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World Population of Muslims Doubling

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by reflexblue, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. reflexblue

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    There coming Harry, watch out!

    World Muslim population doubling, report projects – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

    Twenty years ago, the world had about 1.1 billion Muslims. Twenty years from now, it will have about twice as many - and they'll represent more than a quarter of all people on earth, according to a new study released Thursday.

    That's a rise from less than 20 percent in 1990.

    Pakistan will overtake Indonesia as home of the largest number of Muslims, as its population pushes over 256 million, the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life projects.

    The number of Muslims in the United States will more than double, to 6.2 million, it anticipates.

    Afghanistan's population will nearly double, to about 50.5 million, making it home to the ninth largest Muslim population in the world.
  2. Harry Boy

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    :singing::singing:

    If they ever get a little Power in the USA watch what they do to the liberals, Whoopi & Joy better head for the hills, I would also advise Rosie O'Donnell & Barney Frank to get their asses out of the country as fast as they can.
  3. Harry Boy

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    LOON
    The liberals love affair with Islam goes on, this is the "Pie Face" spouting her Left Wing Crap (doesn't this make you feel all gooey and nice, tee hee)

    News:
    Katie Couric thinks she has part of the solution to bigotry in America: a Muslim version of "The Cosby Show."

    The CBS News anchor made the suggestion on her web show while discussing the biggest news stories of 2010, including the mosque near Ground Zero and the "seething hatred" that has grown against Muslims in America.

    Katie Couric, CBS anchor, suggests America needs a Muslim version of 'The Cosby Show'
  4. The Brandon Five

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    This, coupled with birth rates below replacement in many non-Muslim populations should make for an interesting world.

    The future belongs to those who show up for it. For those calling for self-extinction in the name of reducing population growth in order to "save the planet": into whose hands are you delivering stewardship of the planet? Your ideas will die with you.
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    Huh. It is unfortunate that the Jewish people, of whom there may be 30 million worldwide, have done such a poor job of such a simple task as replicating DNA, that our ability to act in and on our world has disappeared. :rolleyes:

    Qualilty, my boy, not quantity.

    As to the fear that there will one day be more Muslims than Christians, a sort of sub-text of this "look out for all the Muslims!" thread, both groups have historically been equally capable of intolerable behavior, despite some momentary snap-shot some are intent on using the characterize the broad groups.

    I'd rather there be two billion Moslem moderates than two billion secular or Christian extremists, and vice versa. That's the issue, not what they mumble and which way they face when they're mumbling.

    So, 20% will grow to 25%, and...?

    PFnV
  6. The Brandon Five

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    Ok. Let me know how it works out if they halve their population every generation.
  7. Harry Boy

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    If they grow in numbers will they help in getting rid of the Mad Dog Head Hunters among them (Terrorists)

    :confused:
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    I think you mean "double their population."

    From the fact that their proportionate population will rise from 20% to 25%, the obvious conclusion is that non-Moslem populations are also growing at close to the same pace.

    I have no idea what the equivalent numbers would be for Hindus, but I would imagine they would be high, given the absence in India of a China-like control on population growth. Once again, I am anything but worried. Confessional-group bean-counting partakes way too much of "monolith" thinking. The Moslems I know and have known have no particularly dangerous plans, and none vociferously protested the exposed faces of women, whether Moslem or non-Moslem.

    Come on dude, you know 90% of Muslims behave pretty much like 90% of Christians, and you know the 10% of Christian crazies can cause you issues just like the 10% of Moslems who are nuts.

    As a Jew I look at the behavior of Christian Europe over a millennium, and when I hear this "oh no! Too many Moslems!" stuff, it cracks me up.

    It's more like "too many extremists," and unfortunately, they find fertile ground in any religious community.

    pFnV
  9. wistahpatsfan

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    Really? "Qualilty, my boy, not quantity."?? That sounds like some sort of superior race-ish which is strange coming from a ummm...Jew. I'll assume you were being sarcastic.

    Anyway, this whole demographic thing reminds me of this:
    YouTube - "Idiocracy" introduction - the future of human evolution

    But this may be avoided if science can eventually disprove the god-stories once and for all, or maybe some contact with aliens will do it. Once religion gets out of the way, then we can get on with the business of reducing the chasm between the classes.
  10. Harry Boy

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    Right now in the world when the bomb goes off we pretty much know who did it and it ain't the christian.

    (please not timothy mcveigh again)



    :bricks:
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    Assumption correct. Jews aren't a race in the first place, though certainly we are an ethnic group. But that's a minor nit.

    Now then, I'll assume that you're not in earnest in suggesting that Jews could not conceivably evolve a chauvinistic attitude, or that it is more inappropriate for Jews to do so than for any other group of people to do so.

    You may say that Jews have negative historical experience with that sort of thing; but your statement can also be read to mean "Well I can understand Germans thinking that about themselves. But Jews?"

    A final note: I am in fact in earnest that Jews have been able to succeed despite a small population worldwide. The idiotic "fear of losing a population race" angle here makes zero sense - less sense to me than to those whose cultural heritage is Christian or Moslem. After all, both groups will be very large, and to the extent that population confers a certain amount of sway, both will be powerful.

    I have yet to see a Protestant on Patsfans claim that they are imperilled by the far higher worldwide Catholic population (and notably higher birthrate, if memory serves.) I don't see anybody up in arms over Hindu birthrates.

    PFnV
  12. wistahpatsfan

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    Oh yeah? How about the Irish?! Now that's a small ethnicity that was almost killed off by the Saxon scum that nearly starved them to death, but fortunately believed in having as many kids possible once they got to America and Australia (there's that link to immigration to wide-open spaces we were talking about in the Bachman thread...nice, huh?). They do pretty well.

    And of course I believe Jews can develop a chauvinistic attitude. Jeeziz! They call themselves the Chosen People fakrissakes! I give your tribe one thing (among many other props)...you definitely have no self-esteem issue considering the shyte you've been drug through. If you did you'd have overcompensation issues like getting drunk a lot and getting into fistfights, taking dangerous jobs like firefighting, construction, and police work and ultimately wading into the vile world of politics to get attention.

    Oh, and don't forget the commies in China. Thank Santa they have that enforced family planning or we'd all be over-run by Buddists and athiests!

    THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD!
  13. IcyPatriot

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    I could feign being a Muslim as long as nobody knows I don't do the prayer thing.
  14. The Brandon Five

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    I meant the Jews.

    Right, so there is no difference between Christians and Muslims, which is why there are equal numbers of Jews in "Christian" and "Muslim" countries, right?
  15. Real World

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    That's an excellent point. As one group fails to grow in size, the other grows exponentially. The mathematical course suggests that at some point, the group growing at the higher rate, will likely be the dominant figure in the world. Obviously it will be a long time till that happens, if it happens at all, but it is a good point none the less.
  16. DarrylS

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    A convenient distraction that muddles the thought process of the right.. how about Eric Rudolph?? Gerald Loughner?? The Hutaree Movement??
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    There are two runaway leaders in the world in Jewish population: the U.S. and Israel. The U.S. is a secular country by law and custom, despite some nasty trends to the contrary and despite the shrill cries of a sizable minority on the theocratic right. Israel, also by and large a secular society, has neither a Muslim nor Christian identity, but a Jewish one.

    The reason there is an Israel is that Christian Europe made it clear over centuries that they have no use for the Jewish people. The establishment of Israel coincided with pan-Arab sentiment, occasioning migration from neighboring Arab states (the so-called "Second Aliyah," the first being the immigration of the remnants of European Jewry.)

    It's comical to me that Christians (and pro-Christian, otherwise "secular" people in the West, who nonetheless take sides in this faux "holy war,") believe that Jews must all be rooting for their new Crusade. (After all, all the rest of the Crusades worked out so well for us, right?)

    Taking 2011 as a snapshot of history, you can look around and say "oh yes, Christian nations are so much less anti-semitic (by and large) than Muslim nations," using those confessional-group tags to indicate the preponderance of the religions in nations' populations, rather than the necessity of a theocracy.

    What you cannot do is make a valid case that this is inherent to the fact of Muslim or Christian ideology, given historical precedent.

    Far more Jews over the centuries have died at the hands of Christians, in the name of Christianity, than at the hands of Muslims. You can throw in Arab Nationalism etc., and compare with what European Christians did in the name of Aryan national socialism, and the comparison gets worse.

    If you are not aware of Christian theological anti-semitism, because of the obscurring grotesquerie of the Holocaust, do some reading.

    We've learned that either population is capable of anti-semitic turns, in whatever guise, and that it makes very little sense to think one or the other should be held up as trustworthy to "look after" a religious minority in their midsts.

    Indeed, the principle is best illustrated by the nations where Jews did decide to settle -- one secular by constitution (the U.S.), and the other strongly secular, where the state is aligned with Judaism rather than Christianity or Islam (much to the chagrin of those who espouse leftist anti-zionism, because only Jews should not establish such a state, as opposed to every other world religion.)

    PFnV
  18. The Brandon Five

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    Right, the U.S. is more secular than Europe. Whatever gets you through the night.
  19. The Brandon Five

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    Right and we know that the Holocaust was driven by the teachings of Jesus. Brilliant.

    Who is rooting for a new Crusades?

    I think the modern environment is a little more relevant when discussing what is going to happen in the next twenty-five years.


    Being a Christian, I am unaware of anti-semitism in any church I have ever been in or in any sermon, lesson or discussion. If you want me to go hunting for it, I think that belies how widespread that is.

    We'll see how that works out when the voting public in some of those "secular" countries represent a fervently religious population with very different values.

    It's fine if you think that there will be no ill effects from such changes, I am not making any argument about any specific impact. To suggest that there will be no effect whatsoever is just silly.
  20. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Up until 1960 there was a prayer said in the Catholic Church on Good Friday of Holy Week which went like this:

    Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Let us pray. Let us kneel. [pause for silent prayer] Arise. Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.

    The 2008 prayer now reads:

    Let us also pray for the Jews: That our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. (Let us pray. Kneel. Rise.) Almighty and eternal God, who want that all men be saved and come to the recognition of the truth, propitiously grant that even as the fullness of the peoples enters Thy Church, all Israel be saved. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.

    Which still insists that The Jews are wrong and The Christians are right in their respective beliefs.

    In 2005, Pope Benedict said that the church remained committed to β€œthe need to overcome past prejudices, misunderstandings, indifference and the language of contempt and hostility [and to continue] the Jewish-Christian dialogue...."

    which certainly admits that there has been a long and fairly recent history of anti-semitism in The Catholic Church.

    Good Friday Prayer for the Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sarah Palin, surely a spokeperson for Evangelical Christians, attends a church which has sponsored sermons by the founder of "Jews for Jesus," David Brickner, where he stated that the killing of Jews in Israel by Palestinians was a "judgement from God," brought about by the Jews failure to recognize Jesus as the one true Saviour.

    "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment β€” you can't miss it."

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

    Billy Graham has made anti-Semitic remarks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  21. Harry Boy

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    How Many Of These Things Have Snuck In That We Don't Know About.

    Obama could make us forget the Birth Certificate if he'd Close The Border and use The Military to keep it closed. What other country allows sh!t like this to go on.

    The next Muslim attack on The USA will be from the Illegal Border Crossers, you can bet on it.

    Also it's not only Obama, Bush, Kennedy and old man McCain are in on it too along with big business, they are all in bed with each other, Women and Children will die because of it, they will be blown to kingdom come by savage suicide bombers that cross the border in the night like rats in a cellar, scum.


    Controversial Muslim cleric caught being smuggled into U.S. over Mexico border | Mail Online





    :bricks:
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  22. The Brandon Five

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    Right, so disagreeing with Jews about whether Jesus was the Messiah is anti-semitism. If I go to a synagogue, will I hear lots of praises for the correctness of Christian or Muslim beliefs? It is surreal to hear that you think it is unacceptable for Christians to think they are right and others wrong given that you generally seem to think you are right and that others on here are wrong.

    What is the theological basis for that anti-semitism?

    Thanks! Saves me the trouble of picking my own spokesperson. I'd stick with Jesus, but you must know something I don't.

    That's really a stupid thing to say, but I don't see it as anti-semitic. The idea that it is offensive for a group to try to convert another group because they believe they are in danger of eternal damnation is kind of interesting coming from someone who spends an awful lot of time trying to convince people they are wrong about matters of a more temporal nature.

    A private conversation between Billy Graham and Richard Nixon is really not a "sermon". Certainly not one anyone else would have heard.

    Given your opposition to "Jews for Jesus", I would think you would give him credit for the last sentence below.

    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  23. reflexblue

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  24. Harry Boy

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    We Are......
  25. wistahpatsfan

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    Nice Readers Digest version of this thread:rocker:
  26. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Jews have never been, either historically and currently, very big on proselytizing. Neither have Catholics, for that matter. Evengalical Christians, however, are.

    For that matter, Orthodox Judaism does not only NOT seek converts, it actually discourages them.

    They waste little time either praising or condemning other religions.

    Sikhs will freely share their faith with others - offending other religions is against the tenets of Sikhism. They do not seek converts nor do they condemn members of other faiths.

    Likewise, Hindus.


    There is a New Testament theological basis for attempting to prove one religion correct and all others incorrect and for attempting to convert non-believers.

    You are correct in one way - trying to convert a Jew to Christianity may not be classic anti-semitism. It's certainly not to be confused with Naziism or something of that sort....but it is a subtle put down, don't you think? It is saying, "I am right and you are wrong and it is based upon who God loves more," implying that the Jew is not worthy of God's love for some reason.

    If I, as a Jew, told you that you would not be welcomed in God's heaven simply because you are Christian, if I told you that you were faithless, blind and doomed to hell because you did not embrace what I embraced, if I told you you were responsible for your mother's cancer or your father's brain tumor because you were Christian and it was a sign from God that your belief in Jesus Christ was wrong - you would surely regard me as Anti-Christian.

    I know that to a whole world full of people who do not believe in Jesus Christ your choice of a spokesperson would be not only ironic but senseless and stupid.

    Ah, but I don't threaten eternal damnation to those who do not agree with me, do I? Nor do I use a pulpit or a platform of any sort. I am exchanging ideas - you are exchanging ideas - neither of us is telling the other that if you do not agree with me you will burn in hell for all eternity because "God" said so. Nor do I tell you that whatever misfortune comes your way will be a direct result of your disagreeing with me.

    When it's being taped they will.

    One could argue the point that what people say in a "private conversation" is the real thing as opposed to what they say in public. People speaking in public generally censor themselves - not so much in private conversation.
  27. The Brandon Five

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    As are Muslims.

    Catholics never proselytized? That would be news to the Jesuits (and Christopher Columbus).

    I think the lack of proselytizing by the Jews might have had something to do with that whole "chosen people" paradigm.

    Because they think they are wrong? That was your original objection. Now it's proselytizing. Let me know when the goalposts have stopped moving.

    uh huh.

    Anti-Christian violence in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    Wrong.

    Right, choosing Christ as a spokesperson for Christianity makes absolutely no sense.

    I didn't realize I had the power of eternal damnation. If people don't believe in it why would they care if a Christian tells them that they are in danger of it?

    I should add that I don't "prosyletize" myself in the way that you are thinking about it. There's a saying: "preach the Gospel, and if necessary use words". It's hard enough without them. But I personally think that most Christians do not think about the Gospel the same way that I do.


    It is a tape I never heard in a church or anywhere else, which was my original point: I have never heard such things.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  28. Harry Boy

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    Catholics have always believed they are going to be the only ones in Heaven, just ask them.
  29. Nikolai

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    Is there a theological basis for anti-semitism? Strictly speaking, there is not, but there are many verses in the New Testament that are used as biblical justification for the mistreatment of Jews, of which this is the most inflammatory:

    This implies that the Jews are guilty of deicide.

    The doctrine of replacement theology has also been used in the past to justify treating the Jews in a poor manner.

    Also, the phrase "chosen people" does not mean the Jews are supposed to be "god's winners". It means the Jews were chosen to receive 613 laws, which must be obeyed under the penalty of national catastrophe, with the reward for obedience being having a special place in the world as priests.

    There's an old Orthodox saying that it was such a raw deal that G-d presented it to all the nations of the world, all of which turned it down. Only the Jews were stubborn (or foolish) enough to accept the deal.
  30. PatsFanInVa

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    The Mrs. has more experience than I do with the relatively benign prayers for the conversion of the benighted Jews. I have somewhat more personal, first-hand experience with the obnoxious habit of proselytizing.

    B5, as Nicolai says, you have a misunderstanding of the phrase "Chosen people." As Nic points out, all Jews are chosen for, in Jewish theology, is receiving the Torah. That's it.

    My original statement is all I am interested in, that it makes no sense for me, as a Jew, to be overly concerned as to whether Muslims or Christians are more numerous. I also pointed out that the size of either population is somewhat immaterial from any point of view; but it is particularly so from my own point of view, as the descendant of people who were persecuted by European Christians far more than by Muslims of any nationality.

    Christian theological anti-semitism is a well-documented historical phenomenon, and was for centuries. But I'll do some homework for you, and trust you to look more deeply into it on your own.

    The Spanish Expulsion, 1492
    This page covers the expulsion of Jews from Spain in 1492.

    Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Wiki, covering the expulsion and the repression of those Jews who had "converted" to Christianity, many under duress.

    Pogroms in the Russian Empire
    Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    YIVO | Pogroms
    Pogroms often commenced on Christmas and Easter - but that's a coincidence, I am sure. Nobody every preached anti-semitism in a church, surely. :rolleyes:

    Religious Anti-Semitism: Anti-Semitism in the Catholic Church

    By why limit Christian religious anti-Semitism to Europe? (Evidently, proselytizing isn't nearly so popular if someone else is even accused of doing it...)

    Jewish History 1640 - 1649

    Look up "theological anti-semitism" and "religious anti-semitism," or read the works of various scholars on the subject of anti-semitism.

    It's not like this point is in question, unfortunate though the point may be: There is a long and rich history of Christian theological anti-semitism. Period. It's not a point you're likely to win: Historically speaking, there is no good reason for Jews to root for Christians against Muslims in some sort of population race. Why would we?

    Now, I recite all this history knowing it's as hurtful to the descendant of the perpetrator as to the descendant of the targeted group. I don't want to dwell on it, and am glad to move on.

    I'm also well aware that the Arab-Israeli dispute has given anti-semitism all sorts of momentum among a particular stripe of Muslim extremist. However, I'm getting old. I've seen here the shocking ignorance of the phenomenon of anti-semitism whether on the left or the right, and I've seen the occasional embrace of anti-semitism among both camps, in various guises. I'm aware that far more hate crimes are perpetrated, on an absolute basis, in the secular U.S. against Jews than against any other minority.

    So, tell yourself whatever fairy-tale you want. The history of Christianity is replete with specifically theological anti-semitism. I'm not with those guys. If you convince fellow Christians that it never happened, well what can I say? They have a vested interest in believing that. But you won't convince many Jews of it.

    Again, I began saying that most Christians I know, and most Muslims I know, have no particular problem with Jews, on theological or other grounds. But to deny that extremists in either camp can make a great deal of hay with a good old-fashioned turn against Jews is just absurd.

    PFnV

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