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Would Cassel have gone anywhere the Patriots would have wanted to send him?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Mar 1, 2009.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I don;t think so - and ultimately that could have been what limited Cassel's value to a 2nd round draft pick.

    I've posted this theory in a few threads though wanted to flesh out the theory a bit more.

    Everyone's questioning why Cassel wasn't traded to the highest bidding team.

    Seems to me the answer is clear: Because Cassel had no interest in going to the highest bidding team.

    Futhermore Cassel, by making it clear he'd refuse to negotiate a long-term deal with any new team - had the ability to block any trade to any team - and ultimately could choose among those teams who had an interest in him.

    Is it really a huge stretch of the imagination to think that Cassel might have preferred to play for a Belichick GM disciple, in an organization that not only had enough cap space to give him a lucrative long-term deal - but also enough cap space and desire to afford a supporting cast of players? And is it really a stretch of the imagination to think that Cassel might realize that the prospects for he and his new team would be weaker, not stronger, if they had to give up a 1st round draft choice or more to get him?

    Given the fact that there might have been very few teams that Cassel wanted to play for - indeed, perhaps only one - would that make it less surprising for many that the Patriots weren't in a position to auction Cassel off solely to the highest bidder?

    Any thoughts on this theory?
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  2. matt1073

    matt1073 Guest

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    Re: Would Cassel have gone anywhere the Patriots have wanted to send him?

    I think the pats mentality was to dump cassel off as fast as possible they were not going to wait for the market to change they just wanted to get value for a guy that was going to leave going to leave via free agency.
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Re: Would Cassel have gone anywhere the Patriots have wanted to send him?

    My point is that "what the Patriots want" makes no difference if Cassel is unwilling to be traded to any particular team.
  4. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it's very possible - but also something that we'll most likely never find out for sure. But would he really say yes to 2-win KC and no to 9-win Tampa Bay, or 8-win Denver and McDaniels? I can understand refusing to go to Oakland or Detroit, but not to either of those teams - unless, for some reason, he didn't want to play for McDaniels that we are not aware of.
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    You're correct that we'll probably never know. I can't see any of the parties - Pioli, Cassel, or Belichick, divulging the details of what went on during negotiations.

    Of course that's the main point - that it was a three way negotiation. Everyone seems to be talking like it was a two way negotiation between the Patriots and other teams. It never was - and in fact Cassel really held the most important cards.

    But to your point that Denver or Tampa wouldn't be a bad place to land, KC had a lot going for it, that likely made it the preferred choice for Cassel even over Tampa or Denver.

    1.) Low expectations. Coming off a 2 win season would any KC fans be outrageously dissapointed if Cassel came in to a rebuilding organization and they had an 8-8 season?

    Would Denver fans be disappointed getting rid of a veteran QB, bringing in Cassel and going 8-8?

    I'd say KC wins that choice from Cassel's perspective.

    2.) Quality GM. Which team would you think has the GM most likely to build a winner? KC, Denver or Tampa?

    Again, I'd give that one to KC.

    3.) Cap space: Of those three teams, which team had the most cap space both to pay Cassel and give him the supporting cast of characters?

    On this one Tampa and KC would be pretty close if I recall. Denver wasn't in cap hell but there was a difference of $20 million between the Broncos and KC/Tampa.

    4. Coaching: On this one I'd probably give Denver an edge - but Pioli's hand picked coach isn't going to be bad news for Cassel either.

    There's also a ton of pressure playing in Denver that one wouldn't see in KC in a rebuilding mode. If I'm forgetting something let me know, but it could well be that Cassel decided that KC was the place for him and little else mattered.
  6. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Cassel has some power in all of this but not a huge amount. Its not like baseball where he can just refuse. The Patriots can trade him to whomever they want an he has to go. Once he is there though he could make a big stink and so forth but I don't think he is the kind of player to do that and would only be hurting his future value.
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    No - I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that... unless you think that Tampa and Denver were willing to give up a 1st round pick to rent Cassel for one year and then franchise him again.

    It's well established that Cassel can block any trade by refusing to negotiate a long-term deal. If Cassel tells them he's not interested in negotiating a long-term contract the deal doesn't happen.

    And while I know there has been no long-term deal announced by KC, I'd be surprised if negotiations didn't begin even before the trade, and I suspect something will be announced in the near future.
  8. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    I don't believe a contract was developed with Cassel or Vrabel. Even Reiss mentioned this fact. In reality Cassel had no right to refuse to go to a specific team once he signed the tender. Any player under contract can be traded.
  9. BSR

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    That is a point of negotiation. That doesn't mean he can't be traded. Would a team be less likely to trade for him if they knew he wouldn't negotiate? Sure but you are assuming they know. The patriots don't have to allow them to talk.
  10. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Yeah - just a minor point of negotiation.

    So you're saying that the Broncos and Bucaneers were willing to give up 1st round picks even if Cassel had told them he was unwilling to stay there for more than one season?

    Wow!

    I'll also give you credit for your level of trust that Cassel's agent wouldn't so much as send a text message to explore how much they might be willing to pay Cassel. Remind me not to burst your bubble about tampering in the NFL either.

    I'd be surprised if KC traded a 2nd rounder without at least Cassel's agreement to negotiate in good faith on a long-term deal. But given the high potential for an uncapped year, when Cassel might decide he could really could clean up, I suppose I shouldn't rule out his potential willingness to take the risk. It;s a stretch but I can see the Chiefs maybe taking that risk with a 2nd.

    But how many teams can you cite who have traded a 1st round draft pick to rent a player for one season?
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  11. BSR

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    Where you around for the Bledsoe trade? If you were you would remember how the Bills made a big deal about saying that they would have paid more for Bledsoe were allowed to speak to them first. And again, Cassel has been the consumate good soldier and there is no evidence that he is some primadona demanding to go to this team or that team.

    I understand people are trying to find their own justification of why this happened. There were no other trades. They needed the cap room. They didn't want a first rounder. BB did SP a favor. Whatever. The reality was they screwed up. It happens.
  12. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Cassel had to go wherever the Patriots traded him. He was

    under contract for one year to the Patriots for 14.6 million

    per year and the Patriots could trade that contract. The

    kicker is that he does not have to agree to tear up that contract

    and sign a long term deal. Kansas City has bought themselves

    a pig in a poke if he won't agree to a long term deal.
  13. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Thanks for everyone who explained to me that the Patriots could trade Cassel on a one year franchise contract. That's really helpful information and I think there was a lot of confusion about that. :rolleyes:

    As Peter King wrote the Chiefs ARE attempting to negotiate a long-term salary with Cassel (though they want him to take less than top dollar or they'll risk their second round pick (note, not a 1st) based on how he plays this season. So it's established that Cassel is actually willing to discuss a long-term deal with the Chiefs - and has not refused to do so.

    But overall we're making progress.

    You've established that:

    1.) Belichick is a big softee who would rather do favors for former employees than get top value for his draft picks and

    2.) An agent prohibited from talking to other teams about a player on the trading block would never violate that sort of trust (as a side note, players' agents are just innocent victims when teams engage in tampering) and

    3.) It's common for teams to give up 1st round draft picks to rent players for just one year - especially players who have no intention to sign a long-term deal.

    So can you now tell me how many players have been traded for first round picks to teams that only expect them to play for one year?

    Some names would be helpful.

    Just one to start would be nice.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  14. BSR

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    I've established none of those points, nor did I attempt to.

    I agree his refusal to negotiate a long term contract would effect his trading value, but there is no evidence that he is making that type of refusal here. He has, up to this point, been the good soldier and played along with everything never once giving any indication that he wanted to play for that team or this team. I've also shown an example that there are first round draft picks exchanged without teams having a chance to talk to the player so it is possible that there are some agents that don't leak information.

    Now could Cassel have been demanding things behind closed doors? Sure. But that is blind speculation without any evidence whatsoever. Especially when you consider how public this whole process has been, you would think a little tid bit like that would have leaked out.

    My point wasn't that teams are willing to trade a first round pick for a rental player. My point is that there is no evidence of Cassel's unwillingness in this case. The fact that KC only is speaking to Cassel about a contract now only further soldifies my assumption that BB ran this as a blind sale. Could that have made teams less likely to give more? Sure, but it also means that case Cassel didn't have any power to influence where he went.
  15. PYPER

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    Even if Cassel was willing to go anywhere, I've got to believe that Belichick would look out for the kid enough to send him someplace where he'd have a chance to be successful. At the end of the day, Belichick wants him to be successful. That probably ruled Detroit out from the beginning.
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Interesting... a reader asks Reiss in his mailbag for his take on whether or not Cassel's ability to potentially drag out, if not outright block, a trade was a factor:

    So at the very least Reiss seems to agree that Cassel's "minor" role in a trade might have been a factor... at the very least in the Pat's decision to pull the trigger with KC at a lower price rather than wait... and wait and wait for Cassel to reach an agreement with another team that would then consumate the trade and result in a draft pick.

    Another reader goes on to make a similar point about whether, and how long, it would take Cassel to reach an agreement on a contract, if at all:

    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
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