nor Taylor got even 50% of the amount of carries Maroney got. Taylor only got 63 carries, if you really think that is comparable to Maroney then you are just looking for **** to argue.

3) Maroney wasn't benched in ANY crucial game first of all and second of all it's a big leap for you to assume why BB benched him in the 2nd to last game of the season.

4) Throughout his career he never had a fumbling problem. In 2009 this fumbling "problem" was the a THREE GAME STRETCH. Three f'ing games, and all the data combined for his career points to it being an anomaly not some sudden trend.

5) Trying to listen to interviews to determine what a player is working on is beyond reaching.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Maroney been consistently praised for his willingness to work on weak points in his game. Don't know why he'd suddenly draw the line at addressing his fumbling 'problem'.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

RBBC has nothing to do with "Brady nearly killed" and, by nothing, I mean absolutely nothing at all.



There's not a single running back in the NFL who was a 24 carry RB last season. Only 4 running backs in the entire league averaged more than 20 carries: Benson, Johnson, Jackson and Jones.



Please feel free to explain how the "mediocre running corps" is not working anymore.

Brady needs some real talent behind him,its time to get him some.

While everyone talks about Brady needing more targets to throw to,what never gets mentioned are guys behind him that are very dangerous and respected so that everytime Brady takes a snap it could go long in the air or on the ground - The more respect this team gets in the backfield,the less blitzes and pressure on Brady,also easier on our OL who also needs some retooling.

We have NO running backs on this roster that scare anyone thinking they can make a big difference in a game,Its time to get a true THREAT out of the backfield and take some of the pressure off of Brady and not to mention that this team more than often faces 3rd and long - add a solid 2 RB set and 3rd and long happens less often.

Morris,Faulk and Taylor were once among the top players to run the ball in this league,those days are dwindling fast - time to get some top talent behind Brady - give me 2 solid runners over 4 mediocre ones anyday.

Does anyone really think we lose SB42 if our RB attack had some talent back there then? - The Giants blitzed,blitzed and blitzed Brady all day knowing the team could not run the ball - times like those are examples of how dangerous this team would be if we had a respected running game.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Your argument was that Maroney didn't get 4.0 YPC this year so we must trade him. I'm not comparing Maroney to LdT, I'm comparing your ridiculous fluff standards that you are applying to Maroney. But just like the determined detractors to go off on ridiculous tangents rather than follow a logical debate.

'Almost' only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. It is particularly disingenous to want to give a free pass to Maroney for 'almost' making it in a sport that often comes down to mere inches.

In any case despite your attempts to derail the thread, the point remains that there are better RB options available in the draft this year.

Why not draft one of those young kids to develop as a possible future starter and trade Maroney for what value you can, before his contract expires and before he confirms beyond all doubt that he is a bust and kills any trade value that he would have had? If you can get a draft pick out of Maroney, even better, since you can use that pick to address another position of need for the team.

Firstly how the hell can a fan of a team have such hatred and vitriol for a player?

Objective evaluation of a player's shortcomings is hardly hatred. It's more commonly known as evaluation of team assets, with an eye toward looking to improve the team. Blind homerism is often worse than critical evaluation, because it hampers the ability to make cold, objective judgments where necessary.

I'm sure you also thought that I was filled with 'hatred and vitriol' when I questioned whether Vrabel was worth 5M of cap space. Looks like BB agreed with me when he decided to cut the declining veteran to save cap space. Now was BB also filled with 'hatred and vitriol' or was he making a cold objective, player evaluation, much like myself? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady needs some real talent behind him,its time to get him some.

While everyone talks about Brady needing more targets to throw to,what never gets mentioned are guys behind him that are very dangerous and respected so that everytime Brady takes a snap it could go long in the air or on the ground - The more respect this team gets in the backfield,the less blitzes and pressure on Brady,also easier on our OL who also needs some retooling.

We have NO running backs on this roster that scare anyone thinking they can make a big difference in a game,Its time to get a true THREAT out of the backfield and take some of the pressure off of Brady and not to mention that this team more than often faces 3rd and long - add a solid 2 RB set and 3rd and long happen less often.

Morris,Faulk and Taylor were once among the top players to run the ball in this league,those days are dwindling fast - time to get some top talent behind Brady - give me 2 solid runners over 4 mediocre ones anyday .

Your blitz argument is ridiculous, given how great a job Faulk does picking it up. Other than that, your post didn't address any point I made, even though I'd been responding to one of your own posts.

By the way, there 3 running backs in the NFL who are good enough to be a true "THREAT":

Peterson
Johnson
Jackson


That's it.

 

[emoney_33]

'Almost' only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. It is particularly disingenous to want to give a free pass to Maroney for 'almost' making it in a sport that often comes down to mere inches.

Do you believe 4.0 is a magical number? There's no exact barrier that allows a RB to cross over from below average to good. 4.0 is a general number which incorporates small deviations of +/- 0.1. So your little quips again make no sense in that debate.

In any case despite your attempts to derail the thread, the point remains that there are better RB options available in the draft this year.

Putting perspective and facts into the debate is deraling this thread? I thought this thread was about Maroney. The title of the thread is "Would you trade Maroney to Washington". Not "should we draft a RB" (which we should).

Why not draft one of those young kids to develop as a possible future starter and trade Maroney for what value you can, before his contract expires and before he confirms beyond all doubt that he is a bust and kills any trade value that he would have had? If you can get a draft pick out of Maroney, even better, since you can use that pick to address another position of need for the team.

No one is arguing to NOT draft one of the young kids. However, Maroney does not have a high trade value. He is worth more to us than other teams. He is not ever going to "confirm beyond all doubt that he is a bust". It's actually a FACT that he is not a bust. It's proven as he's been a 4 year starter for a competitive team. Chad Jackson was a bust. Maroney is already PROVEN to not be a bust.

 

[Deus Irae]

Does anyone really think we lose SB42 if our RB attack had some talent back there then? - The Giants blitzed,blitzed and blitzed Brady all day knowing the team could not run the ball - times like those are examples of how dangerous this team would be if we had a respected running game.

Blaming the running backs for SB42 is nonsensical, particularly given how well Maroney had been running the ball in those playoffs. If I listed 500 million reasons the Patriots lost that game, the running backs would still come in just about dead last on the list of reasons, other than the injury to Faulk.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

That's not a fact. It's an opinion.



Using just YPC, the Patriots should make Kevin Faulk the every down back and use the other RB slots for other positions.



No, you love to hate on Maroney. This has been going on for years. Every year it's a different excuse. When he had good YPC, the beef was that he couldn't stay healthy. This season, he was fairly healthy, so now the complaint is his YPC, even though more and more people were finally noticing the struggles of the o-line in run blocking and noticing the relative predictability of the team when Maroney was in the game. Even though it became a running joke during the game threads as the other running backs got stuffed at or behind the line, you've continued to sing the same anti-Maroney tune.



There's not a single team in the league that would have been stupid enough to cut Maroney to this point in his NFL career.

IIRC BB used a trade up to get Chad Jackson who got cut within 2 years and cut him......What do you have to say about that? - sure he had injuries but so does Maroney, just about every year - the thing is Chad was cut because there was lots of talent at his position and cutting him was no biggie,Maroney's position has not been as successful to fill lately thus he is still here due to lack of changing the roster there.

Maroney has not killed my family,I don't hate him personally but you seem to not understand this that a 3 year old would.,I simply DO NOT think he is an NFL RB and is more suited for alternate football leagues like the CFL ect:

2006 was a year full of early draft pick busts..period - those who don't think so fall into my early catagory of #1 so be it

 

[JackBauer]

By the way, there 3 running backs in the NFL who are good enough to be a true "THREAT":

Peterson
Johnson
Jackson

That's it.

No Maurice Jones-Drew?

 

[Deus Irae]

IIRC BB used a trade up to get Chad Jackson who got cut within 2 years and cut him......What do you have to say about that? - sure he had injuries but so does Maroney, just about every year - the thing is Chad was cut because there was lots of talent at his position and cutting him was no biggie,Maroney's position has not been as successful to fill lately thus he is still here due to lack of changing the roster there.

Ok, so you have never seen Maroney run the football in the NFL, you have been drinking heavily, or you're just tossing out crap that you know makes no sense now. Maroney was being looked at as the best RB in draft in his rookie season, prior to his injury. In 2007, he was excellent in the playoffs, and fine, when healthy, in the regular season. In 2008, he suffered in injury and ended up on the shelf. When the hell do you think a team would have cut him during that run?

Maroney has not killed my family,I don't hate him personally but you seem to not understand this that a 3 year old would.,I simply DO NOT think he is an NFL RB and is more suited for alternate football leagues like the CFL ect:

2006 was a year full of early draft pick busts..period - those who don't think so fall into my early catagory of #1 so be it

Yeah, it can't be anything personal. It's not as if you've denigrated the YPC stat in the past and are now trying to use it as a club, or anything.

Please......

 

[Deus Irae]

No Maurice Jones-Drew?

I'm a fan of MJD's running, but he's not a "THREAT". He's a nice player.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Your blitz argument is ridiculous, given how great a job Faulk does picking it up. Other than that, your post didn't address any point I made, even though I'd been responding to one of your own posts.

By the way, there 3 running backs in the NFL who are good enough to be a true "THREAT":

Peterson
Johnson
Jackson


That's it.

Faulk HAS been great
Thats the point,Even Faulk who we all love is starting to slow it down a bit,we can see that and expect that.

If you don't respect tamdens like Brown and Williams in Miami and newly formed groups like Washington and Greene and older groups a few years ago like Jacobs,Ward and Bradshaw I don't know what to tell you. - Of those 3 groups in particular 2 of those RB groups went pretty far in the playoffs - one went to the AFCCG last year,One of those groups were on a team who won the SB and one tandem is a QB away (Henne is promising) from being dangerous.

 

[DW Toys]

Logic obviously isn't your strong suit, as I haven't a clue how you arrived at this conclusion. Just because I feel compelled to defend them against your overstated criticisms does not make them my favorite players.



It's kind of funny that you keep regurgitating this pablum, as if by repeating it often enough it will somehow become accurate.

Tell you what. As I've said to you multiple times, go back and re-examine the first round of draft choices in the 2006 draft. It's probably the easiest and clearest way to show how erroneous you are.



Not really. It could just as well mean he's worth more to us than he is to another team.

Cousin DB, Sorry. I did not put this up. Fox Sports did...ouch.
DW Toys

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm a fan of MJD's running, but he's not a "THREAT". He's a nice player.

You serious, Deus? If there was ever a threat at RB, MJD is it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Faulk HAS been great
Thats the point,Even Faulk who we all love is starting to slow it down a bit,we can see that and expect that.

If you don't respect tamdens like Brown and Williams in Miami and newly formed groups like Washington and Greene and older groups a few years ago like Jacobs,Ward and Bradshaw I don't know what to tell you. - Of those 3 groups in particular 2 of those RB groups went pretty far in the playoffs - one went to the AFCCG last year,One of those groups were on a team who won the SB and one tandem is a QB away (Henne is promising) from being dangerous.

Why do you keep posting things that are completely irrelevant to the posts you're quoting? It's particularly useless when you're pointing to teams like the Giants and Dolphins when you were previously arguing about 24 carry RBs, given that neither even made the playoffs with their running attacks and neither featured an RB even near your parameters (Brown carried an average of 16 times per game, and Williams, who's numbers inflated after Brown went down due to injury, averaged out at 15 for the Dolphins, While Jacobs averaged 15 and Bradshaw averaged 11 for the Giants).

Also, if you're going to use the playoffs as some sort of Barometer.... pointing to the 2007 Giants rushing attack as something special while busting on the 2007 Patriots rushing attack, when they were both good enough to get to the Super Bowl that season is duplicitous.

 

[DaBruinz]

Honestly, Maroney would fetch a late 3rd/early 4th at most.

Why trade a 2nd or a 3rd when you can draft fresh legs who are better.

The top 6-8 runningbacks in this draft are better than Maroney.

That is your UNSUPPORTED Opinion. You have absolutely nothing to support it.

In fact, most of your hating on Maroney (as with the others) totally ignores something that BB even addressed this year. That on the running plays with Maroney out there, the O-line isn't opening the holes. Also, if you looked at the plays, the ones that Faulk, Morris, and Taylor were running were almost primarily draws and delays. The same can't be said for the plays Maroney was getting.

As for using 4 RBs by committee, when two of them (Morris and Taylor) miss over half the year, you really aren't doing RB by Committee.

It should be very telling to all of you that, when both were out, BJGE got very few carries.

Yet you haters ignore that as if it never happened... You'd rather hate on Maroney because he hasn't lived up to your irrational expectations.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maroney been consistently praised for his willingness to work on weak points in his game. Don't know why he'd suddenly draw the line at addressing his fumbling 'problem'.

It's the irrational hatred for him by people who had unrealistic expectations. These are the same people who usually ignore how the game is interconnected and how one facet can have such a drastic influence on another.

I'd bet you'd find that many of them think that nothing is wrong with the O-line and that only Neal needs to be replaced. They'll tell you that the run blocking was just fine and that Maroney was the issue. Even though the Coach came out and said that the O-line wasn't doing their job in the running game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Cousin DB, Sorry. I did not put this up. Fox Sports did...ouch.
DW Toys

DW - Were you trying to quote myself or JB? Either way, you don't understand what you are looking at and don't realize that the stats don't tell the whole story. Just like you didn't with Sanders.

Please stop. You only hurt yourself when you post your hatred..

 

[patsinthesnow]

That is your UNSUPPORTED Opinion. You have absolutely nothing to support it.

In fact, most of your hating on Maroney (as with the others) totally ignores something that BB even addressed this year. That on the running plays with Maroney out there, the O-line isn't opening the holes. Also, if you looked at the plays, the ones that Faulk, Morris, and Taylor were running were almost primarily draws and delays. The same can't be said for the plays Maroney was gettin

As for using 4 RBs by committee, when two of them (Morris and Taylor) miss over half the
year, you really aren't doing RB by Committee.
It should be very telling to all of you that, when both were out, BJGE got very few carries.
Yet you haters ignore that as if it never happened... You'd rather hate on Maroney because he hasn't lived up to your irrational
expectations.[/QUOTE

Three things:

1. If you read my other posts, I want Maroney
in to be the faster guy of a 1-2 punch. Not the starter though.

Irrational expectations? He was the 2nd runningback taken and has failed to rush for 1,000 yards. The only one outside of the top 5 besides Bush.

3. Why bring BJGE into this? He does what he does. He was an undrafted runningback who plays special teams and plays a few downs a game.

 

[DW Toys]

DW - Were you trying to quote myself or JB? Either way, you don't understand what you are looking at and don't realize that the stats don't tell the whole story. Just like you didn't with Sanders.

Please stop. You only hurt yourself when you post your hatred..

DB,
It is not me. Tell your story to all of these other "haters". I don't hate him. I say trade him for what you can get now. You always ask for references so here are some. I never said he did not have talent. He has just never developed it in our system.
Let me know if you need more info.

You know why I do not think Sanders is my Cup of Tea. You can't play scared in the NFL.

At the end of the day they could all come to my house for diner and I am sure they are great kids, but I don't want them playing for me.
DW Toys

MARONEY-
CBS Sports-Bit undersized and does not have the lower body power to break tackles when running into traffic … Lacks the push needed to move the pile, but is too undersized to gain too much positive yardage between the tackles … Lacks a feel for route running and is not fluid trying to adjust to the off-target throws … Lets the ball absorb into his body rather than pluck and extend to catch the ball … Non-factor as a blocker, as he does not show aggression stepping up vs. the blitz and just seems to go through the motions when asked to locate and neutralize the linebackers in the second level.

The Huddle-the main knock against this exceptional talent has been his tendency to take plays off and not approach each and every snap with the same intensity, a weakness that will be immediately addressed under the watchful eye of coach Bill Belichick.

About.com-U of Minn RB Maroney-Maroney has had his share of injuries

NESN-New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick clearly ran out of patience with running back Laurence Maroney at the end of the 2009 season. But while Maroney’s butterfingers turned into a benching, they might not have signaled the end of his Patriots career.

Surely, Maroney has failed to grow into the feature back Belichick likely hoped he was getting when he selected the Minnesota product in the first round of the 2006 draft. Maroney’s career in New England has been disappointing, marred by injuries, an inability to adjust to the pro game and, recently, turnovers.

As often as Maroney has shown flashes of his potential, he’s displayed maddening cases of happy feet in the backfield. Throughout 2009, Gillette Stadium fans turned quicker on Maroney than any other player, with the one exception of Randy Moss in a Week 14 effort against Carolina. Simply put, there might be hundreds of thousands of New England natives who would gladly drive Maroney to the airport if that meant the conclusion of his days as a Patriot.

But that just might not be the case. Maroney has one year left on his rookie deal, and unless the Patriots acquire a big-time running back this offseason, Maroney will likely be around to finish his contract.

Excerpts:
ESPN/Scout: Maroney lacks ideal size and he had some durability issues during his only season as the fulltime starter (2005). He has great experience in a zone-blocking running scheme and seems like a natural fit for a team employing such a system in the NFL such as the Broncos or Ravens.

FoxSports: Could be a star in the right system. Not dazzling as an elusive runner, but has exceptional one-cut-and-go ability. Maroney is best when he can reach the corners, where he can utilize his acceleration and burst with more effectiveness. Upright and sometimes overly patient running style.