Woodhead vs Tomlinson

[CheeseMonkeys]

I would take mccourty and his contract versus revis with his.

lets compare gronkowski versus keller?........who would you rather have?

I just look at how successful these guys have been over their rookie seasons and you can't help but think how great they will be 3 years in. McCourty could easily surpass what Revis has done and Gronk may be as good as Whitten.

 

[ScrewDrvr]

now? of course Woodhead, who wouldnt?

LT in his prime?.... you would be crazy to NOT pick him.

 

[The Scrizz]

I would take mccourty and his contract versus revis with his.

lets compare gronkowski versus keller?........who would you rather have?

Actually you can't even compare them because Keller can't block. Keller is more of a poor man's Hernandez.

 

[RayClay]

Lol at this poll....let's compare a 10 year vet and future HOFer with a second year player that has yet to play an entire 16 game schedule.

I guess the next poll will be Revis vs. McCourty. Sad thing is I bet 90% of you homers will say McCourty.....LOL!

Lawrence Taylor vs Eric Moore.

 

[Rob0729]

It is funny, but after one game against the league's worst run defense who clearly had packed it in for the season, Jets fans apparently feel that McKnight is better than Woodhead. They have labeled Woodhead fragile because he wasn't allowed to come back into the game in a meaningless game.

Granted most of them thought Shonn Greene was going to be a 1,500 yard back before the season started. They were only 844 yards off.

 

[RamJet]

Wow., some of you guys are amazing. So based on what I've been reading most of you feel that Woodhead is better than LT, McCourty is better than Revis and Gronk is better than Keller. I think you can make fairly good arguments for the first and last cases, but I can assure you that NO NFL coach, not ever YOURS wouldn't swap Revis for McCourty in a heartbeat if given a chance. (And before you guys tell me about all of McCourty's INTs, let me remind you that rookies get targeted A LOT more often than proven shutdowns like Revis and Naamdi. Once McCourty earns the rep that those two have, his pick numbers are going to drop because a lot less throws will be coming his way. He has to earn that rep first thou...) Furthermore, the Jets safeties are weak and most teams exploit the middle of the field, far away from Revis.

Somebody mentioned that Revis dropped off a lot this year. Not true. Lets see, he held Andre Johnson (best receiver in the league) to 32 yards receiving on 4 catches, Calvin Johnson to 13 yards (1 catch), Ocho to 41 yards, Brandon Marshall to 16 yards (FYI - Revis didnt play in the first Fins game and Marshall had 166 yards receiving!), Donald Driver ZERO yards. The only TD he was beaten on this year was against you guys Week 2 and it took a one-handed catch from Moss to reel that one in. Additionally, Revis was still not up to game speed or shape at that point due to his holdout. Granted his year has not been quite as stellar in '10 as he was in '09, but truthfully, he had one of the ALL TIME GREAT seasons at CB last year (even Dion acknowledged that). A slight drop from that performance is to be expected. Heck, even Brady's "off years" are still exceptional by other players' standards...Sorry, but McCourty is not on Revis level yet. Does he have a chance with more experience? Certainly, but I would not count on it. Just like pitchers adjust to rookies that had great years at the plate in baseball, NFL QBs also make adjustments to DBs. Don't believe me? Ask your boy, Brady. You guys, off ALL fans should appreciate and understand QB adjustments. The book isn't out on the rookie McCourty yet. However, it IS on Revis since he's been in the league a few years and teams STILL can't solve him. They basically have all just decided to stay away from him as much as possible...Brady included.

BTW, just curious to know if you guys believe that the Jets possess one single player at any position that is better than the corresponding Pats player?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Today's Woodhead > today's Tomlinson. If we were talking 5 years ago, obviously Tomlinson wins by a landslide but his best days are behind him and he's never been a 'big game' player. Recall how often the Pats 'celebrated' victories on his field when he was back in San Diego.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow., some of oyu guys are amazing. So based on what I've been reading most of you feel that Woodhead is better than LT, McCourty is better than Revis and Gronk is better than Keller. I think you can make fairly good arguments for the first and last cases, but I can assure you that NO NFL coach, not ever YOURS wouldn't swap Revis for McCourty in a heartbeat if given a chance. (And before you guys tell me about all of McCourty's INTs, let me remind you that rookies get targeted A LOT more often than proven shutdowns like Revis and Naamdi. Once McCourty earns the rep that those two have, his pick numbers are going to drop because a lot less throws will be coming his way. He has to earn that rep first thou...)

Anyway, just curious to know if you guys believe that the Jets possess one single player at any position that is better than the corresponding Pats player?

1.) Woodhead has been better in the backfield than Tomlinson for the last half of the season. This is pretty much beyond question, and you concede at least as far as admitting to the argument.

2.) Gronkowski is a much better blocker than Keller. There's really not even a discussion about that. As for pass receptions, Gronk got 42 as a rookie, and Keller had 55 as his team's leading receiver. One could argue which number is better, based upon QBs, other options, systems, etc..., but the blocking pretty clearly sets Gronk above Keller.

3.) Revis was not the same as he was last year, and McCourty was excellent in the second half of the season. He's also 2 years younger than Revis, and a hell of a lot cheaper. Would most people take Revis over McCourty? Sure, but it's not as clear-cut as you seem to think it is.

 

[D-cleater]

I couldn't resist this thread. I love me some Woodhead but in terms of talent and value there is no comparison between the two outside of Patriot nation. The answer is that both players are more talented and valuable within their respective systems. Tomlinson doesn't fit and therefore wouldn't perform as well on the Patriots as Woodhead does, and vice versa.

 

[Kasmir]

I couldn't resist this thread. I love me some Woodhead but in terms of talent and value there is no comparison between the two outside of Patriot nation. The answer is that both players are more talented and valuable within their respective systems. Tomlinson doesn't fit and therefore wouldn't perform as well on the Patriots as Woodhead does, and vice versa.

I guess Football Outsiders is part of the conspiracy:

Woodhead (in 13.25 games): 341 DYAR
Tomlinson (in 16 games): 110 DYAR

You're right, there's no comparison.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

 

[D-cleater]

Anyway, just curious to know if you guys believe that the Jets possess one single player at any position that is better than the corresponding Pats player?

Pound for pound, Revis vs Mccourty is close. I've been high on McCourty long before the bandwagon came to town, but I'm not sure he's unseated Revis yet. I think Revis has gotten a little softer since his contract resigning, and Ryan has pumped him up just a bit too much. There is no question that McCourty has arrived and if he continues to shut it down in the playoffs, and comes up with a few big plays, he equal standing with Revis.

Elsewhere, Shawn Ellis in the Jets system probably wins over most of our two gap DE's, Pace and Thomas are better than our OLB's, but Ninkovich and Cunningham are closing the gap, and Eric Moore may be better than all of them next year. Finally, I'd take mangold over Koppen, possibly moore over Connoly but its close, and Moore still hasn't proven that he can return kicks.

 

[Kasmir]

BTW, just curious to know if you guys believe that the Jets possess one single player at any position that is better than the corresponding Pats player?

Well, we would have given you Mangold over Koppen, but Easterbrook talked us out of it

Tuesday Morning Quarterback Non-Quarterback Non-Running Back NFL MVP: Dan Koppen - ESPN

 

[D-cleater]

I guess Football Outsiders is part of the conspiracy:

Woodhead (in 13.25 games): 341 DYAR
Tomlinson (in 16 games): 110 DYAR

You're right, there's no comparison.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

First of all, talent and value are completely subjective, and should only be considered in the context of how they fit in the team. Thats why Woodhead is more valuable, and in his role, more talented, then LT, and vice versa. It's got nothing to do with some cooked up stat listed next to the chick with her legs spread. LMAO. But anyway:

Running backs are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this RB carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage.

By definition, it seems like they are measuring Woodhead against... morris? OK, I'll give you that Woodhead looks a lot better vs Morris than Tomlinson does vs Greene, but that doesn't mean that Woodhead is "better" than Tomlinson. I can already guess that Woodhead gets more YPC and more first downs than tomlinson, but he is on an offense that is a hundred times better.

I'll say it again, on the Patriots offense I'd take Woodhead 7 days a week and twice on Sunday...ask LT to do what Woodhead does and he won't be nearly as effective. Ask Woodhead to do what LT does for the Jets and he won't just be less effective, he'll be on IR.

By the way, this conspiracy crap you are talking about is just that...conspiracy crap.

 

[tests]

imo LT, is > but woody is perfect for the pats offense.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

It's a tough comparison because Tomlinson got a lot more use, week in and week out. But, there was a significant fall off in his production in the latter part of the season. The Tomlinson who played the first nine games was a lot like the Tomlinson of old; explosive at the line of scrimmage and able to turn tiny seams into running lanes. But, the LT who showed up for the last month or more of the season was noticeably slower.

In his first nine games, Tomlinson rushed for an average of 73 yards per game, or 4.7 yards per rush with an average 15.7 rushes per game. In his last six games (he sat out Week 17), he rushed for an average of 43 yards per game, or 3.3 yards per rush with an average of 13 rushes per game. Over the season, he averaged 4.2 yards per rush, with 14.6 rushes and 60.9 average yards per game (he carried the ball 219 times).

Over the entire season, Woodhead had fewer rushes (97 for 6.9 per game on average) and yards per game (39.1), but made a lot more of his opportunities with an average of 5.6 yards per rush.

In addition, Woodhead was a more productive receiver, catching 34 passes for a total of 379 yards (11.1 yards per catch). Tomlinson caught 52 passes for a total of 368 yards (7.1 yards per catch).

So, to answer your question, I think you have to say that Tomlinson was the more "talented" producer given his production over a lot of carries, but given what he did with the chances he had, I'd say that Woodhead was more "valuable" to the Patriots.

 

[Triple-T]

Ladainian = >31years old, ~3600 career touches, excuse making, can't show up in a big game ****y
Woodhead = not those things

RBs at that age, with that wear and tear in the NFL are just not going to last much longer. Woodhead has had an awesome year, is just under 25, has 150 NFL touches and should only improve.

2010 stats: advantage woodhead
age: advantage woodhead
wear and tear: advantage woodhead
salary: advantage woodhead
****es out when it really matters: advantage ladainian
HOF status: irrelevant

 

[Aenima0810]

Lol at this poll....let's compare a 10 year vet and future HOFer with a second year player that has yet to play an entire 16 game schedule.

I guess the next poll will be Revis vs. McCourty. Sad thing is I bet 90% of you homers will say McCourty.....LOL!

What? Did you not read anything? OP was comparing 2010 value.

 

[Aenima0810]

Man, you guys all made very good points, but you're missing the obvious when it's staring you in the face. Through all the rambling (kidding, intelligent points, but still rambling) its as simple as: One produced way more than the other, but with a good bit less touches. So, it's all guesswork of what Woodhead would have done with those imaginary touches. I won't be one to assume he would have kept up with those crazy production numbers, but at the same time I still think it would have been a good bit better than LT's (considering Woodhead would already have a signinficant head-start).

 

[Aenima0810]

To get exactly the Att-Yds Stats that LT had this season, Woodhead would have to average a hair over 3.0 yds/carry over his last 122 carries. And he only has 1 less Touchdown on 122 less carries. He has 11 more rec yds on 18 less catches than LT, and 1-0 edge on finding paydirt. I think given Woodhead's ability to take it to the house on any given play, from any formation, in any situation, it's safe to say he would still have more yds/touch than LT. (More end zone trips as well)

 

[TruthSeeker]

Wow., some of you guys are amazing. So based on what I've been reading most of you feel that Woodhead is better than LT, McCourty is better than Revis and Gronk is better than Keller. I think you can make fairly good arguments for the first and last cases, but I can assure you that NO NFL coach, not ever YOURS wouldn't swap Revis for McCourty in a heartbeat if given a chance.

Well, when you take into account that one player holds out with 3 years left on his contract and immediately after signing for more money indicates that he plans on holding out again soon and the other seems to be a humble, team player, the choice may not be quite as obvious as you think.