Willie McGinest sack/penalty question?

[brdmaverick]

During one of Willie McGinest's sacks during the rout of the Jaguars, Willie had taken a few shots at Leftwiches head. I know that any shot to the head of a quarterback is a penalty, and that they blew that call in our favor. My question is, even if they had made that call, Willie still would have gotten credit for the sack right?

 

[p8ryts]

Credit for sack?

No, but I don't agree Willie committed a blow to the head, maybe grabbed him by the head, but that's ok.

 

[sarge]

Not if they accepted the penalty, because the play wouldn't have counted.

Let me add another question, and I am looking for a serious answer because it may be perfectly legal.

On one play in the second half, I can't remember if it was Leftwich or Garard, but Colvin was coming in for the sack. The QB stiff armed Colvin and completely grabbed his face mask. He continued to hold his face mask for quite a few seconds and this was how he avoided being sacked. He sort of dragged Colvin to the ground as well, but this may not have been a direct result of pulling down on the facemask, more of just the stiff arm itself. None the less, he clearly grasped his facemask and held on for quite some time to avoid the sack.

Is that legal?

 

[BelichickFan]

On one play in the second half, I can't remember if it was Leftwich or Garard, but Colvin was coming in for the sack. The QB stiff armed Colvin and completely grabbed his face mask. He continued to hold his face mask for quite a few seconds and this was how he avoided being sacked. He sort of dragged Colvin to the ground as well, but this may not have been a direct result of pulling down on the facemask, more of just the stiff arm itself. None the less, he clearly grasped his facemask and held on for quite some time to avoid the sack.

Is that legal?

I think that was a missed call, offensive players aren't allowed to grab defensive facemasks.

 

[marty]

Not if they accepted the penalty, because the play wouldn't have counted.

Let me add another question, and I am looking for a serious answer because it may be perfectly legal.

On one play in the second half, I can't remember if it was Leftwich or Garard, but Colvin was coming in for the sack. The QB stiff armed Colvin and completely grabbed his face mask. He continued to hold his face mask for quite a few seconds and this was how he avoided being sacked. He sort of dragged Colvin to the ground as well, but this may not have been a direct result of pulling down on the facemask, more of just the stiff arm itself. None the less, he clearly grasped his facemask and held on for quite some time to avoid the sack.

Is that legal?

That was Garard trying to avoid the sack! Don't know how the officials missed that one!

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

That was Garard trying to avoid the sack! Don't know how the officials missed that one!

Dunno... it was kinda hard to spot...

 

[PATSNUTme]

In looking at it again, Willie did swing his arm a couple of times but missed the head. So, no contact to the head- no penalty.

 

[workhorse]

I think with offensive players and stiff arms, they will call a penalty if they all out grab & hold and get an advantage with it, an advantage other than just a normal stiff arm.

 

[Patters]

On one play in the second half, I can't remember if it was Leftwich or Garard, but Colvin was coming in for the sack. The QB stiff armed Colvin and completely grabbed his face mask. He continued to hold his face mask for quite a few seconds and this was how he avoided being sacked. He sort of dragged Colvin to the ground as well, but this may not have been a direct result of pulling down on the facemask, more of just the stiff arm itself. None the less, he clearly grasped his facemask and held on for quite some time to avoid the sack.

Is that legal?

One the the tv announcers implied it was legal. Also, have you ever heard of QB being called for a facemask during a sack? I haven't. I could see it as being legal, especially since grabbing a facemask during a sack is a lot different than twisting someone around by their facemask.

 

[workhorse]

In looking at it again, Willie did swing his arm a couple of times but missed the head. So, no contact to the head- no penalty.

It was pretty funny watching him do that, you just have to wonder what exactly he was thinking.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

Looked like to me that Big Play Willie was trying club the ball out of Leftwich's hands.

 

[sarge]

I think with offensive players and stiff arms, they will call a penalty if they all out grab & hold and get an advantage with it, an advantage other than just a normal stiff arm.

Did you look at the picture Tshirt Dynasty attached?

 

[sarge]

Dunno... it was kinda hard to spot...

WOW,

I guess I can see how they missed it!

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I'm pretty sure this was the one where Willy was beating Leftwich over the head, clearly he wasn't trying to club him to death as much as he was fighting for a grip or trying to grab around for the throwing arm. (Second photo courtesy of PatsRI's sig)

 

[markd]

I thought he was trying to reach around the helmet and get to the shoulder. Looked like love pats to me. ;-)

Markd

 

[Alk]

When I saw the play, it almost looked to me like Willie was trying to put his hand in his face so he couldn't see where he was throwing the ball. I just thought it was a heads up play on Willie's part.

 

[groundgame]

I think Willie kept pawing at Leftwich's helmet to avoid a face mask penalty, that could have easily occured the way the QB's head was bobbing. I think a penalty on Willie would have voided the sack, unlike Richard Seymour's sack in an earlier game that counted even though he was called for roughing the passer as he slammed the QB to the ground at the end of the sack play.

 

[workhorse]

Did you look at the picture Tshirt Dynasty attached?

I saw the picture, but I did not see the play. So, it's had for me to comment on the play. I was just speaking in general terms as far as the offensive player gaining an advantage with the facemask.

 

[sarge]

I saw the picture, but I did not see the play. So, it's had for me to comment on the play. I was just speaking in general terms as far as the offensive player gaining an advantage with the facemask.

Ahhh.

During the play, it was a good 2-3 seconds he had a hold of his facemask!

 

[workhorse]

Ahhh.

During the play, it was a good 2-3 seconds he had a hold of his facemask!

OK, but did he actually pull his head off while he had his facemask? Refs are really fickle about calling offensive facemask, outside of offensive linemen, and are probably less likely to call it in a playoff game.