Worst defense in the league...how is this possible?

[Ring 6]

Agreed. Although I do believe that Chung,Haynesworth and Dowling would of been enough to get us over the top today. But to what end? I don't know what to make of this defense even when fully healthy.

I'm not sure if we could just move back to a 34 overnight. We bring in Anderson and Carter to run some different things and now do we just bench them and give the majority of snaps to Wilfork,Ellis and Haynesworth? I was excited for the defensive change of alignment but must admit they stop the run a lot better and McCourty is able to get off the man coverage and keep the defender in front of him while in a 34 or cover zone. Although this doesn't solve our pass rush or the gaping belly in the midddle of the field it is better than what we have at this point. Maybe I'm just jumping ship too early and they just need more time and health to get this new look going?

34 or 43 is really irrelevant, its the techniques we play, not the alignment.
1 gap run defense and heavy man to man coverage have been total failures.
We went a decade of being a top 3 defense playing 2 gap and a lot zone and making teams earn every yard.
We are now getting gashed by big plays, and not making big plays. How many time have our 1 gap run techniques produced a tackle for loss? How many times have we seen RBs shoot through the defense and be 5 to 10 yard downfield before a hand being laid on them? We are getting the risk not the reward. How many times has our tight man to man coverage produced a coverage sack? How many times have WRs been wide open (and deep) because the pass rush couldn't get there? Again, we get the risk without the reward.
Today, starting from a 7 point lead the Bills got the ball twice.
They snapped it 7 times (5 plays and 2 penalties) and moved 174 yards in 2:33 to win the game. If that isn't the iron clad case that the scheme we are playing sucks, at least for the players we have playing it, what could be?
Aside from a 1 yard TD, we allowed gains of 12,28,33 and 48 and penalties of 35 and 15. 7 plays and the best was a 12 yard gain, the second best a 15 yard personal foul.
Think about that. On the last 2 Bills drives, the second best play we made was a 15 yard personal foul. That is simply pathetic.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Offense only know to Pass and that too only to 3 players - Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez. Attempt 45+ passes a game as they have and eventually INT's will catchup with you.

Actually Branch has 15 catches for 222 yards so there is 4 players. Despite his no catches today you are wrong again. Give it up.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Dowling
Haynesworth
Ellis
Carter
Anderson

Looks like we used a draft pick, #33 on defense and spent money on almost an entire DL.

Yes, you are correct. As usual, we tried to spend 75 cents on the dollar and get by with other teams' trash and "value" picks.

The Jets didn't want Ellis back. If they wanted him back that badly, they'd have offered him more than the vet minimum. obviously, they felt he would not be a huge part of their defense going forward.

We picked up Carter and Haynesworth from Washington, both of whom were on the outs with Shanahan and did not want to be with the Redskins anymore. A 32 year old pass rusher who has probably seen his better days pass him by and a lard of a defensive tackle who has already set out an achieved his only goal in football: make massive amounts of money.

We also picked up Dowling, a pick that I actually liked, but did so with the premise of spending 75 cents on the dollar. Just like with Tate instead of Harvin in 09.

Rather than going UP in the draft and getting Marcell Dareus or Nick Fairley or JJ Watt or signing a guy like Cullen Jenkins, we settled for Shaun Ellis and Albert Haynesworth -- hoping to take other teams' castoffs and turn them into our stars. Yep, that's really an adequate way to replace Seymour.

Rather than trading UP for Von Miller or Robert Quinn or signing a guy like Ray Edwards, we gout out and settle for a 32 year old pass rusher in Andre Carter whose better days are behind him. Same thing we did when we got Burgess instead of signing a guy like Peppers.

Rather than trading UP for an elite shutdown CB like Patrick Peterson or going out and signing a guy like Nnamdi Asomugha, we do what we did in 2009. Rather than moving up a few spots to take Harvin, we sit back and say we'll take a guy with a torn knee in the 3rd round (Tate) because the value is better. Same thing this year. Rather than go up and get the elite CB, we sit back and say we'll take the injury prone and less talented Dowling at #33 because it's better "value."

So yes, while the Patriots did invest in "attempting" to improve this defense, they did so as they always do -- trying to outsmart everyone with their value signings/drafting and pay 75 cents on the dollar. It's worked out so well with guys like Galloway, Springs, Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris, Chris Baker, Delthea O'Neal, Fernando Bryant, Derrick Burgess, Darius Butler, Ron Brace, Crable, Wheatley, etc.

Go out and get some real damn talent at a higher cost. I'd much rather spend a high first round pick and get a guy like Peterson who I know can be a shutdown corner in the coming years than continually piss away assets on bums like Butler and Wheatley, only to find out 2-3 years later that they have no future with this team.

 

[Patriot Missile]

34 or 43 is really irrelevant, its the techniques we play, not the alignment.
1 gap run defense and heavy man to man coverage have been total failures.
We went a decade of being a top 3 defense playing 2 gap and a lot zone and making teams earn every yard.
We are now getting gashed by big plays, and not making big plays. How many time have our 1 gap run techniques produced a tackle for loss? How many times have we seen RBs shoot through the defense and be 5 to 10 yard downfield before a hand being laid on them? We are getting the risk not the reward. How many times has our tight man to man coverage produced a coverage sack? How many times have WRs been wide open (and deep) because the pass rush couldn't get there? Again, we get the risk without the reward.
Today, starting from a 7 point lead the Bills got the ball twice.
They snapped it 7 times (5 plays and 2 penalties) and moved 174 yards in 2:33 to win the game. If that isn't the iron clad case that the scheme we are playing sucks, at least for the players we have playing it, what could be?
Aside from a 1 yard TD, we allowed gains of 12,28,33 and 48 and penalties of 35 and 15. 7 plays and the best was a 12 yard gain, the second best a 15 yard personal foul.
Think about that. On the last 2 Bills drives, the second best play we made was a 15 yard personal foul. That is simply pathetic.

Well as much as I wanted a change from the last few years this doesn't seem to be working out. It's very evident McCourty can't play man coverage yet and we still can't pressure the QB. At this point I'll take stuffing the run and coverage sacks over the bs we've witnessed so far.

Fast fact: In our old defense the last 5 games of the regular season combined in 2010 the Patriots gave up a total of 45 points.

Fast Fact: In our "new improved defense we have given up 79 in just 3 games.

 

[Ring 6]

Well as much as I wanted a change from the last few years this doesn't seem to be working out. It's very evident McCourty can't play man coverage yet and we still can't pressure the QB. At this point I'll take stuffing the run and coverage sacks over the bs we've witnessed so far.

Fast fact: In our old defense the last 5 games of the regular season combined in 2010 the Patriots gave up a total of 45 points.

Fast Fact: In our "new improved defense we have given up 79 in just 3 games.

I don't remember the exact numbers but after week 3 or 4 last year our D was 3rd or 4th in the NFL in points allowed. I'm going to look it up again.

 

[Sciz]

Third in the league over the last 8 games. And I think over the last 6 or something, they were #1.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't remember the exact numbers but after week 3 or 4 last year our D was 3rd or 4th in the NFL in points allowed. I'm going to look it up again.

From game 4 through the end of the season we allowed the 4th fewest points in the NFL. We were only 2 points being #3, and by the way allowed 26 fewer points than the 'vaunted' Jets defense over the last 13 games of the season.

 

[Ring 6]

Third in the league over the last 8 games. And I think over the last 6 or something, they were #1.

Yeah, but I think its more telling that if you start in week 4, we were 4th. Thats pretty close to a full season. Especially when 2 of the first 3 games we gave up garbage time points with big leads.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, you are correct. As usual, we tried to spend 75 cents on the dollar and get by with other teams' trash and "value" picks.

The Jets didn't want Ellis back. If they wanted him back that badly, they'd have offered him more than the vet minimum. obviously, they felt he would not be a huge part of their defense going forward.

We picked up Carter and Haynesworth from Washington, both of whom were on the outs with Shanahan and did not want to be with the Redskins anymore. A 32 year old pass rusher who has probably seen his better days pass him by and a lard of a defensive tackle who has already set out an achieved his only goal in football: make massive amounts of money.

We also picked up Dowling, a pick that I actually liked, but did so with the premise of spending 75 cents on the dollar. Just like with Tate instead of Harvin in 09.

Rather than going UP in the draft and getting Marcell Dareus or Nick Fairley or JJ Watt or signing a guy like Cullen Jenkins, we settled for Shaun Ellis and Albert Haynesworth -- hoping to take other teams' castoffs and turn them into our stars. Yep, that's really an adequate way to replace Seymour.

Rather than trading UP for Von Miller or Robert Quinn or signing a guy like Ray Edwards, we gout out and settle for a 32 year old pass rusher in Andre Carter whose better days are behind him. Same thing we did when we got Burgess instead of signing a guy like Peppers.

Rather than trading UP for an elite shutdown CB like Patrick Peterson or going out and signing a guy like Nnamdi Asomugha, we do what we did in 2009. Rather than moving up a few spots to take Harvin, we sit back and say we'll take a guy with a torn knee in the 3rd round (Tate) because the value is better. Same thing this year. Rather than go up and get the elite CB, we sit back and say we'll take the injury prone and less talented Dowling at #33 because it's better "value."

So yes, while the Patriots did invest in "attempting" to improve this defense, they did so as they always do -- trying to outsmart everyone with their value signings/drafting and pay 75 cents on the dollar. It's worked out so well with guys like Galloway, Springs, Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris, Chris Baker, Delthea O'Neal, Fernando Bryant, Derrick Burgess, Darius Butler, Ron Brace, Crable, Wheatley, etc.

Go out and get some real damn talent at a higher cost. I'd much rather spend a high first round pick and get a guy like Peterson who I know can be a shutdown corner in the coming years than continually piss away assets on bums like Butler and Wheatley, only to find out 2-3 years later that they have no future with this team.

Well, I am very happy you aren't making any decisions in Foxboro, but hey, how did your fantasy football team do today?

 

[mgteich]

So, perhaps we could do the same thing agains if we only had a safety.

Seriously, our front seven is as good as last year. Our corners are considerably better. Chung is as good as last year. And we have Brown back. He was #4 replacing Page. I guess he's OK in that role, and Chung's backup.
=======================
It all gets back to Barrett and Ihedigbo contributing as much as the players they replaced on the roster: Meriweather and James Sanders. Obviously Brown could move up to be as good as one. Then Barrett and Ihedigbo would need to be as good as the other and Brown last year.

From game 4 through the end of the season we allowed the 4th fewest points in the NFL. We were only 2 points being #3, and by the way allowed 26 fewer points than the 'vaunted' Jets defense over the last 13 games of the season.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Yeah, but I think its more telling that if you start in week 4, we were 4th. Thats pretty close to a full season. Especially when 2 of the first 3 games we gave up garbage time points with big leads.

last i checked all stats count. There is no garbage time, Game is 60 minutes. we saw up 21-0 what kind of garbage time stats Buffalo put up today

Right now Pats are

Total Defense #31
Passing Defense #31
Rushing Defense #11 (why run when you can pass on this D)
3rd down conversion allowed #25

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

last i checked all stats count. There is no garbage time, Game is 60 minutes. we saw up 21-0 what kind of garbage time stats Buffalo put up today

Right now Pats are

Total Defense #31
Passing Defense #31
Rushing Defense #11 (why run when you can pass on this D)
3rd down conversion allowed #25

Thank you for another great post. Amazing work

 

[Ring 6]

So, perhaps we could do the same thing agains if we only had a safety.

Seriously, our front seven is as good as last year. Our corners are considerably better. Chung is as good as last year. And we have Brown back. He was #4 replacing Page. I guess he's OK in that role, and Chung's backup.

How is our front 7 better? On paper?
Same with the corners. They aren't playing better thats for sure.
I don't see what good play we got from Meriwhether and Sanders that is all of a sudden missing. I'm not saying Barrett and Brown are world beaters, but the bar wasn't set very high.
=======================

It all gets back to Barrett and Ihedigbo contributing as much as the players they replaced on the roster: Meriweather and James Sanders. Obviously Brown could move up to be as good as one. Then Barrett and Ihedigbo would need to be as good as the other and Brown last year.

I don't think thats asking too much by mid to late season.

 

[Ring 6]

last i checked all stats count. There is no garbage time, Game is 60 minutes. we saw up 21-0 what kind of garbage time stats Buffalo put up today

Right now Pats are

Total Defense #31
Passing Defense #31
Rushing Defense #11 (why run when you can pass on this D)
3rd down conversion allowed #25

When you are ahead 3 to 4 scores in the 4th quarter and in prevent defense the stats are worthless.
21-0 is not garbage time.
Perhaps they all count the same for your fantasy football team, but if we are judging the play of a defense I could care less what stats are accumulated after the game is over.

Not sure why you are posting this seasons stats in response to last seasons defense

 

[patsfan-1982]

#1 the pats Don't have any Good DE's on the roster 3-4 or 4-3 so you can't play man covrage with out a pass rush so i can't for the life of me understand why the pats are trying to do so for the last 3 weeks,

#2 the pats today had the worst safeties in the NFL starting for them they can't cover play the run or tackle very Good... will this defense get better yes but they will still only be midle of the pack at best and if Brady keeps averageing 400 yerds per game that will get them the #1 seed in the playoffs easy, Bottom line is it's one game on the road vs a Bills team that looks pretty good this year this one just hurts more because they were up 21-0 and then the wheels fell off

 

[Daigle]

Wow, this got to be the most positive Albert posts all time high. I did hear three post actually considering him a starter and a contributer.

Havent watched the game yet so cant comment any further. Was watching the Giants Eagleas game when they spoiled the score so thats why I am here.

Just by seeing the others it seems the problem is what it has been the other games. Our so called pass rushers not winning their battles one on one and how we always allow too many yards.

Maybe we drafted too many old guys who arent fast and hungry any more ?

 

[DonBlackmon55]

When you are ahead 3 to 4 scores in the 4th quarter and in prevent defense the stats are worthless.
21-0 is not garbage time.
Perhaps they all count the same for your fantasy football team, but if we are judging the play of a defense I could care less what stats are accumulated after the game is over.

Not sure why you are posting this seasons stats in response to last seasons defense

Whose job is it to play prevent defense ? if BB then he is the biggest dunce since Jerry glanville he should have learnt his lesson from AFCC vs Colts after being up 21-0. Show me where on any stat board keeps "garbage time" stats separately.

So, help me understand when exactly did garbage time start in the Miami game. what like in 3Q with 10:32 left on the clock. I just want to make sure i keep the regular stats separate .....and here we have Tom Brady regular stats until 3Q 10:32, and then Tom Brady stats in "garbage time" will not be counted. You know the "garbage time" that is not separately listed but accounted for in the mindless world of cherry picking stat keeping clowns.

Posting stats to make a point. your incoherent rambling about Game 4 onwards stats vs game 1-3 not withstanding is baseless. How about with that in mind we just erase Games 1-3 of 2010 season.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

#1 the pats Don't have any Good DE's on the roster 3-4 or 4-3 so you can't play man covrage with out a pass rush so i can't for the life of me understand why the pats are trying to do so for the last 3 weeks,

#2 the pats today had the worst safeties in the NFL starting for them they can't cover play the run or tackle very Good... will this defense get better yes but they will still only be midle of the pack at best and if Brady keeps averageing 400 yerds per game that will get them the #1 seed in the playoffs easy, Bottom line is it's one game on the road vs a Bills team that looks pretty good this year this one just hurts more because they were up 21-0 and then the wheels fell off

Coach made decision on his personnel. He had opportunity to draft, trade, or add via FA. He chose to cut his 2 starting "ahem pro bowl" safety as well his backup safety.

You reap what you sow.....

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

#1 the pats Don't have any Good DE's on the roster 3-4 or 4-3 so you can't play man covrage with out a pass rush so i can't for the life of me understand why the pats are trying to do so for the last 3 weeks,

#2 the pats today had the worst safeties in the NFL starting for them they can't cover play the run or tackle very Good... will this defense get better yes but they will still only be midle of the pack at best and if Brady keeps averageing 400 yerds per game that will get them the #1 seed in the playoffs easy, Bottom line is it's one game on the road vs a Bills team that looks pretty good this year this one just hurts more because they were up 21-0 and then the wheels fell off

Come on,you can't expect Brady to carry the team all year or the same fate will be dealt as it has been the past 2 years....one and done.

Brady will not continue to average 400 YPG...that average is unheard of and will drop when the winter arrives.....at least it should.

It's time to be better on offense by using the running game and less on Brady to try and win,quicken the game up and pound the ball...we have capable runners to do this.

This team is a near perfect replica of the mid decade Colts,with the exception that at least the Colts had a pass rush,but still those same Colts ended up watching the SB on TV...except the miracle 06 season.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Come on,you can't expect Brady to carry the team all year or the same fate will be dealt as it has been the past 2 years....one and done.

Brady will not continue to average 400 YPG...that average is unheard of and will drop when the winter arrives.....at least it should.

It's time to be better on offense by using the running game and less on Brady to try and win,quicken the game up and pound the ball...we have capable runners to do this.

This team is a near perfect replica of the mid decade Colts,with the exception that at least the Colts had a pass rush,but still those same Colts ended up watching the SB on TV...except the miracle 06 season.

i agree but we all know this team is not going to man up and run the ball 30+ times a game they run no huddle with a 3 TD lead and with this defense they realy cant just run the ball because they cant win games 21 to 17