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Would you shake hands with a jew?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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  2. PATRIOTS-80

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    Why did Nazi Germany and Hitler hate the jews?
  3. Tunescribe

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    Part of it was an issue of political control, the other part was Hitler's desire to engineer a genetically "pure" German race.
  4. Patjew

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    Very well and succinctly put.
  5. Patjew

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  6. PATRIOTS-80

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    it is very sad.
  7. DarrylS

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    This is precisely why we do not do well in this area, we try to apply a western "mindset" and cannot comprehend the deep seated bad blood, we discount historical issues and long time divisions for "quick fixes", many of the issues will exist ad infinitum and no matter what we do will not get better. But there are some who believe we can make it better.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On a brighter note, much of the U.S. had the same attitude towards the blacks until the 1960s, but I would say in took only one generation to turn things around. As many have said, peace between Israel and the Palestinians is key to peace in the region.

    Of course, the scary thing is that that clip came from Saudi Arabia, one of our allies and a major owner of our debt.
  9. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I think that they'd always dislike each other; but if the climate there was better there would be much less hate. Its too hot and there's not enough water. Human nature is such that when you're miserable, you're faster to lash out and you lash out more violently. There's also the tendency of people to absolve themselves of guilt (for not walking out of the region thousands of years ago) but to pin the blame on someone else.

    What we need to do is invent a weather machine and shoot it at the ME thereby converting their climate to something like Seattle's. Where its never more than a few degrees from 70F [21C] and it rains 4 days out of 5. If we did that two things would happen: 1) 'grunge' music would make a huge comeback, and 2) all the Arabs would sit around coffee houses all day long b!tching about the Jews; but never actually do anything about them.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2007
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the majority of people want peace and security and have no particular motivation for hate. There are some liberal Jews who work with the Palestinians, and some progressive Palestinians who recognize Israel's right to exist. But, like anywhere, a small part of the population is bitter and hate filled. Most people just want to get on with their daily lives, and don't have much time to hate.

    Perhaps a general question is in order. Does anyone here actually know any Arabs and have you found them to be virulently anti-Jewish?
  11. Harry Boy

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    The Liberal Democrat Jews in America are feeling sorry for this little creep, they say the Bad Bad Hated Bush is picking on him.

    Streisand and Jon Stewart should be handcuffed then dropped off in Iran or Palestine, I bet the scumbags would be glad to see Bush's Troops with their ladies underwear and dog leashes then.

    Wake up you Bush Hating whacko's, these bastards want you all dead and carved up into little pieces.
    ____________________________________________
    GOD WILLING WE WILL KILL EVERY F-CKING AMERICAN IN AMERICA
  12. Patters

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    Harry, if someone destroyed your home and killed your family, would like them more or less than if they came to you and said, "Let's try to find a way to work out our differences"? That's the difference between neo-cons and liberals.
  13. Harry Boy

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    I would love to see that, how do we get them to see that?
  14. Patjew

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    Sure have, more than a few. But I've also had Arab friends that didn't care about Jews one way or another.
  15. Real World

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    Most in here are pretty understanding of the reality, but some don't understand why a "peace" can't be brokered. When one side only wants to destroy the other, even at the cost of their own lives, peace is not an easy task.
  16. sdaniels7114

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    All of the many that I've met never seem to express it. I wouldn't know if they're hiding it to fit in here since I've never been outside the USA and therefore I've never met one who hasn't departed that area more or less permanently. It seems to me that they leave the hatred behind. Which points to my weather theory bein' accurate. Then again you never hear of Nevadans going on Jihad against New Mexicans. So perhaps I'm full of sh!t:D
  17. Real World

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    The deep rooted hatred, combined with the oppressive regimes that run these societies with an iron fist, make reform, or tolerance, virtually non existent. It's the key reason regime change in Iraq, for the purpose of geopolitical change, was saught post 9/11. The idea is that through choice and self governance, i.e. democracy, the people of the greater ME will have a chance to mature in ways that have been repressed before. Of course, the question is, do you force democracy onto people? Do you invade in the name of future peace? Are you causing more disdain through this course of action? Can it succeed, or will it fail? All that aside, this was the intention with Iraq. To me it was anyway.
  18. Real World

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    Yeah, I sat on the bus next to an Arab once. He hated ice cream. I think removing all ice cream from the greater ME is the path to peace. :p
  19. Harry Boy

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    If this little "Rat Faced" king or whatever the hell they call him isn't kept in line he will be more trouble than old Saddam ever thought of being and we KNOW FOR A FACT HE WILL HAVE THE WMD's that you Bush Haters are always squawking about, he has NUKES and the creepy little piece of sh!t will use them.

    The biggest weapon that the Radical Religion Crazed Muslim has is something very few other people have "THEY ENJOY DYING" that is what makes them so dangerous and they HATE YOU.
  20. Real World

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    The problem with the world is people like yourself who view things in one light, and are never able to give credit, or validity, to any alterior view. You think that walking into Palestine, or Israel, and singing kumbaya will get the job done. Sorry, but the world doesn't work that way. You sometimes need dimplomacy, you sometimes need an iron fist. That's reality. When Anwar Saddat signed that peace deal, and recognized Israel, he was assasinated. When Ytizak Rabin signed the Oslo Accords in 1994 he too was assasinated. Sure, some people want peace, ultimately though, lots don't. Trying to sing Kumbaya with those who don't is futile. Life is black, white, and lots of grey. The hard part is trying to figure out who needs a slap, and who needs a word on encouragement.
  21. Real World

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    Well there have been numerous studies done in different parts of the world that ask these types of questions. Those who've moved to this country from the ME have a much different view than those who live in their oppressive homelands.
  22. Harry Boy

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    Would you shake hands with a jew?

    I'd sleep with one------"Girl"
    :rocker: "yup, me too"
  23. wistahpatsfan

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    The hard part is figuring out when one needs a slap or a pat on the back. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have, at different times, shown they are uncivilized and at others, very accommodating. It is another component of the endless - and I mean ENDLESS - cycle of violence that is the Middle East. The most tranquil, stable, and safest countries of the area tend to be kingdoms, dictatorships, and other types of oppressive regimes. Democracies or republican forms of government don't work in the Middle East cultures. The only examples of these forms of government (Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, whoelse?). I think this is largely due to the Old Testament-based religions that offer no mechanisms for resolving fundamental conflicts between people of different religious orientations. Adherence to "beliefs" rather than facts is the most important aspect of all the ME groups. I'm afraid that, until reliance on religious doctrine is relegated to a secondary status there, there will be no hope for peace there.
  24. Real World

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    I think it's the oppressive forms of government that prevent ME peace. Tell me where there is a true democracy in the ME? Israel, and who else really? I'm not sure about the smaller nation like Qatar, UAE, and such. I think Kuwait has an elected government. The main stays though, Iran, Lybia, Syria, SA, Egypt, Lebanon (until recently), Yemen, etc... are all run by royals, dictators, or religious councils. Everyone always says that Iran is a democratic nation, when it truly is not. They are run by a religious council of clerics. When nations like these offer no alternative to government dictated doctrine, you get people who want to mutilate and kill each other as the government tells. These nations in question don't have Israel in their text books. In free countries contrarian views are heard, not prohibited.
  25. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think it's a matter of singing Kumbaya, but it's a matter of having a sophisticated foreign policy that rewards and empowers those who want peace. Although it's been a rough road, from Carter to Clinton, quite a bit of progress was made: Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Oman, even Iran. The war threatens to undermine that progress and has already done so in Iran. Right now, the war is having the net affect of marginalizing those who want peace and rewarding those who benefit from war.

    There's no easy path to peace, but war is only making things worse, and I think it's a long shot for any good to come from this war. I think we've destroyed Iraq, destroyed much of its history, many of cities, thousands of citizens, and it will take at least a generation for it to recover. Even if we secure peace, Iraq will remain a backward and dangerous country for many years. Even Germany took a full generation to recover from WWII, and they were in a far better position that the Iraqis.
  26. wistahpatsfan

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    Lebanon is a democracy, and so are the Palestinian territories. UAE, I understand is moving toward a stronger, more representative government, but are still ruled by Sharia Law. Don't tell me Lebanon, Israel and Palestine are "peaceful" or are the only hope for peace. They are the most violent places of all (outside of Iraq). How can you make the arguement otherwise? Who cares what is in their school textbooks? The value of the freedom to express contrarian views is over-rated and not an indicator of stability in the ME.

    And yes,
    I'd gladly shake hands with any Jew that is a good person. There are good Jews and bad Jews, just like any other group. I've met far more evil Christians than evil Jews. The nicest people I've ever met are Pagans, though. Athiests (which I am) tend to be grumpier than most.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2007
  27. Real World

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    Lebanon was under Syrian occupation until last year, and the Palestinian have their first elected leadership in 4 decades. You aren't trying to say that a year and a half of democracy after decades and milleniums of oppression are comparable, or yet indiciative of the latters success or failure? I think we can all agree that the ME has forever been a sore spot for violence. Until recently, the ME has not see democratically elected rule. How about we give those nations under transformation a hundreth of the amount of time oppression had, before we determine it's success or failure.

    The text book thing is crucial. When schools teach, under the demand of the government, that a neighboring nation does not exist, or that it's people are dogs that should be destroyed, your not going to have a very "peaceful" region. Imagine if our schools taught us that Canada, or canadians were such, and had done so for a couple hundred years, think we'd have a peaceful North America?
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2007
  28. PATRIOTS-80

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    That's quite easy to type in a free country. I strongly disagree with your statement. I would never want my country to suppress contrarian views. It doesn't even matter if the majority thinks the minorities view are crazy or looney, they have that right.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2007
  29. PATRIOTS-80

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    I have seen a documentary on CNN that shows cartoons for young people showing them jews are inferior creatures and descendants of monkeys and pigs. They showed textbooks for high school students teaching the same thing. There are drama shows put out on state television showing evil Jewish doctors stealing organs like eyes from Arab children, and the Arab children waking up from the operation saying "my eyes, my eyes." We have not seen propoganda like this since the days of Goerbels.
  30. wistahpatsfan

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    Talk about taking things out of context!
    I value the First more than anything! I was referring to a part of the world that has a culture that is as alien to us as exterrestrials would be. Their culture thinks adherence to biblical jive is the most important thing of ALL - bar none! And to be honest, it is none of my business what another culture holds dear to them, as long as it doesn't include hurting my kids. I understand that this is how Israel feels by being a cat in a dogpound.

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