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Will We Reach This Point

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    Those people aren't upset at the greeting, they're upset by the use of public resources as what they view as an endorsement of religion.

    I thought that was a simple distinction you'd be able to grasp. I gave you too much credit.
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    You finally got it!

    There's also what another poster alluded to -- there are multiple holidays, even for Christians. If I see a friend before one of us goes away before Christmas, I'm likely to wish them Happy Holidays -- meaning both Christmas and New Years. I've always assumed that was pretty common. And if they get upset by that, you know what? They're as*holes.

    btw, your other stuff in this post was pretty funny

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    PatsFan: if it was the first case, he wasn't going to learn anything. If he didn't pick up on your many hints during the meal, he's not going to pick it up from the check and low tip -- I'm sure he just chalked it up to you being cheap. (problem is, a guy like that, if you actually address it explicitly, is also likely to chalk it up to you being a jerk, not to anything on his part)
  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Too bad you're not smart enough to realize how stupid you sound here. "Those people aren't offended by 'Merry Christmas' they just don't want anyone to be allowed to say it and they want all the signs taken down and they want it to be forbidden language in public buildings. Oh, but no they're not offended!" :rolleyes:

    But don't worry, I didn't "give you too much credit." I knew you weren't smart enough to realize how stupid your own argument sounds.
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I don't think the Constitution says what you think it says. You should try reading it sometime, you may actually learn something. But let me save you some suspense... Christine O'Donnell is right: You won't find "separation of church and state" anywhere in that document.
  6. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    :rofl: Quoted for truth! :rofl:
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    Good stuff from a guy who can't understand the distinction b/t having an issue with their view of the government and religion and having an issue with a greeting.
  8. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I didn't say anything about separation of church and state, did I? I said the constitution forbid the state from showing a preference for any one religion - in this case, Christianity.

    And yes, that's exactly what the First Amendment states.


    The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion. Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the federal government. Subsequently, McCollum v. Board of Education, 333 U.S. 203 (1948) incorporated certain select provisions. However, it was not until the middle to late twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by state governments. In the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."[2]

    First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I didn't say you did, did I?
    Actually, no it isn't. Like I said, you should actually read the actual document sometime. I know you're terrified of actually learning something, but it's not as painful as you seem to think it is.

    Go tell me what part of the Constitution says some town hall employee can't put up a "Merry Christmas" sign which offends the left so much. Please feel free to quote the actual Constitution and not some Wikipedia page when you respond. TIA.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    That's exactly what I did, WP. The Supreme Court has already established that a local government cannot do anything which would indicate a preference for one religion over another based upon their interpretation of the first amendment.

    Unless you think you interpret it better than they do.
  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Actually no it isn't. I twice challenged you to quote the Constitution itself and you twice backed down meekly from my challenge. Could it be because you know the Constitution doesn't support your argument anywhere near as much as you pretend it does? What part of "quote the Constitution directly" do you not understand?

    Now please tell me where in the Constitution it says we can't have a "Merry Christmas" sign in town hall. Quote the actualy passage, amendment or article directly from the document itself. If you can.
    Gee, are we now saying the Supreme Court is infallable? Are we not allowed to disagree with the Supreme Court anymore? Are Supreme Court rulings set in stone forever and ever, or can they later be overturned by other Supreme Court rulings and/or laws and amendments? I'll remember that next time you disagree with something they do.

    Don't be so gutless. Quote the part of the Constitution that tells us we can't have a "Merry Christmas" sign in town hall. Put up or shut up.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  12. PatsFanInVa

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    Tell Christine O'Donnell too.

    YouTube - CNN: Christine O'Donnell blanks on First Amendment

    You notice how a whole law school is laughing at her? That. This isn't a jump ball. The phrase "wall of separation between church and state," in fact, comes from Jefferson's 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists. He does not use the phrase to formulate a "new" policy; in fact, the Virginia statute on religious liberty far predates the first amendment. Jefferson uses the phrase descriptively, and it has become the shorthand for the language in the first amendment.

    Establishing one religion over others is not now, nor has it ever been in the last two-plus centuries, some kind of "jump ball" that might be okay and might not be.

    PFnV
  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Apparently you and I both agree that your wife isn't smart enough to understand what "please quote the Constitution directly" means so you had to help her out with it. Well done!

    So now that leads me to my next question. Since when is town hall considered "Congress" and since when is a sign that says "Merry Christmas" considered a law? :confused: :confused:
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Happy Birthday Jesus

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
  15. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Umm..not really...

    Origin of Christmas | The Real Story of Christmas | How it Began


    Oh and what did Jesus say about this whole issue?

    John 18:36

    Mark 12:17

    I guess between what we've learned about what Jefferson said of the issue and what Jesus said, that pretty much wraps up how we should handle this issue...
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Hey wolf boy, you didn't respond to his quoting of the First amendment:

    "Originally Posted by The Freakin First Amendment
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

    So TYPICAL of you to insult and deflect when pinned down.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    As I understand it, Flex, the argument is that the first amendment does not apply to local government. If, for example, Sharon Angle was right (although that just doesn't seem to happen,) and Sharia law had been adopted by the city of Dearborn, MI, this would be consistent with the position that the establishment clause does not apply to local jurisdictions.

    PFnV
  18. PatsFanInVa

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    By the way, if you're wondering about all the interest in repealing the 14th Amendment, I doubt very seriously that it's anything to do with "birthright citizenship" and "anchor babies" and bullcrap of that nature.

    It's about the due process clause of the 14th amendment which basically guarantees that your civil rights aren't abrogated by your state or local government, essentially.

    The due process clause of the 14th is the basis for the doctrine of incorporation, by which most of the civil liberties of the constitution are presently held to apply to local and state government - including those of the first amendment.

    So the problem isn't with a sign hung up in 2010 at your local government office, it's with part of our Constitution, the supreme law of our land, that extends civil rights to state and local government (not just Congress.) Remember all those news clips from the 50s and 60s? That.

    Incorporation Doctrine legal definition of Incorporation Doctrine. Incorporation Doctrine synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    14th Amendment | LII / Legal Information Institute

    I have no idea why they don't get rid of that guy from Texas that advocates secession... Isn't he a governor or something?

    I mean, it looks pretty cut-and-dried to me: advocate secession for Texas, hand over your scepter of office in Texas. Or beef jerky of office, or whatever.

    Boy this Consitution thing is trickier than I thought!

    You can see how the 14th Amendment would be a less helpful bit of the Constitution from the point of view of the self-proclaimed Constitutionalists... basically they want everything in the Constitution except the stuff they don't like... like due process and citizenship for people born here, and the applicability of basic civil rights at the state and local levels.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  19. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    What are you talking about? Post #53 was my response to his post where he quoted the 1st Amendment.

    You know, you're rapidly giving DarrylS a run for his money as my #1 stalker. Keep it up, and you'll pass him on the "pathetic loser stalker" category. :rocker: :rocker:
  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Ah, but we're not talking about a law here, now are we? That was a nice try to slip that in there and hope no one noticed. I mean, I sure one with the limited capabilities of reflexblue didn't notice, but the rest of us did.

    Last time I checked, town hall wasn't "Congress" and a sign was "law."

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