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Would Gaffney have helped this team?? How about Vrabel??

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by RhodyPatriot, Jan 4, 2010.

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  1. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    You bet! This team does not have quality depth and letting players like this go is why. Vrabel's toughness and smarts alone would be helping this D and don't even get me started on casting off guys like Gaffney.
  2. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Btw there is a really good chance Wes is gone all of next season so there are 2 major holes at WR that need to be filled along with age/injury at RB. The bloom is most definitely off this franchise rose. Too many bad drafts and too many quality role players let go for no good reason has finally taken its' toll on this team.
  3. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    Unless Vrabel can get to the QB, then no he could not help this team. Gaffney probably could help though.
  4. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is only your unsupported opinion that says that Gaffney and Vrabel would have helped this team. I watched 4 different Chiefs games this year and I have to say that Vrabel wasn't effective at all.

    As for Gaffney, the $2.5 million he got from Denver was, in my opinion, McDaniels way of getting a decent receiver to go with him. In hindsight, yes Gaffney was better than Galloway. However, it was a 50/50 shot that Galloway wouldn't work out. Galloway was cheaper and had the speed to run the intermediate routes the Pats were looking for...
  5. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    I'm seeing blown coverages with the D every game. Really think Vrabel's smarts on the field could help.
  6. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    That is something I agree with you, Vrabel had 50 tackles and 2 sacks this year... He would have not helped us at all..
  7. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Whats the point, they're not here, its water under the bridge over the dam or however the saying goes.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How the hell do you know anything about how long Welker will be gone for? You don't. No one knows the TRUE extent of the injury yet. And that includes Welker and the doctors.

    As for this stupid idea that there have been "too many bad drafts" you just don't know wtf you are talking about. You are just spewing doom and gloom because you are all hyped up about the Welker injury and you feel some need to vent your frustrations because you either can't grasp or refuse to grasp the idea that this team is more than about ONE player.
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Vrabel can't help the CBs with blown coverages. Heck, considering that he rarely dropped back into coverage himself, I'm not sure he'd help there either.

    Vrabel was bad in KC. It was disappointing because I truly like the guy. He was one of my favorite Patriots, but the reality is that he's not the player he was 2 years ago. BB knew this and traded him. And all the brains in the world aren't going to help you catch up and stop a RB who had blown by you or set the edge on the outside run when the tackle had dumped you on your keaster.
  10. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    I've preached for a long time that a team starts to fall apart

    when players that leave a team are replaced by inferior players.

    This has happened to the Patriots on defense. If the trend

    continues, they will be a run of the mill team next year,
  11. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    Well Boomer Essision , just said its a year type inj.. Which means that he is going to take a year to get back, and a good chance he is not playing in 2010... Now he could be wrong, Jerry Rice got back in 12 weeks and played a season, but its going to be a tough road for Wes...
  12. Dagg

    Dagg Rookie

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    To answer simply:

    Gaffney - yes
    Vrabel - no

    /thread over
  13. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    The point is why aren't they here?? The Patriots nickel and dime approach is starting to take a toll.
    They lack quality depth and it's killing them.
    Sam Aiken and Junior Seau or Jabar Gaffney and Mike Vrabel??
    It's no contest!!
    And don't talk to me about salary cap and all that nonsense.
    That's Bill's spin and it's weak when you see the moves other teams are able to make with their rosters when under the same cap.
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How the hell would Boomer Esiason know that? Nothing has been confirmed about the injury. No one knows whether or not its an ACL, ACL/MCL, ACL/Meniscus, or ACL/MCL/Meniscus. That won't be confirmed until they can get the swelling down and do a 2nd MRI.

    The ACL/MCL is a 6-9 month rehab to get the player to 80-90%. The last 10-20% is usually confidence and such as well as building the last bits of strength.

    Until it's know, specifically, what the issue is, there is no way to know how long it will take him to return. It's just speculation by these yahoos who have nothing better to do than predict gloom and doom.
  15. LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks

    LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks Rookie

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    Vrabel is done. Leadership is very nice to have, but you've got to be able to play the game well too. Vrabel just doesn't do that 2nd part anymore.

    Gaffney would've definitely helped, though that's more of an indication of just how bad our 3rd receiver spot has been this year with Galloway, Aiken and Stanback than Gaffney being all that good. He's not bad, but he was and is definitely replaceable. Unfortunately we just did an awful job of finding a replacement.

    I don't have a problem with letting either player go, but I do have a problem with how bad of a job we ended up doing replacing Gaffney. With all the stiffs Brady's turned into solid receivers (Hello, Reche Caldwell), can't see how we are getting so little production from Aiken and company. You have to be pretty bad to not be a good enough #3 WR in an offense led by Tom Brady and with Randy Moss and Wes Welker at WR.
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess you better find another team to whine about then
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
  17. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    If Patriot fans want to make themselves sick go back in the last 3 or 4 drafts and see how many quality LBs they've passed on.
  18. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    2009 D > 2008 D, and that's with 4/5 rookies on board at this minute in time.

    Four sacks, eleven hits, eighteen pressures, and anywhere between 36 and 66 total tackles depending on which resource you listen to - those were his stats last season.

    This season? Two sacks, two hits, thirteen pressures, and 50 total tackles.

    Vrabel was cut loose for a reason - he's simply not very good any more.

    And Gaffney wasn't cast off, he simply signed a better deal elsewhere.
  19. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gaffney definitely. That 3rd receiver option is sorely missed. Vrabel unlikely. He's one of my favourite Patriots of all time but his tenure here was done.
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know where Boomer got his medical degree, but the medical journals I looked at last night that studied WRs and RBs in the NFL with ACL tears say that he could return in as little as 7 months and has a 68% chance of being close to his preinjury state pretty quickly. There are plenty of evidence of NFL WRs returning for the start of the season. Braylon Edwards tore his ACL on December 5, 2005 and played in the preseason of 2006 and had better stats in 2006 than 2005.
  21. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First of all, there is no "Patriots Nickel and Dime approach." That is for idiots who don't understand the salary cap. And you claiming that the Salary Cap is nonsense shows that you don't understand much about the different facets of the business.

    And the cap isn't the same for every team. The starting point is the same, but the end point isn't. For a variety of reasons. Such as Likely To Be Earned Bonuses and Not Likely To Be Earned Bonuses. And the credits and debits that they get for the ones that are made and not made.

    Also, something that you clearly don't comprehend is that the trade off wasn't Gaffney for Aiken. The trade off was Gaffney for Galloway. And, at the time, the Pats thought that they were getting a WR would could work with Brady and run the intermediate routes they needed so as to open things up for Welker and Moss. Hindsight is 20/20.

    Also, it wasn't a trade off of Seau for Vrabel. There is a lot more to it than that.
  22. dhamz

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    Gaffney is better than anyone else who played the #3 WR - it was a question of whether they thought the $ Denver paid for him was too much. I wouldn't argue with the decision. The problem is the guys who replaced him were a disaster.

    Vrabel, God love him, was done as an effective football player and can't help anyone.
  23. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can we get a "Rear-view Mirror" Forum for some of these nostalgic posters who cannot deal with the present time or reality?
  24. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I'm sorry but Jabar Gaffney is not going to make or break this team. He was there in 2006 when our offense did next to nothing in the 2nd half of the AFCCG while the defense crumbled. He was there in 2007 when the Giants thwarted our unstoppable offense. And to add to this, Wes Welker was here for one of those games too and for the Broncos/Colts/Dolphins games THIS year when we were completely inept in the 2nd half again. The key will be Brady and the OL (and how we gameplan). He still has Moss, Edelman, Watson, Faulk, and hopefully other options stepping up to throw to. You can't tell me the '01,'03, and '04 reciever sets were that much more impressive than the set we have now. The only issue is how fast Brady can adapt and he will have to in a hurry.

    As far as Vrabel, he appeared done last season. And that was a year ago.
  25. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yogi would love you for this one...
  26. Rob0729

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    First, Vrabel is one of my favorite all time players, but he clearly is a shell of his former self. He wouldn't have been able to beat TBC or Burgess out passing downs where he would have been needed. Belichick most likely would have used him as a run down specialist like he did with Bruschi last year.

    Second, Gaffney would have helped, but when Denver aggressively goes after the guy when the Pats had no cap room to play with, there is only so much the Pats could do. Who was to know that the Galloway experiment would have been so bad? No one.

    It is easy to play armchair GM after the fact. Even so, I disagree with much of your assessment. I don't think Vrabel would have helped the defense's biggest problem - pressuring the passer - because I don't think he would be on the field on passing downs.
  27. livinginthe past

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    I guess ridiculously facile deduction makes you some sort of footballing savant?

    [​IMG]
  28. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    It is simply an observation from watching 50 years of

    Patriot's football. All prior teams had their downfall for

    the reason I stated.
  29. Rob0729

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    Other than Asante Samuel and Seymour (who I think will have his replacement this offseason which could even be Seymour himself), who falls in this category?

    Vrabel? Burgess and/or TBC replaced him and both have more sacks than Vrabel (Burgess 5, TBC 9.5, and Vrabel 2). In fact, both Burgess and TBC have more sacks than Vrabel had on this team last year (4). TBC has more tackles than Vrabel too (54 for TBC and 50 for Vrabel) It seems the Pats upgraded over him.

    Ellis Hobbs? I do think that Hobbs gets too much undeserved crap for his play, but Bodden is clearly an upgrade. I thought Hobbs was a good player, but Bodden is better. Springs when healthy is probably too.

    Rodney? Rodney was arguably one of the top 5 players of the Super Bowl run, but last year he was slow and a liability. Harrison knew he was done and retired. McGowan was a slight upgrade.

    Tedy? Sorry, but Tedy (my favorite player ever) was done before last season. The Pats miss his leadership, but not his production on the field. You can argue that Mayo was his replacement just brought in a year early and he is an upgrade. In fact, so is Guyton.

    I guess you can make the argument for the Super Bowl era players (McGinest, Law, etc.), but those were special players who fit into the defense perfectly.

    As for the trend continuing, I doubt it. If there is a cap next year, the Pats will be $45-50 million under it. Even with having to resign key players (Wlifork, Mankins, and Gostkowski), they will have plenty of money to pursue LB and DE help.
  30. livinginthe past

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    I bet you also noticed (during your 50 years of watching Patriots football) that teams who scored less than their opponents generally lost more then they won?
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