Would BB keep 5 backs?

[patsox23]

There is NO WAY we keep 4 QBs, and it's extremely likely we will keep 5 RBs. Which of these - Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans, Jordan - do you see cut? I see NONE of them cut. Closest would be Heath Evans, and he's beloved by the staff and does a ton of those "little" things.

 

[mgteich]

Herron was just on the roster out of spite by Belichick. He was quickly let go.

Excellent point.

Also everyone is getting caught up in the 5 RB's thing. BB will keep the best 53 that will help make the Pats more succesful as a team. Last yr for ex the Pats opening day roster featured 10 LB's (Alexander, Bruschi, Colvin, Herron, Izzo, Mays, Seau, Thomas, Vrabel and Woods), I don't see that being the case this yr even if a guy like Guyton makes it. We have 12 LB's in camp (Vrabel, Woods, Redd, Hobson, Alexander, Mayo, Bruschi, Izzo, Ruud, Thomas Crable, Guyton) and I have 8 definite early on here (Vrabel, Woods, Hobson, Mayo, Bruschi, Thomas, Crable, Guyton). Also keep in mind that Tank Williams has been lining up at ILB. I believe Izzo is in a battle for a roster spot but with Aiken not any of the other LB's. Aiken has played Izzo's protector role on punt team in practice and those two are battling it out for a ST position because the two are obviously strictly ST guys so they can't be looked at as a LB or WR. So in terms of last yrs roster the LB # could be down 2 to on opening day. So we can't look at it with past rosters in mind, rather we have to focus on this yr and what role each player will play-whether that be on offense, defense and/or special teams. Bottom line, the best 53 will make it and I believe that Jordan will end up being one of those, because eventhough he will not be playing ST's he can and should fill many roles in this team-so he brings value.

 

[mgteich]

Our posters do have their binkies. I would think that it is delusional to think that Guyton is a definite at this point.

You think Guyton is a definite over Alexander?

 

[Rob0729]

Not true. We were carrying 5 RBs when Morris was hurt against Dallas. Eckel scored a TD in the Dallas game.

Eckel was on the practice squad until October 1st. If Morris didn't go down, there was no guarantee he would have been kept on the active roster once Maroney got healthy.

Carrying an fifth RB for several weeks in the season because of injuries is a lot different than going into the season with 5 healthy RBs.

I do agree with the theory that Belichick doesn't sit there and worry how many players at each position, but with the questions on depth on the defense and even the o-line I don't see Belichick having the roster space for a fifth RB. I am betting Morris is the odd man out because of his salary and Evans ability to play multiple positions (FB and RB). I could be wrong though. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Rob0729]

There is NO WAY we keep 4 QBs, and it's extremely likely we will keep 5 RBs. Which of these - Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans, Jordan - do you see cut? I see NONE of them cut. Closest would be Heath Evans, and he's beloved by the staff and does a ton of those "little" things.

I see Morris being cut. If he falls behind Jordan in the depth chart, a $2.1 million cap hit along with his concerns about his injury and age and the fact that Jordan does everything that the Pats asked of Morris last year plus adds the receiving aspect makes him expendable. If cut, he may very likely be available later in the season if the Pats needed him. The Pats didn't agressively try to find his replacement this offseason and quickly scoop up Jordan if they were sold on the guy making the 53 man roster.

I see the Pats keeping 4 QBs or 5 RBs unlikely in either case. I still think the possibility of 4 QB as more likely than 5 RBs. I think both are slim to happen though. We have too many spots where extra roster spots for depth are more important. Would they rather have Morris on the team as an inactive scratch every week for insurance or a guy like Guyton or Ruud or Redd who might develop into a solid role player in the future and can make a contribution on game day as a pure special teamer? I am guessing the later. That is why I think a 4th QB may be more likely because Guttieriez and O'Connell are developmental players.

 

[cstjohn17]

There is NO WAY we keep 4 QBs, and it's extremely likely we will keep 5 RBs. Which of these - Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans, Jordan - do you see cut? I see NONE of them cut. Closest would be Heath Evans, and he's beloved by the staff and does a ton of those "little" things.

I like all the RBs, not sure how all five stay on the roster... Ties into this was the QB question. What if the Pats went with 2 QBs? They plan to at least one of them anyway, the other O'Connell or Guit. could join the practice squad.

 

[spacecrime]

I like all the RBs, not sure how all five stay on the roster... Ties into this was the QB question. What if the Pats went with 2 QBs? They plan to at least one of them anyway, the other O'Connell or Guit. could join the practice squad.

Not O'Connell. You don't think one of 31 teams will claim a third round pick when we cut him?

But I agree with you in sentiment. My guess is Gutierrez to practice squad or IR. Right now Cassell is the best backup we have.

 

[cstjohn17]

Not O'Connell. You don't think one of 31 teams will claim a third round pick when we cut him?

But I agree with you in sentiment. My guess is Gutierrez to practice squad or IR. Right now Cassell is the best backup we have.

He would likely be claimed, but is not as easy as it appears. I team would be hesitant to put a rookie QB on their 53 man roster without the benefit of their training camp. The QB (O'Connell) wouldn't know a single play and would take a roster spot.

Just throwing it out there, these last few roster spots are going to be interesting.

 

[Rob0729]

I like all the RBs, not sure how all five stay on the roster... Ties into this was the QB question. What if the Pats went with 2 QBs? They plan to at least one of them anyway, the other O'Connell or Guit. could join the practice squad.

I don't know if either O'Connell or Guitierez could pass through waivers to make the practice squad. That is why I think 4 QBs isn't out of the question. If Guitierez is showing development but not ready to be a #2 QB, the Pats have a dilema. Do they cut Cassel and hope for the best? Do they cut Guitierez and just chock it up to a numbers game and hope for the best that he passes through waivers? Do they cut O'Connell and hope for the best that he passes through waivers and risk wasting a 4th round pick?

I just think based on what Guitierez did last year, at least one or two teams would take a shot at him being their third QB. I think also that the Pats used such a high pick on O'Connell and the fact that people feel he can be a starter with some technique work; that multiple teams would jump at him to be their #3 QB. That makes the QB position a tough decision this year.

 

[patsox23]

sammy morris cut? He's healthy now and was GREAT inlimited duty last year, a guy BB has pursued for YEARS. Nope.

 

[Rob0729]

Not O'Connell. You don't think one of 31 teams will claim a third round pick when we cut him?

But I agree with you in sentiment. My guess is Gutierrez to practice squad or IR. Right now Cassell is the best backup we have.

I don't see Guitierez making it through waivers either. Eventhough he had limited exposure last year, he did show something in the preseason that might get a few teams jumping over him for a #3 QB. Granted the interest would be less than O'Connell. They may decide that Guitierez is the player they can afford to lose of the three though and take the risk.

 

[cstjohn17]

I don't know if either O'Connell or Guitierez could pass through waivers to make the practice squad. That is why I think 4 QBs isn't out of the question. If Guitierez is showing development but not ready to be a #2 QB, the Pats have a dilema. Do they cut Cassel and hope for the best? Do they cut Guitierez and just chock it up to a numbers game and hope for the best that he passes through waivers? Do they cut O'Connell and hope for the best that he passes through waivers and risk wasting a 4th round pick?

I just think based on what Guitierez did last year, at least one or two teams would take a shot at him being their third QB. I think also that the Pats used such a high pick on O'Connell and the fact that people feel he can be a starter with some technique work; that multiple teams would jump at him to be their #3 QB. That makes the QB position a tough decision this year.

I think it is impossible to consider that the Patriots carry 4 QBs, but with my track record I have virtually guaranteed it will happen just by saying it won't.

The other GMs have a scouting report on all the players in the NFL, I would be pretty surprised if a team signed Guitierez to their 53 man roster. An undrafted player from Idaho State, no knowledge of their system. I wouldn't want to be the scout to make that recommendation.

 

[mgteich]

The developmental QB is the easiest player to add to roster. Absolutely nothing is expected of him, except carrying the clipboard, and he gets to suit up without counting against the active roster.

I think Gutierrez is competing with Cassell for the backup spot. Otherwise, he will be be cut, and hopefully added to the Practice Squad. If not, no big loss.

He would likely be claimed, but is not as easy as it appears. I team would be hesitant to put a rookie QB on their 53 man roster without the benefit of their training camp. The QB (O'Connell) wouldn't know a single play and would take a roster spot.

Just throwing it out there, these last few roster spots are going to be interesting.

 

[Rob0729]

sammy morris cut? He's healthy now and was GREAT inlimited duty last year, a guy BB has pursued for YEARS. Nope.

If Belichick can cut guys like Milloy, McGinest, and Colvin (all guys he loved as much or more than Morris); it is silly to say that there is no chance that he would cut Morris. Morris is 31 years old and coming off a major injury with a sizable cap hit if he ends up being the #4 RB. I see those are major reasons why Belichick could cut Morris.

Anyone who has been watching this team during the Belichick era should know that Belichick feelings for an individual player doesn't come before the needs of the entire team. The only case where he did that was with Troy Brown and I bet if he didn't have a roster spot after he came of the PUP for him, he would have cut him too. If the Pats have the cap room and don't need the roster spot somewhere else, he may keep Morris if he drops below Jordan on the depth chart. But if he needs the cap space or the roster position, he would cut Morris in a blink an eye without even thinking about it.

 

[Rob0729]

I think it is impossible to consider that the Patriots carry 4 QBs, but with my track record I have virtually guaranteed it will happen just by saying it won't.

The other GMs have a scouting report on all the players in the NFL, I would be pretty surprised if a team signed Guitierez to their 53 man roster. An undrafted player from Idaho State, no knowledge of their system. I wouldn't want to be the scout to make that recommendation.

I have a similiar track record as you of making these predictions. So what does that mean? They'll carry 2 QBs or 5 QBs?

I think someone will take Guitierez just because the Pats took him. The Pats are one of those teams that virtually every player cut by them gets someone interested in them. Besides, Guitierez was one of those trendy post-draft undrafted free agent "finds" labelled by the media. People praised the Pats for picking him up and compared him to other undrafted finds like Jake Delhomme. Again, I could be wrong again.

 

[Deus Irae]

The developmental QB is the easiest player to add to roster. Absolutely nothing is expected of him, except carrying the clipboard, and he gets to suit up without counting against the active roster.

I think Gutierrez is competing with Cassell for the backup spot. Otherwise, he will be be cut, and hopefully added to the Practice Squad. If not, no big loss.

I'm on this train. I expect Gutierrez to be on the outside looking in, along with Eckel. I just don't see this team carrying 2 developmental quarterbacks, and Eckel's special teams role looks as if it has plenty of non running back options to fill it.

 

[Dragda]

I think Evans, Eckel, and even Morris are replaceable. Faulk and Maroney are the most likely to stick. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Evans and Eckel cut. If fourth down is truly as important as any other down, maybe Morris and Eckel of Faulk and Eckel are cut in favor of Evans.

Could we keep five? Oh, yes. These are good backs. This is a very strong group. We may keep an extra back at the expense of the TE position.

 

[lamafist]

It's senseless to argue about the theoretical value of "a 5th RB" vs. "a 9th DB" vs. "a 4th QB." Belichick isn't making decisions based on abstractions, he's making his decision based on the potential contributions of the actual guys he's been watching practice during camp.

The question of whether the Patriots have ever carried 5 RBs before is irrelevant because the Patriots have never had five backs this talented with this diverse an array of skills.

While questions at CB and LB might tempt one to have more backups available at those positions, it's pointless if those backups aren't worth throwing out on the field. You can't predict what's going to happen during the year and which positions will become depleted and require more backups, so you're best off keeping the guys you think are most capable of contributing when called upon.

 

[cstjohn17]

It's senseless to argue about the theoretical value of "a 5th RB" vs. "a 9th DB" vs. "a 4th QB." Belichick isn't making decisions based on abstractions, he's making his decision based on the potential contributions of the actual guys he's been watching practice during camp.

The question of whether the Patriots have ever carried 5 RBs before is irrelevant because the Patriots have never had five backs this talented with this diverse an array of skills.

While questions at CB and LB might tempt one to have more backups available at those positions, it's pointless if those backups aren't worth throwing out on the field. You can't predict what's going to happen during the year and which positions will become depleted and require more backups, so you're best off keeping the guys you think are most capable of contributing when called upon.

Obviously you haven't participated in many of these forums. Reality is only one of the variables in the equation, the others are boredom and obsession. Welcome to the dark side, within 1-2 weeks you will become consumed by the pointless banter,

 

[BPF]

You think Guyton is a definite over Alexander?

Yes for these reasons: The kid has good size for his position, is solidly built and is a very, very good athlete with range and closing speed. He is a big hitter as well. He is versatile lining up both on the weak and strong side in college. He has good football insticts and is an excellent special teams player. Most importantly he has someting Alexander doesn't have, upside. From the current crop of LB's I do like his chances, especially vs Alexander, whom I've always thought as nothing more than an avg to slightly above avg special teams player.