Welcome to PatsFans.com

Withdrawal prospects responsible for modest security gains?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,608
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    the bold part is striking, and reminds me of Tacitus' famous dictum: "they made a desert and called it peace"... or Bill Maher, when he said "Bush is gonna bring democracy to Iraqis if he has to kill every last one of them."...

    Is The Prospect Of Withdrawal Responsible For The Modest Security Gains In Iraq?

    Yesterday, the National Intelligence Estimate reported “measurable but uneven improvements” in the security situation in Iraq. While the White House has rushed to suggest that the modest gains were the result of escalation, the improvement can more plausibly be the product of Iraqi expectations of a U.S. withdrawal. (Some gains have also resulted because large numbers of Iraqis have fled their homes and ethnic cleansing has taken place.)

    Much of the touted security gains have come in the Anbar province, a region that was not the target of Bush’s escalation. In fact, progress in Anbar pre-dated the surge and occurred while troop numbers were being reduced in the region.

    The NIE states that local security arrangements such as those in Anbar province are being formed in response to imminent U.S. withdrawal, and that these “bottom up” security initiatives “represent the best prospect for improved security over the next six to 12 months”:

    “[F]earing a Coalition withdrawal, some tribal elements and Sunni groups probably will continue to seek accommodation with the Coalition to strengthen themselves for a post- Coalition security environment” […]

    “The IC assesses that the emergence of ‘bottom-up’ security initiatives, principally among Sunni Arabs and focused on combating AQI, represent the best prospect for improved security over the next six to 12 months, but we judge these initiatives will only translate into widespread political accommodation and enduring stability if the Iraqi Government accepts and supports them.”​

    In April, Defense Secretary Robert Gates acknowledged, “The debate in Congress…has been helpful in demonstrating to the Iraqis that American patience is limited.” It appears that the Iraqi expectation of a U.S. troop reduction has actually produced tangible progress.

    The New York Times reported that Sunnis’ perception of an impending withdrawal changed their attitudes. “Many Sunnis, for their part, are less inclined to see the soldiers as occupiers now that it is clear that American troop reductions are all but inevitable, and they are more concerned with strengthening their ability to fend off threats from Sunni jihadists and Shiite militias,” the Times wrote in July. In fact, leading Sunnis continue to demand a timetable for withdrawal.

    Gareth Porter, writing for Inter Press Service, reported recently, “The apparent success of Petraeus’s shift from relying on U.S. military force to relying on Sunni troops to take care of al Qaeda could be used as an argument against continuation of the U.S. military presence in Anbar.” He added:

    Recognition that there is a far more effective alternative to U.S. military operations to reduce al Qaeda’s influence would be a major blow to George W. Bush’s argument against a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops, which has relied increasingly on the threat of an al Qaeda haven in Iraq.​
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,133
    Likes Received:
    319
    Ratings:
    +809 / 26 / -33

    I was lead to believe it was because of the "Surge".
     
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,626
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    What? Ethnic Cleansing?!:eek:

    Time to invade...oh....wait.......:cool:
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,563
    Likes Received:
    164
    Ratings:
    +445 / 11 / -14

    It would seem that the prospect of us leaving would reduce the cooperation of the Sunni's and others simply wait for us to leave. The realization that Al Queda was the bigger problem combined with the surge, and the opportunity to get rid of both Al Queda and the MAhdi army of mookie is what is causing the situation to improve.

    Good spin to try to give Harry 'the war is lost' Reid and his posse some political cover.

    If the war goes well it will be because of Ted Kennedy and Murtha wanting to surrender, priceless!
     
  5. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    20
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0

    is this news? Or someone's OPINION?

    Cuz I got an opinion about this opinion :singing:
     
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,943
    Likes Received:
    303
    Ratings:
    +563 / 22 / -19

    And the war is going badly because Ted Kennedy and Murtha want to surrender, priceless!
     
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    41,627
    Likes Received:
    272
    Ratings:
    +1,113 / 3 / -10

    The democrats are scared to death that "something good" will happen in Iraq before the election.
    _____________________________________________
    Don't talk about my ears (Obama) :singing:
     
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,435
    Likes Received:
    320
    Ratings:
    +894 / 7 / -3

    Some people are truly M & M's. Why do people not want good news? Don't you want what's best to happen there? I can't fathom why any american would want to ridicule, criticize, or downplay progress. Oh, but you want America to succeed there, I forgot. :rolleyes:
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,563
    Likes Received:
    164
    Ratings:
    +445 / 11 / -14

    While many of the problems in Iraq have a variety of causes. Certainly if you look a MEMRI or Jihad Watch and read what our enemy is saying, it is clear that they are relying on politicians like Kennedy and Murtha to undermine our efforts and ensure our defeat.

    Their view is that if they stall long enough the defeatist in our congress will give them a victory.
     
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,608
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    i dunno... i guess, to me, ethnic cleansing in Anbar province -- an area not even touched by the "surge" -- is not "progress"... it's a crime against humanity.. call me crazy, but we can't claim "victory" when one side annihilates the other in a civil war scab our moronic leadership had to pick...
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,435
    Likes Received:
    320
    Ratings:
    +894 / 7 / -3

    Say what? Al Anbar isn't touched by the surge? Al Anbar is where we turned it around silly. Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about? We didn't even patrol parts of Al-Anbar cuz it was so bad, now we walk around on foot. I told you a long time ago, if you stick to reading only those sites that tell you what you like, you'll be dumber for it.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,943
    Likes Received:
    303
    Ratings:
    +563 / 22 / -19

    What else would you expect them to say? You have to stop trusting what the terrorists say. They are manipulating you.
     
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,563
    Likes Received:
    164
    Ratings:
    +445 / 11 / -14

    I don't trust terrorist but History teaches us that they many times don't lie about thier intentions, take Mein Kampf, Hitler while evil was very clear about his intentions, unfortuainlt then as now appeasers wouldn't take evil persons at their word.
     
  14. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,608
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0


    my mistake... i meant to say not targeted...

    Much of the touted security gains have come in the Anbar province, a region that was not the target of Bush’s escalation. In fact, progress in Anbar pre-dated the surge and occurred while troop numbers were being reduced in the region.​

    from Sept. of last year:

    Baghdad, however, is now the focus of the U.S. military and Iraqi forces in Iraq.

    "Baghdad, as I think you all know, is our main effort. And in military parlance, we have weighted that main effort with the movement of additional forces into Baghdad, both from other parts of Iraq and with the extension of the 172nd (Stryker Brigade) for four months beyond their year-long deployment," he said​
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2007
  15. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    [​IMG]


    It's quite possible this is the best bumper sticker of the war.
     
  16. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,608
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    show us where we're "winning" first and i'll give your curious proclamation a smidgeon of creedance...
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,563
    Likes Received:
    164
    Ratings:
    +445 / 11 / -14

    I doubt any evidence showing that we were winning would be adequatre for you given your POV.
     
  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,608
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    interesting viewpoint .... especially considering i doubt any evidence showing that it's a disaster and unsustainable after disbanding the Iraqi army would be adequate for you given your own curious and isolated POV.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,435
    Likes Received:
    320
    Ratings:
    +894 / 7 / -3

    WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like I said, keep sticking to those one sided sites, and all you'll get is dumber for it. The surge sent 4,000 additional troops to Al-Anbar. Man, people say retarded things, and then try to back track, or later try to cherry pick little pieces of negativity. People should want us to succeed there, and sadly, for political purposes, alot of people don't.
     
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,626
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    You could just as easilysay that those who insist on our continued presence and effort in Iraq might be doing so for political reasons. You can't over-simplify the issue by saying there are those who want us to succeed and those who want us to fail. The more accurate division of opinion is that there are those who think we went into this for the right reasons and think there is the potential for a positive, even successful outcome and those who think we should never have gone there in the first place, think our presence in Iraq is a worthless waste of time, will be ineffective in controlling a long-term factional civil war, and is a continued threat to our national security. You can't simply say you either want us to succeed or not. I would call our immediate removal of troops a success, as we will have prevented anty more American blood from being shed in an unmotivated and fractured country.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>