Welcome to PatsFans.com

Wonderlic and Kevin Curtis

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by everlong, Feb 21, 2007.

  1. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I was watching puff piece on NFL Network about the Wonderlic test, it did have some good tidbits but a puff piece nonetheless, and Curtis holds the highest score of any active player scoring a 48/50.

    I know a lot of you like Curtis as much as I do and when you add this on to his speed and good hands I think he's a BB player for sure.
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0


    You forgot his crisp route running and freak strength and leaping ability. I have been touting Curtis for a while. I think he has the potential to Branch and more in our offense. I hope we sign him fast.
  3. salty

    salty Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Wow, I did not know that. This actually does make me want the Patriots to sign him, but I'll stick by Drew Bennett as my #1 choice.
  4. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    Cousins,

    I mentioned Curtis a few days ago. He's almost 6' (5' 11 1/2") and 190 (not 170 that Branch was)and runs better routes than Branch. He is bigger. Has great hands. He is only 28 and in his prime. He will return kicks. NE is looking for speed to stretch the field.

    Bennett is not that type of WR. Bennett is a nice posession dude. Curtis is one of the fastest receivers in the NFL.

    In 2005 and 2006 he caught 100 passes and had 10 TD's and only started ONE GAME! They have Mr. Holt and Mr. Issac Bruce (If pending free agent Kevin Curtis returns to the Rams in 2007, he'd reportedly have to accept playing in a third-receiver role again-USA Today).

    He was a RFA last year or someone grabs him in 2006.
    The Rams want him back badly.

    Would he not be the guy that draws some attention to help Brady with Watson and Gafney immediately or better yet, gets open!
    Guess he's pretty smart too!

    Well Kevin, do the Rams make the Playoffs in 2007? Maybe, but not far. How are your chances with Mr. Brady?

    "Tom Kowalski, of mlive.com, reports the Detroit Lions plan to target free agent WR Kevin Curtis (Rams) when free agency begins in March."

    DW Toys
  5. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    Cousins,
    A little more information on Mr. Curtis. Curtis is a first class citizen and did mission work for his church.
    His wonderlik one of the best ever.
    Curtis is a physical freak of nature. At 5-foot-11, 185 pounds, he bench pressed 225 pounds 20 times in a workout for NFL scouts (his best is 385). He also posted a vertical leap of 38 inches and a hand-timed 40-yard dash of 4.21.
    4.21!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He has hands and runs patterns fantastic. Who in the draft besides Calvin Johnson would you want over this guy and not have to wait years for results (see Chad Jackson)?

    Can be signed for less than $2m.

    "People make reference about me being a fast white guy," says Curtis. "They don't think of a white guy when they think of speed. I've heard a few comments on the field. A couple of games ago, someone said, 'You sure can run for a white guy.'"

    DW Toys
  6. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Yup

    Thats the one we want. Most of us have been saying that, but who knows where the price tag is? Time will tell.
  7. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    No way he signs for 2m/year.
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    He has a Wonderlic of 48. He'll sign for much more than $2M per year.

  9. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Wonderlic is as over rated a measurement of a player as the 40 time. A few years ago a guy finished the test faster than anyone before him, and I believe he got a perfect the score. The guy was a back up QB who I don't even think is in the league anymore.

    John Elway and Dan Marino both had sub par scores, and they went on to have legendary careers. Vince Young's terrible score hurt him so badly that he won rookie of the year.
  10. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    Better routes than Branch? How the heck can you judge that?? Kevin curtis would be a solid pickup but come on.. Better than branch?? I think not..
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    Wonderlic scores aren't overrated. In fact, they are rarely talked about. They aren't listed in most scouting reports and pubs available to the public although 40 times always are. I doubt anyone on this board knows Chad Jackson's Wonderlic score, but I bet at least a few know his 40 time in last year's combine.

    The Wonderlic score is a decent measure of intelligence. You need more than intelligence to be a good football player though. The guy who got the perfect score was a player from Harvard and he had marginal physical skills for a NFL player. Albert Einstein would have gotten 50 out of 50 on the Wonderlic score. I doubt he could have stood up in the football gear though.

    Unlike the 40 time, no one uses the Wonderlic score as a measure on how good a football player the person is going to be. You hear a WR getting touted for his 40 time and he could jump rounds because of it, but no one has ever jumped a round because of his Wonderlic score.

    The Wonderlic score is important to players who are considered for the Patriots. The Patriots put intelligence on a higher level than most teams. The Pats do not target players with high Wonderlic scores, but if a player who has certain talents and fits our system his Wonderlic score is an important measurement for the Patriots. We would take Kevin Curtis because of his intelligence over a player with similiar talents who did not get nearly as high of a Wonderlic score.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2007
  12. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    There is a difference between intelligence and football intelligence. The Wondderlic does not measure football intelligence, yet people see it as some reflection of it. But it isn't.
  13. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    Cousins,
    Branch was mediocre at best for Seattle in 2006. Ironically, Reche had better numbers. Yes, I think the upside of Curtis is better than Branch and $2 million is maybe optimistic but certainly not twice as much as for Branch as he cost the Seahawks. Would you would pay twice as much for Branch?
    Now how much do you think Stallworth is gonna cost?

    KC-He's bigger, as fast and it has been said runs superb toutes. Haven't seen a atest to the route abilities of Branch. DB -Good player, not a great one.
    DW TOYS
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    Wonderlic does measure how fast you can think and your thought process. It doesn't measure everything. A high score does mean something to the Patriots because our offense is a read and react offense. A very good intelligence (not just a football intelligence) is important because a WR needs to remember a lot of plays and all the line adjustments based on defensive coverages. The Pats have a very complicated play book.

    So yes, the fact that Curtis had a high Wonderlic score is important because you need to be an intelligent person to play WR in the Pats' offense. Just ask Donald Hayes.

    Personally, I think in relations to football intelligence that a high Wonderlic score is more of an accurate measure than a low score.

    Besides, you mentioned Vince Young. I think he did most of his best work on pure physical talent than football intelligence. The Patriots showed that the guy needs to work on that area quite a bit.

    Elway was not the greatest football smarts guy. He was all instincts and amazing physical talent. The guy's career completion percentage was 56.9% which is rather average. His first ten years in the league he had 158 TDs and 157 INTs. Elway was a great QB, but he didn't have great football intelligence.
  15. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Kevin curtis 5-11, 186 pounds, D. Branch 5-9 193 pounds (right from nfl.com and team websites).. Curtis is taller but has less mass to him. Technically he is taller but isn't bigger..

    D. Branch ran great routes, which is required in the pats system. So to bend the conversation where Curtis is a better route runner.. Um I have to disagree.

    Stats wise. Curtis has only had 1 solid season ( 2005, 60 catches 801 yds). Where Branch was two yds away from 1000 yds and has three seasons of over 700 yds.

    Branch = SB MVP
    Branch = Mr Clutch.. How many times do you remember him dropping balls? I remember him as mr sticky :)
    Branch played in a system where there was no #1 and the ball was allocated to everyone on the field
    Curtis best season came when he started as the #2 in a pass happy offense with Mike Martz. His stats went down last year

    Yes we can argue the pats didn't want to overspend. But if we are talking about pure talent, Branch is head and shoulders a better receiver thank Curtis.
  16. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    The Wonderlic is basically an IQ test. Some might refer to it as SAT's for football players.. It really holds no weight in football. Watson had a great score and Vince Young received something like an 8.

    Reminds me of the kids that I went to highschool with getting 1200-1500 on SAT's.. Funny now when I run into them and feel bad for them.. Life isn't about tests.. Its about thinking on your feet and there is no test in the world that can judge that.. this is why someone like tom brady gets picked int eh 6th round. And Eli Manning flops..
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  17. cubedoggy

    cubedoggy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I believe it was Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB from Harvard, who several veteran posters would've taken over Cassel. He's just finished his second season w/ the Rams as 3rd QB behind Bulger and Frerotte. To paraphrase you, I believe he got a perfect the job for right now. ;)
  18. pheenix11

    pheenix11 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Thats funny, I always thought the SAT was all about thinking on your feet under pressure and not being able to have your parents do your homework for you or ass kiss your way into an A.

    Life is all about tests, everything is a test. The Super Bowl is test, one that Brady has aced 3 times.

    As far as Eli's wonderlic score of 39, there is no way that dumb little doofus scored that high. Something stinks there.
  19. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    The wonderlic is one piece of information for the teams to look at. It's not the end all and it's not useless. If two players are very similar in every other way but one scores 20 points higher than another on the test it will give them a higher grade. If the player scoring 20 points less looks better on film, interviews better, has better times on all of the combine tests a team isn't going to draft the player with the higher wonderlic score.
  20. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The St. Louis Rams official website reports despite a drop in production last season, WR Kevin Curtis will be one of the most sought-after receivers on the market in an offseason considered lean at the position. The Rams would like to bring Curtis back But there figures to be will be more than one team interested in Curtis. WR Shaun McDonald’s role was reduced even more in 2006 as he caught just 13 passes for 136 yards with one touchdown. McDonald did work as the team’s punt returner and had a bit more success in that role than in the past. McDonald likely won’t return, either, though it’s not out of the possibility that he could. Like Curtis, McDonald wouldn’t mind a return to his West coast roots. Should Curtis and McDonald depart in free agency; the Rams have WR Dane Looker under contract. Looker worked exclusively on special teams in 2006, but is still a solid receiving option. He could get the opportunity he has waited for if Curtis and McDonald depart.

    He's going to cost quite a bit of money. And he wants back out west. Believe me, once you've been out west, you don't want to come back to the East Coast.

    I'd say our chances are slim, but I'd love to be wrong.
  21. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    He should be had for something reasonable. He hasn't had an overwhelming amount of production. People will be spending for his skills and potential, not his production, which should slightly lower his price.
  22. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    In the NFL, you want to be on the East Coast. West Coast teams get ignored in the NFL because of the time differences. If Curtis wants chances at national TV and print spots (assuming he shines once he gets out of the shadow of Holt and Bruce), he wants to go to the East Coast.

    He said he wouldn't mind returning west, but that doesn't preclude him from coming east. The Seahawks won't want him. He won't want to go to the Raiders. So that leaves the Chargers and 49ers. One might bid on him, but maybe not.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  23. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    and his ability to take a hit. I was at the Rams-KC game this year and he caught a meaninglss pass at the end of the game and was going out of bounds when he got absolutely drilled by the DB. (Think of the hit put on poor Moorman by Taylor in the Pro Bowl and ratchet it up a few levels). He got up and walked off the field which I doubt too many other guys would have done. You could hear the impact of the hit up in the nosebleed seats.......
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  24. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    Cousins,
    Mr. McSully insists that Branch is much better than Curtis. He has been in the limelirte more, that's true. No where have I ever seen Branch named as a crisp route runner. In fact, wasn't one of his issue rounding off patterens? I could be wrong.

    Curtis is featured as a superior route runner. He was not a starter for the last two years and he still caught 100 balls and 10 TD's.

    Yes, Branch was the Super Bowl MVP and could get open but did not have more than one season starting all 16 games out of five years. He missed many games. He was a good receiver, not great.

    My point? Would we have to spend 29 Million to get Curtis? Is Branch three or four time the receiver Curtis is?

    Mr. M, Branch is no where near the WR in Seattle he was here. In fact he is not #1 might not even be #2 there this year.

    Curtis is only one answer. He should be more reasonable than Stallworth and less physical ills, and he could break-out in 2007 (if Caldwell catches 60 from TB, what would a better receiver do?). Now with Chad hurt (he won't be back in 2007 for sure), it needs to be adressed with another one or two. I could see Curtis and Gafney starting and Caldwell a number 3 guy if Brown retires. I say we draft not one but two WR (Hill and Rice perhaps).

    Now the question: Would you Cousins trade our two first rounders say to Romeo for the rights to get Calvin Johnson? The man will be a stud for years to come.
    DW TOYS
  25. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Not even a thought for me. Other than the fact stated here before, that I cant abide taking WR's before rd 3, There is no way I trade up like that in the draft (if the numbers are equal for trading value), for anyone but a DE.
  26. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    Cousins,
    RIP DJ!

    Shocker of the day. Found this in a draft site with a pretty good proposal.See below!
    Thoughts?
    DW TOYS

    Approved Trades:
    RAMS GET:
    PATRIOTS 1ST ROUNDER AND THE PATS 3RD

    PATRIOTS GET:
    TERRY HOLT
  27. salty

    salty Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Drew Bennett is a deep threat.

    Drew Bennett's average yards per catch: 16.0 last year, 14.6 career
    Kevin Curtis' average yards per catch: 12.0 last year, 12.6 career

    Plus, Bennett is 6'5". I'd take him over Curtis any day.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  28. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -1

    Isn't Bennett kind of slow and lumbering? He's like a 4.6 or 4.7 dude. Nice possession guy, but not a field stretcher. Who do you propose that would be in our presnt WR line up including say a Bennett?
    He's an x-QB.
    DW TOYS
  29. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,382
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Curtis wants to play with Martz again, and is considered a lock to go to Detroit.

    Granted, anyone choosing Detroit over the Pats should be investigated, because someone definitely took the Wonderlic for them.
  30. salty

    salty Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    If the guy is slow and lumbering, how did he average 16 yards per catch?

    As for the lineup, I think a starting duo of Bennett and Gaffney would be pretty damn good. I'd really like to Reche Caldwell out of the lineup, that guy is UNRELIABLE.

Share This Page