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Words and Wisdom of Jerry Falwell

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My liberal, fundie, Christian friend sent me this. I am quoting the whole thing because only two paragraphs are original and the rest is simply Falwell quotes that are part of the public record:

    By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

    Friday, May 18, 2007

    You can eulogize. You can mourn and ponder and do a lengthy retrospective, a political analysis, a sociocultural examination of a career and a legacy and a rather remarkable life. When remembering the dead, the journalistic options are legion.

    But in the case of the late Rev. Jerry Falwell, the grandfather of the fundamentalist religious right and the foremost champion of the creation of a brutally homophobic, mysogynistic Christian theocracy in America, perhaps it's better to let the man's most insidiously famous quotes speak for themselves, and let time and karma be the judge of whether Falwell left the world a better place than when he found it. (All citations are available at wikiquote.org and elsewhere.)

    "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

    "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for [the attacks of Sept. 11] because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

    "If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."

    "Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions."

    "I listen to feminists and all these radical gals -- most of them are failures. They've blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men -- that's their problem."

    "When you have a godly husband, a godly wife, children who respect their parents and who are loved by their parents, who provide for those children their physical and spiritual and material needs, lovingly, you have the ideal unit."

    "The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews."

    "I am saying pornography hurts anyone who reads it -- garbage in, garbage out."

    "I am such a strong admirer and supporter of George W. Bush that if he suggested eliminating the income tax or doubling it, I would vote yes on first blush."

    "I believe that global warming is a myth. And so, therefore, I have no conscience problems at all and I'm going to buy a Suburban next time."

    "It is God's planet -- and he's taking care of it. And I don't believe that anything we do will raise or lower the temperature one point."

    "I truly cannot imagine men with men, women with women, doing what they were not physically created to do, without abnormal stress and misbehavior."

    "It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening."

    "There's been a concerted effort to steal Christmas."

    "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

    "The First Amendment is not without limits."

    "Someone must not be afraid to say, 'moral perversion is wrong.' If we do not act now, homosexuals will 'own' America! If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way ... and our nation will pay a terrible price!"

    "If he's going to be the counterfeit of Christ, [the Antichrist] has to be Jewish. The only thing we know is he must be male and Jewish."

    "The argument that making contraceptives available to young people would prevent teen pregnancies is ridiculous. That's like offering a cookbook as a cure to people who are trying to lose weight."

    "The whole global warming thing is created to destroy America's free enterprise system and our economic stability."

    "You'll be riding along in an automobile. You'll be the driver perhaps. You're a Christian. There'll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds you and the other born-again believers in that automobile will be instantly caught away -- you will disappear, leaving behind only your clothes and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find the car suddenly somewhere crashes. ... Other cars on the highway driven by believers will suddenly be out of control and stark pandemonium will occur on ... every highway in the world where Christians are caught away from the drivers wheel." (from Falwell's pamphlet "Nuclear War and the Second Coming of Christ")

    "God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."

    "You know when I see somebody burning the flag, I'm a Baptist preacher I'm not a Mennonite, I feel it's my obligation to whip him. In the name of the Lord, of course. I feel it's my obligation to whip him, and if I can't do it then I look up some of my athletes to help me. But, as long as at 72 I can handle most of the jobs I do it myself, and I don't think it's un-spiritual. When I, when I, when I hear somebody talking about our military and ridiculing and saying terrible things about our President, I'm thinking you know just a little bit of that and I believe the Lord would forgive me if I popped him."

    "The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etcetera."

    "The National Organization for Women (NOW) is the National Order of Witches."

    "God doesn't listen to Jews."

    "Tinky Winky is gay."
     
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    What Would Jesus Do? well, precisely nothing that Jerry says here...
     
  3. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    and the purpose of this thread was what?
     
  4. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    well, see... a certain contingent of posters here insist on morphing religion into the political forum... so we "godless" liberals are just doing our part...
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gives credibility to groups like Fred Phelps "God Hates Fags.com".. I could go into a religious diatribe about my feelings but that would belong on the religious forum, trying to set a good example.
     
  6. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And well you -- and I -- should. Thus far the most outspoken "faith based" commentators among us have evidently ignored the temptation as well.

    As to the subject itself, without regard to religious (or perverted religious) origin, the late reverend certainly shows himself to be homophobic, antisemitic, and sexist, by the standards of the early twenty-first (or even mid-twentieth) century. I am not surprised the political fruits of his labors were so often exemplars of such prejudice.

    PFnV
     
  7. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    I was never a fan of Jerry Falwell. Or Pat Robertson. Or any of the right wing loudmouth attention seeking preachers of that ilk. I think they did and have done a disservice to the Gospel.

    And i also believe that those who have an anti-Christian bias will take every opportunity to talk up folks such as these in order to paint followers of Christ in general in a certain light in order to disprove the Gospel and the Word of God.

    Jerry Falwell doesnt speak for Christianity and toward the end that became more and more apparent.

    Since this was brought up in the political forum, by a moderator no less, then perhaps a discussion of the 99% of Christians who make the world a better place can now take place.

    Since all public policy stems from our values and what we believe perhaps we can begin a Bible study on this forum?
     
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Falwell and almost all of Organized Religion.

    Money.
     
  9. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You're right, Falwell didn't speak for Christianity, but he spoke for a small group of Christians who are the most vocal and influential in melding mainstream politics with their brand of dogma, and that's why it's appropriate to rebuff them whenever we can.

    As for a bible study here, I'd be all for it (though I can't speak for everyone). There's a lot I could learn, but the study group best be prepared for some views they may not like.
     
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    The legacy of Fellwell in my opinion, will be the inappropriate mixing of religion and politics. In doing so diminishing the separation of church and state, one of the founding tenants of our nation. This has caused the political landscape of this nation to turn into hatred toward persons rather than disagreement toward their ideas. Whatever happened to tolerance as a virtue?
     
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    I think a bible study thread would be fine as well, and I may even partake... need I say it? In the Religion forum.

    I can't guess Patter's reasoning here, as to the timing of this thread. I don't know the thread is supposed to be an exemplar of the "line" as he'd want to draw it, or a basic announcement that he's fine with religion everywhere.

    I do take issue with the assertion that our moral/ethical/etc. beliefs are the primary determinants of our arguments and our behavior, particularly as an argument for the substitution of proselytizing for discussion -- this is where we've gone with the argument in the past, though it may not be the intent of the current comment.

    Besides that difficulty, the assertion, though oft-made, is not substantiated.

    One can argue that our viewpoints come from parental or environmental influence; one can argue that our ideologies are superstructures built upon our material status; one can argue that our "selfish genes" are responsible for behavior patterns, which we can crystallize in our dogmas. Finally, particularly given the gap between "belief" and "action," one can argue that more than one set of motivations - the stated (to oneself) and the unstated - are always in play. This goes a long way to explaining hypocrisy (such as many can easily see in the late Rev. Falwell's public statements.)

    Finally, basing board custom on this shaky assertion (that our politics are all about our belief/moral/ethical systems), sort of obviates the point of a Political forum -- unless, of course, we had something like, ohhhh let's say a Religion forum, where such viewpoints can be exchanged.

    The problem with substituting these "core views" for comment on observed phenomena, is that we can say whatever we want, and essentially formulate views in a vacuum of data, if we go by our "religious" guidelines -- and this is precisely what happens when threads included these religious tangents before. The right/left polarization we see anyway is that much more exaccerbated by spurious claims of divine authenticity. Hence, the creation of a Religion forum.

    One can argue that God hates America; that God hates Muslims; that God hates homosexuals; that God prefers one or another party to win a given election; etc. We do not know any of these premises to be true, and yet we feel free to assert them, based on one or another dogma, with or without scriptural "evidence."

    This is like the conviction of "witches" in Salem, in supposedly bona fide courts of law, using something called "Spectral Evidence."

    The observable, physical universe, gentlemen, is what we all share without recourse to custom, divine revelation, and supernatural explanation. I continue to suggest that this is the universe which is pertinent to a Political forum.

    PFnV
     
  12. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Well, I quess that about sums it up.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2007
  13. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    but i would caution, and pardon the saying, careful what you pray for.
    Martin Luther King based much of his persuasive reasoning in changing civil policy on religious themes. He made it a moral issue. There our candidates on the left who have cited scripture to make Poverty, not just a political issue, but a moral issue.

    Again, I didnt care for Falwells ranting, and he wasnt a hundreth a man as Dr.King was. But lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater ( no references to abortion intended).
    If Rev.Falwell used similar ranting tactics to rail against right wing sacred cows, i would imagine people on the fringe left would love him as a "truth teller" and the right wing Christians would have posted anti-Falwell posts on football website political forums shortly after his death.

    ...just keeping it real...
     
  14. PatsFanInVa

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    Well, I'm pretty center-left, but have been accused of far-leftdom here. I have to say the current mantra among Democraticv candidates is that their faith inspires their values - and the mantra scares me.

    Although it's about time they come up with something to match the "we're God's favorite" cant of the Republicans, what they've come up with is pure imitation. "Go ahead, let that genii out of the bottle! It'll be fine!"

    As to the Dem candidates themselves, the argument they use is basically - "since faith shapes everyone's values, your religion may as well be used publicly and positively throughout the campaign."

    It's more the Republicans who are in "religion trouble" now. A Mormon or a Catholic who might be "going to hell..." or associates of the evangelical right, always a loose cannon when not actually in charge of the party? The GOP's religious fervor is toned way down this time (thus far.)

    Interesting times.

    PFnV
     
  15. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    King preached love,tolorance,and compasion,Falwell preached hate,intolorance and the belief that if you wern't a born again Chritian you were an unbeliever,a sinner, the work of the devil,and the ENEMY. In my opinion this is what he boiled down to,at the most base level. He and others like him inserted these beliefs into politics and the country has never been the same since,and its for the worst.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2007
  16. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    you see, thats the mantra that sounds scary to me. As if your average Christian voter is like Falwell. And the left would like nothing better than Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and the like to be what everyone imagines when the word Christian or Evangelical is used.

    So when values or abortion or Christianity is ever discussed, do they bring up Charles Stanley? Jack Hayford? T.D. Jakes? Joyce Meyer? Beth Moore? Joel Osteen?
    Nope.
    its always Falwell and Robertson, the lunatics.

    Falwell did a lot of damage to the Gospel in my opinion. To the glee of political liberals.

    Patters doesnt have to deal with Jesus message of love, tolerance, and compassion,nor does any other sinner, when you can make Jerry Falwell the face of Christianity.

    So why was this thread started in this forum again??
     
  17. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Naw! I think everyone recognizes that most Christians are good people and that Falwell, Swaggert and Robertson don't represent Christians. I think Reflexblue was referring to the sliver of Christians that tried to inject their warped views into government. They were successful, to a point, because Congressmen and other government types can't help themselves from pandering to them. They are so out of touch with what Americans are all about, they think lobbies, special interests, and those who buy access to them actually represent what Americans - voters and non voters - believe.
     
  18. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    What he said.:D
     
  19. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    the irony, and maybe this is another thread, is that liberalism was kind of shattered by a President from Texas who ruined his whole Presidency by running America into an idiotic war and even after it was a lost cause, kept up the doomed policy so as to not admit making a mistake.
    Lyndon Johnsons Great Society was ruined by the Vietnam War and it laid the groundwork for the conservative movement.

    Has anything destroyed the right wing more than this Texas President doing the same thing?

    The G.O.P. doesnt even have a real conservative, or at least one in the top tier, running in 2008
     
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    It's interesting that the trend is for the Dems to stand on religion. I think Falwell-style mixing of church and state has lost ground -- but to me, it's also less than optimal to run on an MLK-esque religious platform. Why? Religion is not statecraft. To his great credit, as a member of a whole 'nother religion, I feel I could be part of King's movement -- as many Jews were. Try that "thought experiment" in the Falwell case.

    But King was an exceptional man in an exceptional time. I'd prefer where you go to church, what God told you in a dream, and the biblical interpretation of the Breton Woods agreements to stay in the mind of the candidate, personally. What happens to the minority religions, when religious faith is considered a legitimate "criterion" for election? To the extent that confessional group is in the equation, we will end up voting by confessional group -- not by who we think espouses the best views or is most likely to handle the business of the country best.

    Did King start such a trend? No. Would Falwell, given a chance? Of course. Would the current batch of Dems? No... unless they were going to lose an election. Then Yes.

    If you want to house the homeless, you want to house the homeless. It is immaterial whether you come by this belief reading secular humanist works, the Tripitika, the Upanishads, the Quran, the Tanakh, or the Greek bible.

    Similarly, if you want to oppose the same stance, you can find your justification just as easily within as outside of a religion.

    Why not explain your argument's merits from first principals?

    PFnV
     

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