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William F. Buckley: It Didn’t Work

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    William F. Buckley: It Didn’t Work

    http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp

    "I can tell you the main reason behind all our woes — it is America." The New York Times reporter is quoting the complaint of a clothing merchant in a Sunni stronghold in Iraq. "Everything that is going on between Sunni and Shiites, the troublemaker in the middle is America."

    One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed. The same edition of the paper quotes a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute. Mr. Reuel Marc Gerecht backed the American intervention. He now speaks of the bombing of the especially sacred Shiite mosque in Samara and what that has precipitated in the way of revenge. He concludes that “The bombing has completely demolished†what was being attempted — to bring Sunnis into the defense and interior ministries.

    Our mission has failed because Iraqi animosities have proved uncontainable by an invading army of 130,000 Americans. The great human reserves that call for civil life haven't proved strong enough. No doubt they are latently there, but they have not been able to contend against the ice men who move about in the shadows with bombs and grenades and pistols.
     
  2. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    William F. Buckley supports the war = Right wing ideologue who's views should be dismissed

    William F. Buckley speaks out against the war = Important columnist who needs to be heard
     
  3. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Spot on.

    Buck is a dinosaur, but certainly a thoughtfull one. Iraq is a work in progress which at any time could go either way. To have lacked the courage to try great things would be the travesty given what was at stake.
     
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I think we know it didn't work now. I still think it was the right thing to do and I still think Hussein had WMD that were likely moved to Syria. But it has clearly failed and there is basically no chance of redemption for the middle east at this point. We tried. We should leave, just use them for their oil and if we can ever become energy independent just let them rot.
     
  5. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    What exactly was at stake?

    I will tell you what: It was the Bush's family reputation.

    The invasion was not about terrorism.

    Neither was it about WMD.

    Nor was it about Saddam's tie to Bin Laden.

    The whole war was a lie, a mirage.

    It was the son's private war to salvage the reputation of the family's name.

    The Iraq war is not America's wary.

    It is George Bush's "mistake".

    What is unfortunate is the 2,300 young American soldiers who sacrificed their lives to the altar of George Bush

    Those 2,300 American soldiers died for nothing.

    .
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Buckley is one of many right wingers who now oppose the war in Iraq, Grover Norquist and Fuyakama to name a couple of more. These are more than idealogues, they are authors and supporters of the neo con philosophy. You cannot dismiss what they are saying, unless you live at 1600 Penn Ave.
     
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thats Liberalism in a nut shell.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Harry, Turd is missing the point. Buckley is one of you, a diehard committed conservative, and he is now viewing the war as a failure. I still look upon Buckley with as much contempt as I ever did, but his view of the war should resonate with people like you more so than, say, Hillary Clinton's view of the war.
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why did a "blubberibg liberal democrat" like John Kerry vote FOR the war (before he voted against it).

    Why did all those other Neo Lib Democrats vote FOR the war?

    Why did the WHOLE WORLD believe Saddam had WMD's?

    Do you know, they still may be found (WMD)

    Do you know that Saddam gassed little 6 yr old children and they died vomitting in their dead mothers laps.

    Do you know Saddams two "Sons From Hell" used to rape little children and young girls and make their parents watch while Saddam smoked his cigar and laughed.

    Do you know that Saddam, two days after 9/11 had a 80 ft Muriel painted on his palce wall of the Twin Towers burning and he ordered little falling bodys to be painted into it.

    Why do you f-cking liberals hate America?
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You have so much f-cking compassion for the Iraqi people! I never realized you were such a liberal, willing to spend billions of dollars to help victims of abuse. Let's spend a few billion at home to do more for victims of rape and child abuse, for sick children, for poor people. If your cause is specifically the Muslims, perhaps you could get involved in helping them here. Maybe there's a predominantly Muslim Senior Citizen Center you could volunteer at near your home or you could write letters to your Congressperson asking for increased support and protection of our Muslim minority.
     
  11. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought we went through this already. They were lied to.

    I believe George Bush already spent millions US dollars, over 2,000 American soldiers over 2 years looking for his non-existent WMD.

    The only crime Saddam is accused of is the killing of 145 people under his direction. In contrast, George Bush has acknowledged the killing of over 50,000 Iraqi innocent civilians and children by the US army under his direction.

    Why do you Republicans hate Americans? Why did you send over 2,300 innocent American soldiers to their deaths in Iraq? Why did you allow hundreds of innocent Americans to die in New Orleans? Why did you cut the student loans for thousands of poor children who can not go to school? Why did you cut the Medicare for thousand of older Americans? Why did you spent over $500 billions of our money on a war based on lies?

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  12. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What's really sad is that this makes it clear that we didn't learn a gotdam thing from the war in Vietnam. The more things change, the more they remain the same. At least the body count isn't as high.
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not yet and the whole country is not completely divided, close but not completely.
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is it possible that Bush was lied to, if so, by whom, if so, why isn't the "Uncle Teddy Gang" all over it and trying to bring "the liars" to task instead of getting all bent out of shape because Dick Cheney shot his friend in the face with some buckshot.
    _______________________________________________
    I would rather go hunting with Cheney than go for a ride with Kennedy.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's actually the one really positive thing. In the 60s and 70s, it took nearly 60,000 deaths of soldiers before Americans turned away from the war. Now, with only 2,300 deaths, we're already seeing breaks in the right wing. It's a great victory by liberals that more and more Americans have less and less tolerance for the loss of American lives. Harry may not be one of them, but his type of thinking is becoming more scarce.
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Poor little chimp man has been lied to by all his friends. Turns out all the people he trusts have been lying to him all along.

    Do you really believe that's possible or is it more likely they're all liars in it together? That goes for all the dems who went along for the ride.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now your talking, I can believe that, all politicians are "lying crooked deceitful vermin" they have to be to be successful, they are swine.

    Bush seems to me to be the best of a "bad lot", I still prefer him over those two "Liberal Morons" Gore/Kerry and the social left wing do-gooding holier than thou Party they belong to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  18. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    All of this was part of the Al Quaeda game plan as stated in captured documents, some of which I posted here. They knew that the media and the left can be very effective at discouraging those who are too impatient for success. Impatience and a short view is a typical American defect.

    Taking political joy in the limited success of the enemy's stated game plan is a new low.
     
  19. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You set up a straw man. Buck is not a neocon, topple Saddam foreign policy advocaste, but a traditional conservative. The traditional conservative position reached its most potent expression in the policies of Brent Scowcroft, the last bastion of realpolitik in government. Conservatives for decades fought against foreign entanglements and the liberation of people from tyranny for its own sake, only espousing military intervention when clear and short-term American economic or strategic interests came under threat. They were criticized by liberals for this view. Buckley and Scowcroft would never have suggested that the US depose Saddam Hussein, mostly because they would not have thought that the oppression and genocide of Iraqis was worth the expense and headache of liberation. That thought kept the US from pushing through to Baghdad in 1991, when Scowcroft had Bush 41's ear, and when Saddam could have easily been toppled.

    Go look up neocon in Wikipedia and look at traditional conservatives. VERY different foreign policy philosophies. Buckley has been and continues to be ideologically myopic on foreign policy. He's SO sixties.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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