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Workers hours cut over Obamacare

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsWSB47, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Is this the new normal? People's hours are cut and can even less afford health care premiums. What are these people supposed to do?


     
  2. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thank Obama I guess....
     
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    It's because "they" (as in our gov't) changed the definition of full-time employment. It used to be full-time workers had to work 35 hours or more per week. But Obamacare changed it to anyone working 30 hours or more has to be covered.

    So of course businesses like restaurants will cut hours to under 30 hours. I think common-sense would have told us that was going to happen.

    I can't blame businesses for trying to keep cost from increasing, can you?

    Obamacare Mandate: Anyone Who Works 30-Hour Week Is Now 'Full-Time'

    Obamacare Mandate: Anyone Who Works 30-Hour Week Is Now 'Full-Time' | CNS News


    One of the reasons unemployment has gone down is because many businesses are cutting hours and hiring more part-time employees. All that smoke & mirror stuff that gives some the impression "things are getting better"...even though they're staying status-quo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As with minimum wage increases, the short term reaction is negative, but in the longer term things return to normal. It's no surprise that there are some businesses trying to avoid paying for their employee's healthcare because they can't afford it or have other motives. In time, healthcare will the norm, and the economy will adjust accordingly. When minimum wage increases, employers hire fewer people, but in time, the increase in minimum wage yields more disposable income which benefits employers so things normalize. The same is likely to happen with Obamacare. Numerous new jobs in healthcare will be created and people will be more productive because they will get better care. This will result in the situation normalizing. But, you can always hope for the worst, which seems to be the guiding principle of much of the Republican Party today.
     
  5. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Who's hoping for the worst? I asked a sincere question. What are these people supposed to do? They're required by law to buy it. What are they going to buy it with?
     
  6. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Or.....it cuts employment and wages and becomes a continual drain on the economy.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I realize that's what much of the right wing is hoping. Perhaps if Republicans drive us off the fiscal cliff their dreams will come true. In general, though, liberal economic policies has been better for wages, employment, and the stock market than conservative economic policies.
     
  8. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    That's true....thats why most people who work for the financial sector want liberal policies rather than conservative ones. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, you're probably right, having worked in the financial sector myself for many years. That said, those at the top tend to be more Republican, but corporate Republicans are not a lot different than corporate Democrats.
     
  10. Charlotte Pats Fan

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    No Jersey Selected

    Can anyone seriously be suprised this is happening?
     
  11. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Its why they should of made the law across the board, this way business can't weasel their way out of it. Full-time, Part-time, anytime, should have to cover healthcare.

    What are they supposed to do? The right thing.....GOD WHAT A NOVEL IDEA....DOING THE RIGHT THING? CRAZY TALK!:cool:

    You know what's funny? The CEO's and other top brass at these company's have no issue cutting hours and letting people go but you ever hear of them taking a pay cut or cutting their hours. Maybe the issue isn't healthcare maybe its greed....

    Healthcare should be a right! This shouldn't even be a discussion....
     
  12. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    Healthcare being a right means more people get to mooch. This country was never about that not should it be
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My feeling is that Obamacare is a poor alternative to the far more cost effective single payer approaches, which in world class countries produces world class health care. But, Obamacare is still better than the current system. There will be some marginal employers who balk at providing their workers with healthcare, and if they can find a model using part-time workers will hold onto it. But, my guess is that the part-time worker model won't last long because it is too inefficient (losing employees to full-time jobs, dealing with caretakers who may not be able to be reliable employees, and so on). That said, asking a person who earns $25k/year to pay $1000/year for health insurance is a problem, especially considering that many of these people may not really be well informed and $80/month is a substantial amount of money for them.
     
  14. DocHoliday

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    That's where the subsidized government packages come in.

    There is no net 'loss' here. Before we had a person with no healthcare going to the ER and relying on the government to reimburse their sky high ER visits they couldn't pay.

    Now they are roughly 5-10 (my guess) week hours poorer, probably 70/week. The government is now subsidizing their new health plan they are qualified for.

    Either way the government is paying less in the long run due to this person taking care of himself properly with PCP visits instead of ER and the net effect is his extra income lost is paying for healthcare.
     
  15. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Nice speech, but back to the current dilemma. I guess this is one of the things that can happen when you pass a bill just so you can see what's in it. The reality is though these working people have had their hours cut because the employer either won't take on the expense or can't take it on. Many business's are no different than the workers. They have to operate competitively and make enough money to pay their bills too. The cost of paying for 50 or more employees insurance may force a business to have to raise their prices to cover it a then lose any competitive edge they count on remain solvent. If that happens you may have 50+ workers without any hours at all. Sure there are some greedy business that will take advantage of the hours loophole too. The employees wind up with the short end of the stick and now, under the law they will be fined if they don't buy the insurance they can't afford.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  16. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Where does the government get the money to do this? That's not meant to be rhetorical.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This is the new normal. It will only get worse too as companies will opt for the fine over offering insurance, since that will be cheaper. Don't be surprised if wages suffer as well, since companies, unlike government, actually have to operate with a bottom line. i.e. under this thing called a budget. So if companies have to pay fines and taxes, that money will either have to come from wages, or be passed on to consumers via higher costs. it is what it is.

    Remember my words on Obamacare. It's designed to fail. The program doesn't work long term. Common sense is all you need to understand that. The failure is imbedded in the policy so that a government owned and operated single payer system will be the only alternative 5-10 years from now. Then we get RMV type care with public employee union run hospitals, and goverment suits in rooms determining who gets what via rationed care. Rationing care is the only way to control costs in a system where everyone gets "free" coverage.






    Cuz that model is working out so well here in Massachusetts. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not sure what "these people" are supposed to do.....I do know what alot of Americans ARE doing in protest - and I hope that they do to Royal Farms what they've done to Red Lobster and Olive Garden and other Darden enterprises - boycott them over their "answer" to Obamacare - hitting them where it hurts, in their profit margin.

    Darden Blames Negative Obamacare Publicity For Declining Profits

    It's caused them to change their minds - at least for now....perhaps the same thing will happen with Royal Farms.


    Darden says it won't reduce full-time staff, for now - Orlando Sentinel

    Same story for Papa Johns who also said he would cut employees hours from full time to part time in order to avoid having to provide health care insurance to his employees.

    Papa John's, Applebee's And Others Pay Huge Price For Anti-Obamacare Politicking - Forbes

    They, too, backtracked after huge amounts of bad publicity and public outcry and now plan on offering health care to all employees.

    Papa John's Schnatter Says He Will Honor Obamacare And Give Health Insurance To All Employees - Forbes
     
  19. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    1.) working quite well
    2.) good, I hope it Medicare for all does happen
    3.) your healthcare was already rationed by suits - they just happened to be corporate suits. See: lifetime limits and pre-auths

    The details of the ACA are online for you to see and it does involve net cost savings through not having to pay ER prices for people ago could've had their issues under control 3 months ago with a PCP for cheap.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You're not from Massachusetts, or are simply ignorant of the numbers. Romneycare was designed under the very logic you mentioned. All those people going to the ER, using up the "free care" pool of dollars, and how mandating insurance would simply take that free care money and make their new system fiscally prudent. In the end premiums rose at twice the national average, and the programs costs have risen well beyond a billion dollars, and at last check I believe it's approaching $2 billion. Unsustainable my friend. By all means though, keep thinking gimmicks work.

    You know the rationing I speak of. It will be nothing like that which you speak of, and this is a critical distinction people need to understand. When the government takes over via single payer, their rationing will amount to arbitrary regulations that state people over age X will not recieve treatment Y. It is the only way to curb and control costs, if an everyone gets healthcare "free" model is implemented. So people over 60 won't get a hip replacement persay, or anyone over 70 won't be given a new knee. All they'll get is a cane instead. Those of us who understand math, and how the Real World operates, know that this is what will happen.
     

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