Would you do this trade?

[Rob0729]

Vrabel is at the end of his career, Thomas is still a physical freak. The 2 situations cannot be compared at all.

What did you see out Thomas to think he is still a physical freak? His inability to consistently pressure the QB?

Was only using that to show that the general thought regarding Thomas has been wrong recently.

Well, just because general perceptions were wrong then, it doesn't mean they are now.

From the surface of what we see/know, it seems the odds are high he won't be here. But I can all but guarantee he won't be traded for nothing. If there's nothing of value to get in trade he will remain here.

If the Pats don't want Thomas and they can't get a good deal for him, they will trade him for nothing just to make sure he doesn't go to a team that could haunt the Pats in 2010 season. I don't think they will keep Thomas or any player they don't want just because they can't get trade value for him.

He definitely still has a lot of talent. Sure he underperformed this year along with a myriad of attitude issues, but he still has the physical skills to be a player in this league. We'll get a lot more than Branch for him.

First, how do you know that? Have you watched the game film or seen him in practice? The guy is 32 years old and age could be catching up to him. A guy his size who relies on speed like he does could lose a step or three in his early 30s especially after two injury plagued seasons.

Second, how do you know you can get anything for him? Typically guys like Thomas (older guys coming off a bad year with attitude problems) command very little in trades because most teams figure that the team will eventually just cut the player outright if they cannot find a trade partner. I expect teams to offer very little for Thomas. In fact, Thomas may not be enough to get Branch.

 

[emoney_33]

You can see he still has the talent by watching him keep up with TEs and drive blockers into the backfield. He didn't have a great year and his attitude was a big problem, but there's no sign of him having a huge drop in physical abilities. If there were a clear sign you would not be nearly as worried about him going to the Jets. You don't "resurrect" declined and aged physical abilities.

It makes no sense to drop him or trade him for nothing. BB is not a stubborn fool. He is the one who gets the undervalued malcontents (Dillon, Moss) not the one who loses them for nothing (Branch, Seymour - although I wouldn't call Seymour a malcontent).

If Thomas was a FA it would be a different story.

 

[BradyFTW!]

On one hand, I'd rather we trade Thomas than release him. As big of a cancer as he is, he is still a very talented football player, which means that he'll have some value. I doubt we'll get much for him, but at least a trade (preferably to an NFC team) will keep him away from the Jets. OTOH, I don't want Branch at all. So... no? I'd rather the Pats trade Thomas for a day-two pick than for Branch; I don't bear him any ill will, I just don't see the point in trading for a WR with miniscule production and one knee

 

[WhiZa]

Thomas can and will still be productive. His knock is he is a cancer in the locker room so even if he becomes the NFL MVP the team still wont win. I say make the trade as he's just going to be cut anyway.

 

[Rob0729]

You can see he still has the talent by watching him keep up with TEs and drive blockers into the backfield. He didn't have a great year and his attitude was a big problem, but there's no sign of him having a huge drop in physical abilities. If there were a clear sign you would not be nearly as worried about him going to the Jets. You don't "resurrect" declined and aged physical abilities.

It makes no sense to drop him or trade him for nothing. BB is not a stubborn fool. He is the one who gets the undervalued malcontents (Dillon, Moss) not the one who loses them for nothing (Branch, Seymour - although I wouldn't call Seymour a malcontent).

If Thomas was a FA it would be a different story.

His skills were well showcased in his ability to get nowhere near the QB like an elite bust most of this year. No one was one step too slow through the line than him. His coverage skils were awesome utilizing the let the guy you are covering being wide open style of defense.

Seriously, what Adalius Thomas were you watching. For most of the year, he was slow and non-aggressive. He had some bursts of explosiveness, but for the most part he looked like a player who had age and injuries catching up to him.

The Pats traded Vrabel for nothing to keep him out of the Jets' hands. Why wouldn't they do the same for Thomas. Even if you think the player has deeply diminished skills doesn't mean you let him go to a division rival who can even get him to be an effective role player.

People are not going to line up to acquire Thomas and his salary. If the Pats could get a fourth or fifth round for the guy, he will be gone as soon as possible. If that is what they are offering for Branch as the rumors state, I can easily see them trading the players straight up. Thomas is a declining player with an attitude problem and a big salary. He trade him for what you can get.

BTW, comparing trading Branch who was a young WR who's start was on the incline to Thomas who will be 33 in July is silly. Branch shot his way out of town, but he had a lot of trade value (got the Pats a first rounder). Why would they trade him for nothing? Thomas won't have much trade value.

The Pats let Terry Glenn go for next to nothing (a fourth rounder with another conditional pick which turned out to be a fourth because he was a full time starter) where his value as a receiver was worth far more. They let Corey Dillon go for nothing (who was far more broken down than Thomas, but still a malcontent). They cut Doug Gabriel even after trading a fifth rounder to get him. They let Ty Law walk rather than trading him. Same with Lawyer Milloy.

 

[emoney_33]

Vrabel was not a malcontent and slowed down a LOT, plus he was part of the Cassel deal. I'd buy it more as a favor to Pioli then the big leap to "they traded him for nothing to keep him away from the Jets".

Branch was holding out, teams weren't lined up to trade for him outside of the Seahawks (Jets tampering notwithstanding).

Glenn was given multiple chances, and was disciplined a lot more severely (shut down for the season, denied a SB ring). They still got 2 fourths out of the severe malcontent, which isn't "next to nothing".

Corey Dillon was done, he didn't play for another team after we dropped him... he retired.

Law and Milloy would have been your best arguments but they were cut for salary cap reasons.

Adalius isn't going to be a cap casualty, he isn't at the dead end of his career, I would be completely shocked if he was traded for nothing.

PS: He wouldn't have started in the playoffs if he was considered THAT much of a "cancer" like Terry Glenn was.

 

[Prufrock]

The Pats let Terry Glenn go for next to nothing (a fourth rounder with another conditional pick which turned out to be a fourth because he was a full time starter) where his value as a receiver was worth far more. They let Corey Dillon go for nothing (who was far more broken down than Thomas, but still a malcontent). They cut Doug Gabriel even after trading a fifth rounder to get him. They let Ty Law walk rather than trading him. Same with Lawyer Milloy.

Yes, but none of the players you mentioned are 6'2" 270 lb pass rushing linebackers. They knew that Doug Gabriel or Ty Law weren't the type of players that would get a chance to decapitate Brady twice a year.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Has anyone seen a good bulk of Seahawks games to judge this guy's play? I can't imagine he is the same player he once was. If so, I'd rather go for a younger and healthier guy at WR. Branch and Brady were great, but it's not 2004 anymore.

I'd like to see BB try to mend fences with AD. I think AD could very useful as a SILB. He has good strength to stack and shed and can play on early downs. You can bring in Guyton for coverage on 3rd downs. I don't think AD is done yet, but I don't think he's the pass rusher he once was.

 

[Rob0729]

Vrabel was not a malcontent and slowed down a LOT, plus he was part of the Cassel deal. I'd buy it more as a favor to Pioli then the big leap to "they traded him for nothing to keep him away from the Jets".

Branch was holding out, teams weren't lined up to trade for him outside of the Seahawks (Jets tampering notwithstanding).

Glenn was given multiple chances, and was disciplined a lot more severely (shut down for the season, denied a SB ring). They still got 2 fourths out of the severe malcontent, which isn't "next to nothing".

Corey Dillon was done, he didn't play for another team after we dropped him... he retired.

Law and Milloy would have been your best arguments but they were cut for salary cap reasons.

Adalius isn't going to be a cap casualty, he isn't at the dead end of his career, I would be completely shocked if he was traded for nothing.

PS: He wouldn't have started in the playoffs if he was considered THAT much of a "cancer" like Terry Glenn was.

Vrabel was a bit of a malcontent. He slammed Bob Kraft for putting all of his money into Patriot Place rather than paying players. He reportedly was a thorn in Kraft's and Belichick's side as a player's rep. Neither Belichick nor Kraft shed a tear when he left.

Law and Milloy may have been cap casulaties, but both had trade value. Neither were traded.

I think I agree with you that they won't trade him for nothing because I still think he will be cut out right. His money can be used elsewhere with someone who can contribute to the team and he has worn out his welcome with the Pats. Since that is no secret, I doubt that they will find a trade partner.

As for Thomas starting, Belichick is going to play whatever player he has to win. Just because Thomas was his best option (TBC is more of pure pass rusher, Burgess was a disapointment, Woods is a JAG) in 2009 doesn't mean that he is satisfied with him and is willing to keep him. If Belichick can get Peppers or another player capable of starting at OLB and resigns TBC and/or Burgess, he will probably let Thomas go and add a player or two in the draft.

There is a 5-10% chance that Belichick mends his differences with Thomas and he stays, but that is a very slim chance.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, but none of the players you mentioned are 6'2" 270 lb pass rushing linebackers. They knew that Doug Gabriel or Ty Law weren't the type of players that would get a chance to decapitate Brady twice a year.

Who cares if he is a 6'2" 270lb LB? Ty Law was a shutdown CB before he broke his foot and those don't grow on trees especially since the Pats have been looking for one since he left (and as good as Samuel was here, I never considered him to be a shutdown CB).

 

[emoney_33]

Law and Milloy may have been cap casulaties, but both had trade value. Neither were traded.

Just what are you arguing here? Are you suggesting BB refused to trade them and rather cut them? What does this have to do with your argument that BB will cut or trade Adalius for nothing?

I think I agree with you that they won't trade him for nothing because I still think he will be cut out right. His money can be used elsewhere with someone who can contribute to the team and he has worn out his welcome with the Pats. Since that is no secret, I doubt that they will find a trade partner.

How much money is Adalius due? There was only $15M non-guaranteed money on his contract when he signed I thought.

Branch wore out his welcome and refused to play, they still found a trade partner.

As for Thomas starting, Belichick is going to play whatever player he has to win. Just because Thomas was his best option (TBC is more of pure pass rusher, Burgess was a disapointment, Woods is a JAG) in 2009 doesn't mean that he is satisfied with him and is willing to keep him. If Belichick can get Peppers or another player capable of starting at OLB and resigns TBC and/or Burgess, he will probably let Thomas go and add a player or two in the draft.

Terry Glenn was EASILY his best receiver in 2001. Adalius was benched in 2 games. Seymour was benched in his prime. It all debunks your notion that BB will never bench or refuse to start the best player.

There is a 5-10% chance that Belichick mends his differences with Thomas and he stays, but that is a very slim chance.

Want to pull some more numbers out of thin air?

Look none of us know just how poorly strained their relationship is or how disruptive BB feels that Adalius is in the locker room. It will have to be ridiculously bad for BB to outright cut or give away a talent like Adalius. I just don't see it happening, as I don't believe it's as bad as the media/fans make it out to be.

 

[Disco Volante]

Just please get Adalius Jetson off the team.

 

[Rob0729]

Just what are you arguing here? Are you suggesting BB refused to trade them and rather cut them? What does this have to do with your argument that BB will cut or trade Adalius for nothing?

No. I am stating that if Belichick cuts Thomas outright, he wouldn't be the first player who he cut with trade value but he couldn't get anythign for them because they know he is cut.

How much money is Adalius due? There was only $15M non-guaranteed money on his contract when he signed I thought.

He is due

Branch wore out his welcome and refused to play, they still found a trade partner.

Branch was 26 and reaching his prime. Unless 33 is Thomas' prime, I don't see the correlation. Besides, Branch was never a cancer during the season like Thomas was. He was trying to get a deal during the offseason and played hardball.

Terry Glenn was EASILY his best receiver in 2001. Adalius was benched in 2 games. Seymour was benched in his prime. It all debunks your notion that BB will never bench or refuse to start the best player.

Congrats! You debunked something I never argued. I never said that Belichick never benches players his best players. But congrats for winning an one sided argument.

Want to pull some more numbers out of thin air?

You want me just to say next to no chance.

Look none of us know just how poorly strained their relationship is or how disruptive BB feels that Adalius is in the locker room. It will have to be ridiculously bad for BB to outright cut or give away a talent like Adalius. I just don't see it happening, as I don't believe it's as bad as the media/fans make it out to be.

If it is that hard to cut an average talent like Thomas. Imagine what an above average talent would have to do. Sorry, but at this point, calling Thomas average might be overstating it.

 

[emoney_33]

No. I am stating that if Belichick cuts Thomas outright, he wouldn't be the first player who he cut with trade value but he couldn't get anythign for them because they know he is cut.

He will be the first talented player cut outright for a reason that has nothing to do with the cap. You act as if BB has done that before, he has not.

He is due

...

Branch was 26 and reaching his prime. Unless 33 is Thomas' prime, I don't see the correlation. Besides, Branch was never a cancer during the season like Thomas was. He was trying to get a deal during the offseason and played hardball.

Branch was never as physically gifted and valuable at his position as Thomas was. The point is Branch was holding out, everyone knew he wasn't going to play here, and Seattle STILL gave up a 1st for him.

Congrats! You debunked something I never argued. I never said that Belichick never benches players his best players. But congrats for winning an one sided argument.

As for Thomas starting, Belichick is going to play whatever player he has to win. Just because Thomas was his best option (TBC is more of pure pass rusher, Burgess was a disapointment, Woods is a JAG) in 2009 doesn't mean that he is satisfied with him and is willing to keep him.

You stated that Thomas started because he was the best option. I pointed out that the "best" options have been benched in the past, and if he was SUCH a locker room cancer I highly doubt that BB would have kept starting him.

If it is that hard to cut an average talent like Thomas. Imagine what an above average talent would have to do. Sorry, but at this point, calling Thomas average might be overstating it.

You may have a personal bias against Thomas, and that's fine his attitude this season was pretty disgusting at times. But really come on now, Thomas still is above average talent. Your personal worry about him going to the Jets points to the fact that you KNOW this but just refuse to outright admit it.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, Felger said on his show today that his sources says that the Pats started to have buyer's remorse on Thomas even before he played a single down because of his laxidasical approach to preseason preparation. This supports Michael Holley's sources (most likely Colvin) that Thomas had heat with many of the veterans from right off the bat because he wanted everyone to do it the way they did it in Baltimore. And we know he wasn't all that popular in Baltimore according to Ray Lewis.

I think Belichick can't wait to get rid of Thomas. He would probably have been cut already if the Pats had the cap room to do it (they are about $4 million short to cut him before March 5).

 

[RobertWeathers]

BTW, Felger said on his show today that his sources says that the Pats started to have buyer's remorse on Thomas even before he played a single down because of his laxidasical approach to preseason preparation. This supports Michael Holley's sources (most likely Colvin) that Thomas had heat with many of the veterans from right off the bat because he wanted everyone to do it the way they did it in Baltimore. And we know he wasn't all that popular in Baltimore according to Ray Lewis.

I think Belichick can't wait to get rid of Thomas. He would probably have been cut already if the Pats had the cap room to do it (they are about $4 million short to cut him before March 5).

I heard that too. Felger went on about how Thomas was lax in the weight room, game film etc and they'd be, "We paid $20m for this?". Thats harsh.

I guess after a while, I'd get sick of how much money my boss was paying me throw that back in my face all the time too.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I heard that too. Felger went on about how Thomas was lax in the weight room, game film etc and they'd be, "We paid $20m for this?". Thats harsh.

I guess after a while, I'd get sick of how much money my boss was paying me throw that back in my face all the time too.

That's interesting b/c when Adalius was on Felger and Mazz, Felger asked him about BB saying "we backed up the Brinks truck for you and this is what you give us?"

And Adalius said whoever gave Felger that story "should be shot" b/c it was untrue.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[muzz]

Reiss mentioned it in a blog and in his maibag. Adalius Thomas for Deon Branch. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd even think about throwing in a late draft pick if needed, 6th or 7th.

Both are losers, but I think you can get more than a 1 legged bum with an attitude and a big contract for Thomas.

Meion screwed the franchise over, he can drive off a bridge for all I care.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's interesting b/c when Adalius was on Felger and Mazz, Felger asked him about BB saying "we backed up the Brinks truck for you and this is what you give us?"

And Adalius said whoever gave Felger that story "should be shot" b/c it was untrue.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

As the world turns....so are the Days of Our Lives.