Wish we could close games like Manning can

[JJDChE]

It really sucks that I have to say this, but...which Manning?


:cry2:

(that crying icon is horrible)

 

[Deus Irae]

Manning has closed to a 3-3 record, and he's lost to the 3 best teams he's faced. He won last night because the Chargers gave the Broncos a gift.


Color me completely unimpressed.

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

Yes some of you noticed this was a bit of a free association thread, though it all comes back to the Patriots here, no? A bit of a chicken little reaction on my part? Yes.

Obviously, we have had some great comebacks. Last year against Miami. This year against the Bills.

But, recently, how many close games have we won in the last 5 minutes of the fourth quarter? Versus how many where people say "Well, we only lost by X points" and start adding up how many points we lost by in all our games?

That's the perennial arithmetic of the loser squad that can't hold their crap together. The 2007 Ravens, for instance.

Winners look at W-L, losers and their fans count points in losses, add up stats in losses, and quibble about details (see my Brady quote).

I don't want to be that. I want to say, Yes, we can close a game. I want teams to be scared of being down to us with 4 minutes to go. Not confident they can just lob a few up and take it back from us because our secondary is so inept. Not confident that they will get an easy 3 and out because of McDaniels' conservative play calling, or Brady's recent tendency to see ghosts in high pressure situations.

Do I wish we had Manning (either one) at the helm? No. Do I want us to get our s*it together with these problems that have been haunting us for years now? YES.

You do realize that we won the AFCCG last year correct and were 14-2 the year before ? Did you just start watching football this year?

And given your "we can't close out games" comment, you do remember that we stripped the ball out of Evans hands to save a game wining touchdown to win the AFCCG game, right?

And please don't come back with the missed FG argument/close but not quiet regarding the Ravens as, to use your own words, fans can't use the almost won argument or the "we only lost by x points" argument . . .

Surely were aren't the best at closing out games but we are good enough to win the division and the AFCCG last year and go 14-2 the year before and be the #1 seed in the AFC for two years running . . .

So people need to chill a little bit . . .

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

Dude, you must not of watched the game. Yes, the whole Bronocos team played hard but come on, Manning marched them right down the field and stuck the dagger in. His pocket presence and accuracy was amazing. I hate to say it, but he really should be considered as one of the greatest Qbs of all time. And yes, so should Brady.

You realize dont you that Manning only netted 14 points for his team . .. had a pick six and three TDs drives all game long . ..

One TD drive was from the denver 20ish, so kudos there, but the other two drives were from midfield after two defensive ints . . .

So Manning contribution to the team is one long TD drive and two from midfield and a pick six . . . so tell me mosi, how impressive, in this day in age of the passing game, is a net score of 14 points and one long and 2 short TD drives? Best of all time impressive? or just your run of the mill average QBing in today NFL . . .

 

[Yehoodi]

You know that the orignal poster wasn't insinuating that he wants Brady and the Pats to start off in a 24-0 hole. You even mentioned that you understood that we have a issue closing games out than typed this out.

He just mentioned the fact that this team cannot close games as of late. While the Patriots usually play with the lead for most of the game, if not all, we haven't been closing games and its been on the offense just as much as the defense. Sunday, it was the offense that failed to close the game. Defense forced Seattle into a 3-and-out and the Patriots crapped the bed.

Its not how you start, its how you finish. In all honesty, I'd take the way the Broncos game went over the way the Patriots game went anyday.

for my response to this post, please see my points regarding the pats in my post #43 supra, I think some people expect their teams to win ever game . ..

 

[Fball]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

You realize dont you that Manning only netted 14 points for his team . .. had a pick six and three TDs drives all game long . ..

One TD drive was from the denver 20ish, so kudos there, but the other two drives were from midfield after two defensive ints . . .

So Manning contribution to the team is one long TD drive and two from midfield and a pick six . . . so tell me mosi, how impressive, in this day in age of the passing game, is a net score of 14 points and one long and 2 short TD drives? Best of all time impressive? or just your run of the mill average QBing in today NFL . . .

Nothing like marginalizing an exceptional, historic MNF performance from a QB.

Manning was incredible last night. Yes, it was a team effort - but anyone who enjoys the game of football, and watched the game, would hardly characterize what he did as "run of the mill/average." He was in a zone.

 

[dannydyn]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

Nothing like marginalizing an exceptional, historic MNF performance from a QB.

Manning was incredible last night. Yes, it was a team effort - but anyone who enjoys the game of football, and watched the game, would hardly characterize what he did as "run of the mill/average." He was in a zone.

He wasn't average by any means, but if you take those Rivers picks out of the equation, the Broncos would have walked off with a loss.

The bottom line is: Denver didn't win last night. The Chargers lost.

 

[Fball]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

He wasn't average by any means, but if you take those Rivers picks out of the equation, the Broncos would have walked off with a loss.

The bottom line is: Denver didn't win last night. The Chargers lost.

That's a game you can play with any team, in almost any game. What happens if you take the 1st half fumbles & pick 6 off of the board?

Denver took that game in the 2nd half. They set the tone w/ the 1st drive, and had the Chargers on their heels the whole time. It's a disservice to the effort that whole team made to just put it on the Chargers throwing it away.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

That's a game you can play with any team, in almost any game. What happens if you take the 1st half fumbles & pick 6 off of the board?

Denver took that game in the 2nd half. They set the tone w/ the 1st drive, and had the Chargers on their heels the whole time. It's a disservice to the effort that whole team made to just put it on the Chargers throwing it away.

When the opposing QB tosses out 4 INTs, you can usually stop looking for reasons why a team won.

This case is not an exception to that.

 

[Fball]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

When the opposing QB tosses out 4 INTs, you can usually stop looking for reasons why a team won.

This case is not an exception to that.

In '04 - did Philly lose the Superbowl, or did NE win it?

 

[robbomango]

Rivers 4 INTs, 2 fumbles(1 for a TD) and a blocked punt for a TD. That was a 2nd half collapse of epic proportions. 5 of the 6 Rivers turnovers came in the second half along with the blocked punt, while Manning only had 1 or 2 incompletions out of 12-14 passes and 3 TDs.

The meltdown was just as impressive than the comeback, great game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

In '04 - did Philly lose the Superbowl, or did NE win it?

If you look at the game, one pick was thrown when the Eagles had 1st and 10 on the NE 36 and the second 'real' INT was on 1st and 10 on the NE 19. Hell, on the play before the 1st and 10 from the 19, he'd been picked off by Samuel, but got bailed out by an illegal contact call against Phifer. The last pick was pretty much meaningless beyond being the nail in the coffin, given the situation.

There's no question that Donovan McNabb helped the Patriots win that game with those picks.

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

Nothing like marginalizing an exceptional, historic MNF performance from a QB.

Manning was incredible last night. Yes, it was a team effort - but anyone who enjoys the game of football, and watched the game, would hardly characterize what he did as "run of the mill/average." He was in a zone.

it was a great game and one for the ages, clearly . . . but when a player contributes a net total of 14 points (the same Brady contributed in SB 42) I am not so sure I would say that he was in a zone (was Brady in a zone in SB 42? (and his scoring drives were longer btw). . . he did what he had to do to win, but it is not like he scored 28 points with sustained drives of 70+ yards . . .

there is a just a little bit too much credit going to Manning and more is needed for his team . . .

surely down the road there will be games where one can point to Manning as a major contributer to the game . . . but not so much last night, well at least in reference to the rest of his team . . .

If the D had not stepped up, we would be looking at a 2-4 Broncos, a pick six by Manning and them behind the Chargers by 2.5 games . . .

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

In '04 - did Philly lose the Superbowl, or did NE win it?

It was a combination of the two . . . the Pats played great, but the Eagles and McNabb help too . . . he had a few picks in that game . . . so i would say it was a combo of the two . . .

 

[reflexblue]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

Your thread title is misleading. This isn't about Manning. It's another opportunity to complain about the Pats.

Ha the OP agrees with you, he gave you a like.

 

[celticboy04]

Greetings,
If you watched that game you saw the Broncos ability to get pressure with four was a huge contributor to the win. They had what I would call a great pass rush.
Celticboy04

 

[jcdavey]

Rivers 4 INTs, 2 fumbles(1 for a TD) and a blocked punt for a TD. That was a 2nd half collapse of epic proportions. 5 of the 6 Rivers turnovers came in the second half along with the blocked punt, while Manning only had 1 or 2 incompletions out of 12-14 passes and 3 TDs.

The meltdown was just as impressive than the comeback, great game.

there was no blocked punt .....

 

[thenepatsrule]

There is an interesting thread on JI about which QB is better . I found this particular post interesting

That team went 11/5, 10/6, 10/6 the three previous years before Montana arrived with DeBerg and then Craig at QB.
He was a great QB but under the Walsh system Steve Young was a great QB. Montana was great is worthy of mention as one of the greatest of all time but he also played on great teams with great overall talent under one of the Greatest if not the greatest offensive HC in NFL history.
There is no slam dunks in naming the greatest in this catagory.

 

[Yehoodi]

There is an interesting thread on JI about which QB is better . I found this particular post interesting

not sure where they are getting those numbers as the 49ers when 2-14 in both 1978 and 1979 . . .

 

[neuronet]

Re: Broncos down 24-0 at half, come back to win

Ha the OP agrees with you, he gave you a like.

I changed the title of the original thread based on his complaint, so that's why I gave it a like.

Listen folks, I should be clear about the semantics of the word 'closing'. By that I mean, in our case, win when we are ahead by fewer than 7, our offense gets the ball, and there are 2:30-4 minutes to go.

Now, when in this situation, I literally put my head in my hands in agony because I know what is about to happen. Our last five losses have been the same thing:

Crappy offensive drive (usually 3 and out), deep bomb from the opponent embarrassing our secondary, other team scores; we lose.

If we can avoid any of those things, then we will have learned to close a game. Some have pointed out that we squeaked by in the AFCCG. Yes, that is a counter to what I'm saying, but you know it came perilously close to fitting this exact pattern.

The analogy with last night's game with Peyton admittedly isn't perfect as that was one weird game.

I don't expect to win every game. That is silly. What I do want is for us to win games in which we are ahead, and our offense gets the ball with under 4 minutes to go. That is incredibly reasonable of me, and for some reason our team can't pull it together.

I'm not saying we suck, or won't make the playoffs, or that we should win every game. I'm saying let's close winning games off, as I defined it above.

Thanks to those who were charitable in interpreting what I wrote, e.g., pointing out that I obviously didn't mean to say I want to play from behind every week.

Oh, and our clock management lately on offense, since JoshD came back, has been atrocious.