Without a veteran leader on D# this team is going to struggle

[Kontradiction]

Well, that's only a wee bit different from what he was saying.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I've only seen the deranged homers trying to make arguments about why we should expect a top five defense this year. But it's pretty obvious that the "majority of the board" doesn't think that.

 

[SVN]

i may be in the minority here but all this leadership stuff is a touch overrated. all those players you mentioned seymour,bru rodney...they were also great players and playmakers. I would rather have the ability first .Leadership will come.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I've only seen the deranged homers trying to make arguments about why we should expect a top five defense this year. But it's pretty obvious that the "majority of the board" doesn't think that.

To me, it still feels like the majority of this board thinks the Pats defense is good enough. The "top 5" reference was joke, hence the quotes to people that use stats as argument.

Well, that's only a wee bit different from what he was saying.

Actually, Kontradiction knew what I was talking about.

i may be in the minority here but all this leadership stuff is a touch overrated. all those players you mentioned seymour,bru rodney...they were also great players and playmakers. I would rather have the ability first .Leadership will come.

I agree. You can have all the leadership in the world, but it won't change the fact that your defense still sucks.

 

[JackBauer]

Actually, Kontradiction knew what I was talking about.

And what Kontradiction was citing was not the same as what you claimed in your original post, now was it?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

And what Kontradiction was citing was not the same as what you claimed in your original post, now was it?

No he actually got the "top 5" reference. They were in quotes for a reason. You're just not getting it.

 

[Synovia]

No he actually got the "top 5" reference. They were in quotes for a reason. You're just not getting it.

Maybe hes "not getting it" because you're not making any sense, because you don't have anything remotely close to a sensible point.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Maybe hes "not getting it" because you're not making any sense, because you don't have anything remotely close to a sensible point.

Kontradiction seemed to get it.

Let me break it down "dummy" version.

No matter where the Pats rank in total defense, they will suck (as they've shown in the past). They won't be able to stop teams when it matters most and they will get abused by the best offenses.

Does that help?

 

[JackBauer]

No he actually got the "top 5" reference. They were in quotes for a reason. You're just not getting it.

No, you're just reinforcing the fact that your driveway doesn't quite reach the road.

What you said was blatantly false and now you're trying to move the goalposts, but I wouldn't expect you to admit that.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

No, you're just reinforcing the fact that your driveway doesn't quite reach the road.

What you said was blatantly false and now you're trying to move the goalposts, but I wouldn't expect you to admit that.

Okay buddy. What was I trying to say then? Please tell me.

 

[JackBauer]

Okay buddy. What was I trying to say then? Please tell me.

Uhh... how the hell would I know? All I know is what you said, and what you said wasn't true, despite your attempts to change the meaning behind your original statement.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Uhh... how the hell would I know? All I know is what you said, and what you said wasn't true, despite your attempts to change the meaning behind your original statement.

Then why would you say that?

And what wasn't true?

There was a thread where a few people like myself were arguing that the defense should not be considered a top 5, despite their statistical ranking.

That is a fact.

My initial argument is that the majority of this board thinks the Pats defense isn't great, but good enough (which I don't think they are). The "top 5" reference was a joke, hence the quotes.

Do you get it now?

 

[WhiZa]

Wilfork is out spoken and does a good job on the DL, but it's true you really need someone in each group of DL, LB, DB. LB it's Mayo who is probably the softest spoken leader this team has had in 15 years. For DBs it's Meriweather who I think will take another step up this year, but he's still growing/learning at the same time as being a leader which is tough.

After last season I was hoping the Pats would sign some veterans on D (ie Bulluck). All they did was resign existing players and Crumpler. To me this means we will have the same situation we had last year with blown leads unless something significant happens. Right now there is a lot of stock in the growth of the younger players so my new catch phrase for this upcoming season is In Rookies We Trust!

 

[Mogamedogz]

Im not undering you guys who think Vince is "10xs the leader that Seymour ever was"...

That's nonsense.

Seymour was a great leader and lockerroom guy. I don't know if you all are misremembering or what.

 

[emoney_33]

"Leadership" is simply working hard, listening to the coaches, doing your job and being good at what you do. Pom-pom shouting and dancing does not drive a competitive spirit. This team is really young, and growing pains are inevitable. No amount of "leadership" is going to magically give the young kids experience, and experience is really what limits mistakes. Just enjoy the ride and hopefully there's enough quality character to go with all the talent that we -know- we have.

Will they be able to grow enough by the end of the season to really compete for the trophy? I say why the hell not! They can't have a better teacher

 

[JR4]

Some call that missing something "Leadership" , some call it "Play Makers"
some say it's Chemistry.

I call if "Football Smarts" which comes when a player has the mentality to
learn from his experiences over years of exposure and apply that knowledge in a split second to all kinds of situations in a game. A football
smart player sees things quicker than the average player and knows how
to react in a split second.

Assuming a player has the physical ability then what is needed is football smarts.
That is what Bruschi had.
That is what Rodney had.
That is what Willey had.
That is what Vrabs had.
That is what Phifer had.
That is what Law had.
That's what Otis Smith had.

These kids may some day be there but not today. And IMO not this year!
Player makers are a result of being football smart. When they are that
then they become leaders.

BB knew that when he loaded this team with football smart guys is his early
years here as a Patriot.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Im not undering you guys who think Vince is "10xs the leader that Seymour ever was"...

That's nonsense.

Seymour was a great leader and lockerroom guy. I don't know if you all are misremembering or what.

Wilfork to me is not much of a leader but Seymour was even less IMO,Where did you read that Seymour was a great influence in the locker room?

The leaders on defense during the glory years were known to be Rodney Harrison,Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel...the rest including McGinest and Seymour were great individual talents but not exactly the type of player a rookie can hang around and be taught.

There is a big difference between being a top talent on a team and a veteran and being a top talent and a veteran that takes players under thier wings...Bruschi and Harrison were those guys.

 

[rabthepat]

I said it earlier and I will say it again...this team will be ranked in the 20s area (20-25th best) when all is said and done.

This team is the version of the Chargers of the 80s...High powered top 5 offense with good looking TEs but with a defense that sucks

I think no one will emerge as a leader on defense,we just have to hope they all do thier job individually and well at that.

I agree 100%. I would add one additional condition. This D will let us down big time when it counts against a Manning, Brees, Farve and etc...

 

[chris66]

Kontradiction seemed to get it.

Let me break it down "dummy" version.

No matter where the Pats rank in total defense, they will suck (as they've shown in the past). They won't be able to stop teams when it matters most and they will get abused by the best offenses.

Does that help?

Well If this was actually a top 5 defense. they would be the favorites to win the super bowl., but i still think they will be top 10 in scoring. As long as they stay away from that cover 2 zone they have been playing the last 2 games

 

[Mogamedogz]

Some call that missing something "Leadership" , some call it "Play Makers"
some say it's Chemistry.

I call if "Football Smarts" which comes when a player has the mentality to
learn from his experiences over years of exposure and apply that knowledge in a split second to all kinds of situations in a game. A football
smart player sees things quicker than the average player and knows how
to react in a split second.

Assuming a player has the physical ability then what is needed is football smarts.
That is what Bruschi had.
That is what Rodney had.
That is what Willey had.
That is what Vrabs had.
That is what Phifer had.
That is what Law had.
That's what Otis Smith had.

These kids may some day be there but not today. And IMO not this year!
Player makers are a result of being football smart. When they are that
then they become leaders.

BB knew that when he loaded this team with football smart guys is his early
years here as a Patriot.

My point exactly. Which begs the question... why did he get away from what has been so succsessful?

Nobody is expecting the kids to step in a be the kind of leaders that we had in years gone by... but where are the veteran guys with "football smarts" to keep these young punks D) in line and working as a unit?

Was BB counting on AD to bridge the gap and just wiffed?

I dunno.. but going into this season, this defense looks nothing like any other since Belichick has been here. I wish I could feel like this change is for the better. I just don't see it.

 

[chris66]

My point exactly. Which begs the question... why did he get away from what has been so succsessful?

Nobody is expecting the kids to step in a be the kind of leaders that we had in years gone by... but where are the veteran guys with "football smarts" to keep these young punks D) in line and working as a unit?

Was BB counting on AD to bridge the gap and just wiffed?

I dunno.. but going into this season, this defense looks nothing like any other since Belichick has been here. I wish I could feel like this change is for the better. I just don't see it.

Easy. Salary cap is to high. teams do not have to cut veterans to get under like in the beginning of the decade. Its going to be tough to find the Vrabels and harrison's in free agency now