Would Weis be an upgrade over McDaniels as OC?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Nov 29, 2008.


Is Weis an Upgrade, Downgrade, or Even Swap compared to McDaniels as OC?

Poll closed Feb 27, 2009.
  1. Weis is an upgrade over McDaniels

  2. Weis is a downgrade over McDaniels

  3. Weis and McDaniels is pretty much an even swap

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    Here's a pretty simple poll:

    Given the strong speculation that Weis will be fired as HC of ND - and the strong speculation that McDaniels will be a contender for a HC position of his own next year - would you view Weis as an upgrade, downgrade or pretty much the status quo at Offensive Coordinator for the 2009 Patriots?

    Recognizing there's a lot of "if's" here - for the purposes of this poll, assume McDaniels accepts a HC position, Weis is fired, wants to come back here and Belichick wants him back.

    Feel free to discuss your rationale

    Again - this is NOT a poll asking if you want to keep McDaniels - assume he's gone after this season.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  2. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan In the Starting Line-Up

    Weis looks for matchups

    McDaniels will bang the oppositions' heads with the strengths of this team

    Not saying JM is bad or anything, but looking for matchups has been somewhat of a weakness since Weis left. JMHO
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Nothing against Charlie who I really like as the OC, you have to look at the body of work last year.. and what has happened to Cassell this year.. right now McDaniels is the best OC for this team..
  4. slash83

    slash83 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    Id be fine with keeping McDaniels over Weis, our offense has been great with McDaniels no need for a change there. If he leaves though for a HC position Weis would be on the top of my list for McDaniels replacement.
  5. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #15 Jersey

    Let's go out and get Mike Martz. If you can't beat 'em join 'em, right? Josh will be coaching somewhere else next year, no doubt about it.
  6. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    Believe it or not I was somewhat torn, as I can definately make some arguments that given the pros and cons of both, it'd be an even swap. (The Pros of McDaniels primarilly being that he knows this current personnel - but again, keeping him is not an option in this poll)

    But all things considered - and especially given the breadth and depth of Weis' experience, I have to give him the edge over McDaniels and call it an upgrade.

    If the question were keeping McDaniels or upgrading with Weis, I'd go with McDaniels as the less change the better for the offense. But that's not what we're talking about here... assuming McDaniels is gone, and Weis is back in at OC, I have to give Weis a decent edge over an OC like McDaniels who has limited NFL experience.

    I'll confess that I'll defer to any Notre Dame fan as far as knowing of Weis' experience at ND - but I put Weis in a class of guys who are better suited to be Coordinators rather than coaches. No knock on McDaniels as an OC, but I get the feeling he might be in that same category, with HC in the NFL that much harder than coaching 18-22 year olds in College.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    As noted, for the purposes of this poll, assume McDaniels is gone and Weis is in.

    Is Weis an upgrade, downgrade, or even swap?

    This isn't a poll asking whether you want to jettison McDaniels to a HC position with another team.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    It's hard to tell. Both have been brilliant at times, both have made calls that make you cringe at times.

    Overall I am happy with both as playcallers, so I would take either one. I know Charlie has the rings, but the only times this offense has had trouble moving the ball in the playoffs under JM was in '06 @ SD and last year's SB, and neither were truly his fault IMO. Our offense had some tough performances even in the championship years under Charlie.
  9. Rawky77

    Rawky77 On the Game Day Roster

    Weis has way too many gimmicky throw away plays for my liking. Josh consistently plays to the oppositions weakness while keeping the opposition honest with adequate smash mouth run plays.

    The offense no longer needs to play tricky every week to win but i doubt weis would be able to control his desire to run them anyway.
  10. slash83

    slash83 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    I voted for even swap, but Id prefer no change.
  11. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'll take Weiss, he has three rings with BB and Brady. He and Brady are very close.

    Weiss is an offensive genius and he certainly has great game day calling intuition and skill which has taken him a career to hone.

    Think about some of tPatriot offenses he won with and how he did it

    Give Charlie weapons such as this team now has and the results woudl be incredible, also, I really think he would have made the difference last Feb.

    I like Josh McD, but he will gone soon and Weiss should settle in nicely for a number years.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  12. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Weis is a downgrade over J McD who is on the rise and yet to meet his potential. That said, I love Weis in training camp when he humerously dumps over the players when they screw up. Yet another feature lost when the Pats went bigtime corporate and left Smithfield. You could stand on the sidelines there and hear it all. Freakin' hilarious.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    McDaniels and Weis were better and worse than other in different ways. I think both brought different things to the table. I would rather have McDaniels on a critical third down play, but I would rather have Charlie on a final drive. I think both have strong relationships with Brady so I see no advantage their other than maybe a slight edge to McDaniels because Brady loves the shotgun and so does McDaniels while Weis isn't a huge fan. Both guys had their flaws that got the offense in trouble at times too.

    I would be happy with either guy, but if I had a choice of both now it would be McDaniels. I'd rather keep the continuity as is.
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    Again, just to re-stress, for the purposes of this poll, McDaniels is gone and Weis is here. Upgrade, Downgrade, Even swap.

    I'd wager that the vast majority of us would prefer consistency in our Coordinators and coaching positions. But that's not the question here.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Tough to tell. I would say a fairly even swap, but depending on how they change the personnel next year I would say it is a downgrade based on this year's team (with or without Brady). This offense is more tooled for McDaniels' style of play calling than Weis'. Weis tends to favor the TE and FB far more than McDaniels does and that is arguably the two weakest areas of the offense. Heath Evans is a good blocker, but he isn't a passing or rushing threat like Larry Centers, Marc Edwards, or Patrick Pass were.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  16. Truck

    Truck Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    I think its hard to tell. Weis has a history of making the offense overachieve (or rather make the big plays when needed); and was able to do it with less talent. McD has been able to get this offense to click, but hasn't been able to get the last game winning (or tieing) playoff drive to succeed.

    If Weis had 07 Pats offense, you don't know whether he'd have changed his philosophy or not. Often coaches have a style, and their success depends on having players who meet that style. Would Weis have gone shotgun, pass happy like McD if he were OC last year and led the team to the greatest offensive season in history; or would he have tried to force the run?

    I think McD has more upside (he's still young & learning); and given we know the offense works as is, I'd take McD next year over Weis.

    But Weis brings stability as well. If Weis were the OC next year, he'd be the OC for the rest of Brady's career (I doubt he'd get a HC job for a few years).

    So here's how I'd rank them:
    1. McD stays as OC until Brady is out
    2. McD takes a HC position in the same year Weis gets fired and Weis takes the spot
    3. Worst case: McD takes a HC position in a year that Weis doesn't get fired, and we're left to find someone (or internal promotion) to take the spot and have to deal with the growing pains...
  17. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    I never really thought this offense was built with McDaniels in mind - I'd say that McDaniels has adapted to the offense that's here - which is a compliment in my book.

    I felt Weis also was adept at that though.

    This season, McDaniels has shown he can get the most out of an average offense. Weis was able to do that and win Super Bowls (with a less talented WR corps but of course, WITH Brady). I'm sure there'd be a learning curve with Weis getting to know the offense, but all things even, noting that keeping McDaniels is not an option, I'll give Weis' experience the edge, noting he has just a bit more time in the NFL than McDaniels, and call him an upgrade.
  18. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    even though McDaniels probably single handedly cost us a perfect season by failing to change his gameplan in the super bowl, I think he learned his lesson. He has been great this year in calling plays and integrating more plays into the offense as Cassel has improved. I like him now. Weis would be a nice addition, but how can you replace a guy who ran the most prolific offense of all time just 1 year ago?
  19. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Agreed. Weis has won 3 superbowls while McDaniels offense has just put up staggering numbers. Granted you need a defense to win games too but, Weis was able to scored enough to win close games and big games with a less talented offense.
  20. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    Let's say Weis doesn't come back AND McDaniels leaves...who is in line after JM? Will it be BB doing the OC stuff again for a season while coaching up an assistant like what happened in 05, or would we maybe bring in someone new?
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