Willie McGinest on what ails the Pats

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Triumph, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #75 Jersey

    The sieve of a NE pass defense is why NE cant get over the hump. How many times have you seen the camera pan to Brady late in the game as the pass defense is getting smoked?

    This defense needs Ed Reed or somebody with some cajones.

    McGinest: Patriots defense needs more attitude
  2. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    There is no denying what Willie is saying, there is no fear factor playing against the Pat's D. It sucks, but he's right, it's the truth. Nobody comes up big in big games, and if the offense is off (against Balt this year, SB 42 and SB 46 against the Giants), we are ******* toast.
  3. DaBronxPats14

    DaBronxPats14 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    YUP and..........
    Someone To CATCH'da @#$%'n BALL to win a Superbowl
    Someone to BREAK UP a CRUCIAL PASS to win a Superbowl
    EVERYONE STAYING HEALTHY goin into a Superbowl!

  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Having Talib go down changed the entire complexion of the game. The Patriots didn't need Ed Reed. The Patriots needed their CB1 to be on the field instead of on the sidelines.
  5. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

    Will I do agree about having to take it personal.Our defensive leaders are passive right now . If rodney was in that locker room, no rex ryan,suggs or pollard or anyone would say crap about the team and not get a response. I know BB wants it to keep quiet but sometimes a response from your defensive leader can galvanize the team.
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I like Willie and he has a point. But many of those guys were still here in 2007 and it didn't do the trick.

    I think part of the problem since then is this has become a young team where guys can't stand up to Bill, let alone opponent. On a veteran team Bill often listened to his core defensive players. And they weren't shy about approaching or challenging him. I doubt any of these guys are at a point yet where they can walk over to him and say jeezus Bill, wtf... They've been conditioned to do as they are told. The captains are supposed to handle that kind of back and forth. Ours are the jovial Vince Wilfork, Bill's adopted son Jerrod and the younger McCourty twin who is now classified as a DB.
  7. Nehalem

    Nehalem On the Game Day Roster

    Was it the defense that made it so the offense only scored 13 points?

    Maybe it if the offense didn't turn the ball over at midfield the defense wouldn't have allowed 28 points?
  8. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Is Willie aware the offense scored one TD? Or zero points after half time.
    Is Willie aware the offense made it into the red zone only 3 times netting 1 TD despite 54 pass attempts
    Is Willie aware the NE offense ran 82 plays (a huge number) to get those 13 points.
    Small ball came up small, Willie.
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I'm not so sure it's that cut and dried. The 2004 Patriots lost Ty Law and that didn't stop them. Probably because they had Rodney Harrison and the backerhood and a talented front. There is some talent on this defense, but it's young and insufficient and it has to get past relying on any one player as a crutch. That mentality gets you nowhere.
  10. condon84

    condon84 In the Starting Line-Up

    Agree with Willie's assessment on the defense not having pride. It was so evident when we played the Jets in the playoffs in 2010, with the Jets completely disrespecting the team and then dominating our team at home.
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    The D was what the 2nd youngest in the league, not many guys are 'leaders' when they are young.
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    He's aware of that. He played behind a small ball offense that didn't always score a ton of points. On a defense that generally made it a point to give up a least a few less.
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We saw the game change as the Patriots were no longer able to cover Boldin once Talib was out. It took time for the Ravens to exploit it, but it was an obvious adjustment. It was pretty cut and dried, IMO, but I think you may be thinking that I was raising a bigger point than I was. My point was game specific. I don't think there's one specific thing that ails the Patriots. I think multiple smaller things combine to become huge at some point in the playoffs.
  14. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    David Patten....YPC....14 ('01), 13 ('03), 18 ('04)
    David Givens....YPC....15 ('03), 15 ('04)
    Deion Branch... YPC....14 )'03), 13 ('04)
    Troy Brown.... 11 YPC in 3 SB years

    Welker....10-12 YPC as a Pat
    Lloyd....12 YPC
    Branch...9.1 this year
    AHern...9.5 this year
    Gronk.....14.4 this year

    Not really apples to apples...different era, different philosophy etc....but both Givens and Patten offered Brady a viable mid range target vs today's starting pair. Are those extra 3 yds/catch even more impressive considering how WRs were mugged back in the day?

    The most interesting newly discovered fact in this exercise is that Brady average 12.8 YPC in 2004 but only 12.1 YPC on that great Moss team of '07. I will credit NE's superior running game in '04 for opening up the field and allowing Patten to roam for 18 YPC that year. Brady lived off play action in '04...but now it gets lost in the perpetual shot gun offense.
    Build up the line, establish the running game as a feature, not a residual affect. Then work the play action. If BB won't add a deep threat, at least slow the LBs down before they flood the secondary (sorry for going off course)
  15. DaBronxPats14

    DaBronxPats14 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Deus well said/typed!
    I was saying this last couple of years about our DBs let alone Non Pass Rush cost us a couple of superbowls. All Talib did when he came over was cover up holes we always had on DEF. I had said in other posts that we are "One Talib Injury Away" from seein our Same'ole Same'ole DBs self destruct. YES Talib made us that much better and made our DBs much better but it's pathetic when we have to rely on one player to determine an outcome of a game and BIGGEST ONES on stage.
  16. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez On the Game Day Roster

    I agree with the Talib analysis. Pats were not the same after he went down and no one could effectively cover Bolden. This was certainly a large factor in the loss. But that was not the only problem and the fact that they could not put any points on the board in the second half was also a significant problem.
  17. DaBronxPats14

    DaBronxPats14 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Mo I can see your point, these guys aren't goin into BB's office kickin their feet up on his desk and tellin Bill this or that would be good or bad play or player in a different spot etc Just look at Brady every time he says Coach wants us to, Bill told us to......and we just go out and do what he wants from us then that just sums it up right there.
  18. DaBronxPats14

    DaBronxPats14 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    No Talib absense was not entirely why Pats lost or couldn't put up pts to score more to win but Deus nailed it, This game is all about momentum and belief and when Talib went out you can see a change for worse on our D and not only that you think that Brady doesn't say OH NO here we go again with our D? He's not goning say it but how many times has he put up scores only to see other teams march down with ease and score?
  19. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    Talib going down certainly shifted things to the point where the secondary could only stop the deep bomb, leaving Boldin to run free.
    However, I blame the offense. No way you can get an pass scoring only 13 points. For all of us who call P. Manning a choker for not coming through in the playoffs with "record setting regular season numbers" - this was a bigger choke job.
    At the end of the day, our OL cannot run when it needs to. It was embarrassing how B'More owned the LOS against us. Where the heck were Mankins and Vollmer…they guys did very little to negate the "finesse" or "gimmick" slights the offense is often criticized with.
  20. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    How many times has a he had the ball in his hands to either tie or win a playoff game and failed? 2006, 2007, 2010 (the drive to nowhere was that game in a microcosm), and 2011 come to mind. During the 2012 regular season, we lost to Baltimore the first time after blowing a lead and not being able to get point with the ball in hand and 4 mins left.
    Maybe I am too hard on him…but I feel like the GOAT needs to come through when these situations arise.
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