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Will the real fans please stand up


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This is why I often "take the offseason off" here. Too many people who lack any sort of perspective and balance. Too many people who vow to post the same viewpoint over and over, in many threads, until absolutely everyone agrees with them.

Intelligent criticism and discussion is welcomed but is in short supply.
You're one of the smart ones. I wish I could stay away.
 
True. But if I recall correctly, neither the Harrison nor Colvin additions took place on the first day of FA.

To be fair, there aren't many 'big' free agents available this season, Peppers and Dansby and Rolle are already gone, Watson leaving is considered a fait accompli, the Jets traded for a player that can potentially give them the best CB duo in the NFL, and the Patriots passed on the chance to fix the WR3 spot with Boldin. While it's still very early in the process, it's certainly not surprising that people would be pissed off about how day one went.
 
This is why I often "take the offseason off" here. Too many people who lack any sort of perspective and balance. Too many people who vow to post the same viewpoint over and over, in many threads, until absolutely everyone agrees with them.

Intelligent criticism and discussion is welcomed but is in short supply.

It is on short supply... on both ends of the spectrum. There are people here who ***** and complain whenever the Pats don't make a move on whatever free agent is available. There are also people here who can see no wrong in the Pats not making enough moves to retain those free agents that could help at positions of dire need. We've seen both today.

What I don't agree with here is calling anybody that was not happy about the Boldin signing (or lack thereof) a chicken little, bandwagon fan, or any of the above. That is simply not the case. Those names should be saved for the people who just wanted to see any move no matter who is was or how much he cost.

In my opinion, the Pats need to be players in this free agency period. There are simply too many holes on this team to fill through the draft alone. Even if we DID try to fill those holes through the draft, it is highly unlikely that this team would be able to compete at a high level in the 2010 with those rookies. We might have a slam dunk of a rookie here or there, but it simply would not be enough. I would think that much is obvious. The hole that I most wanted to see filled through free agency or trade this offseason was WR. There seemed to be an abundance of talent available at that position which the Pats could use to upgrade Aiken and Stanback. However, for reasons which are now being cited to be about the money, we passed up on what was the best #2 receiver available this offseason, that being Anquan Boldin.

Now, if what Mort is saying is true, and it was about the money and the length of the contract, then people are right in being upset about this move not being made. Boldin could have very easily become a Patriot today and no matter what rinky dink excuse you want to throw out there (wants to be a #1, injury prone... highly overblown, 30 years old, his girlfriend's cousin's sister's uncle's best friend's cousin's brother through marriage slapped a woman in 1965 so Myra probably wouldn't want him, etc.) he would have made this receiving corps, even without Welker, one of the best in the NFL. Now, because the front office apparently didn't want to act, he is in a Ravens uniform playing for the team that blew us out in the Wild Card round of the playoffs last season. Because the team waited, Walter has been re-signed by the Texans. So basically what we are left with now is T.O., Brandon Marshall, Antonio Bryant, Derrick Mason, and a slew of decent receivers such as Kassim Osgood. For our sake, I sincerely hope we sign one of them.

The bottom line is that today two teams in the division, our top competition, made moves to make themselves better. The Dolphins got a prized ILB while the Jets picked up a CB to go along with Revis. Meanwhile, the Pats re-signed some of their own. What we've done is good... to an extent. However, we still aren't even in neutral. While Wilfork, Neal, and TBC may be back, Faulk is still without a new contract and Welker, for all we know, may not be the same guy next season if he even gets on the field before Week 10. In effect, we are still a couple of steps back from what we were prior to the Wild Card game against the Ravens. The division is better than it used to be and we can't afford to sit this one out.

In closing, I don't believe it makes sense to say that anybody who was upset about the Boldin non-signing is not a "real fan". On the contrary, I think it makes people "real fans" to want to see the team get better.
 
They haven't done a thing to improve the team... still don't have a solid pass rusher, no lefft corner, no 3rd receiver

And if you are counting on them filling these positions from the draft and getting some production next year.... you are sadly mistaken ... they got burned by the last 3-4 drafts... they didnt get enough impact players (so much for trading out and ...oh yea the V word = Value). You all sound like Ordway... Mr "I dont wanna be too hard on the Pats because of the partnership"
I have very low expectations..and wouldnt be shocked if they trade down AGAIN!!!

Re signing the players is good... but its not enough... u telling they couldnt Bolden for a late 2nd round pick??? I just have a feeling ppl dont want to deal with BB or dont see the Pats as winners anymore.

Go through the roster and tell me if you feel good about this team... oh btw whos playing OLB???

They havent done a thing to improve the team? The resigned their sack leader from last year, signed their best overall defensive player to a 5 year deal and resigned one of their best OLmen. They definitely have improved their team, do we still have holes to fill yes, but less holes than we started the day with.

The Pats needed to offer more than just a late 2nd for Boldin, the Ravens gave the Cards 3 picks, a 4th and 5th and a 5th next year. Probably would have been the late 2nd and another pick for the Pats. I also think money had a lot to do with it as well, the Pats were not going to restructure his deal before this season and I think thats where the negotiations stopped. I back the Pats on this decision. There are still other WRs out there that would definitely improve the Pats team.

Their top needs (not in order) pass rusher, TE, WR and CB. All of these can definitely be addressed this off season. The simple solution is resigning Bodden, but letting him go and talk to other teams that doesnt look like it will happen. Remember how deep the draft is this year, with 4 picks in the top 53 you will definitely improve your team through that. Just because we still have needs after day 1 of FA doesnt mean that we need to panic, the season doesnt start next week...
 
There's quite a difference from being a little bummed about not getting Boldin to the guys who trash BB and the FO for not making the move they demand is the right one and voicing their doom and gloom all over the place. I'm a fan of the team, if some of them chicken littles really feel we are that doomed in March, why waste so much time shouting it all over the forum unless you are a troll or a miserable prick, ya know?

We can all (well the sane people at least) agree that the Patriots front office has infinitely more knowledge about all of this stuff than us. It's not that the "homers" don't see anything wrong with anything they do, but we understand that we simply don't have the credentials or knowledge to effectively argue against the decisions of a proven front office.

We are willing to give the benefit of the doubt more frequently than others because we understand that what we know is only the surface of all the information available to the people making decisions. I would have loved to see Boldin here but I am willing to accept the likelihood that BB is making the right decision for the franchise or at the very minimum trully believes he is.

Surely BB will make bad decisions but I don't know that we can effectively determine exactly which ones are trully bad. We can armchair it up, discuss the possibilities, voice our disappointment and all the fun stuff. But what us "homers" get tired of is the incessant exaggerations and bashing of those in charge of a proven system.

I LIKE the football dicussions on this board. I HATE the chicken little doom and gloom we are doomed crapola. Keep things in perspective, don't exaggerate every little thing and let's talk football!
 
I would be interested in hearing if people believe there will be a salary cap in 2011 and (if so) what the cap will be set at. I think that add some perspective on why people like/dislike the Pats salary moves.

My opinion...there will be a cap in 2011+ and it will be significantly less than the cap in 2009. In that context, I'm pretty happy getting the core players signed (including Brady and hopefully Bodden at a reasonable #2 CB rate) and filling the holes with short-term vets and high draft picks...including the ones in 2009 that we haven't even unwrapped yet.

If you think there won't be a cap or that it will increase at a level comparable to the last CBA, then I can understand why seeing Peppers and Boldin on other teams would be frustrating. I just can't see the owners going through all this labor strife and just destroy small market teams (no cap) or end up right where they left off (same cap).
 
In my opinion, the Pats need to be players in this free agency period. There are simply too many holes on this team to fill through the draft alone.
Agreed, but that doesn't mean they need to be filled on day 1. Day 1 signings are rarely a ticket to the SB, they certainly weren't this past season.

Now, if what Mort is saying is true, and it was about the money and the length of the contract, then people are right in being upset about this move not being made.
I think too many people say "uncapped? Spend spend spend!". But it's not realistic to expect the Pats to abandon their calculation of value, and the way they have approached free agency in the past doesn't make much of what happened today very surprising.
 
It is on short supply... on both ends of the spectrum. There are people here who ***** and complain whenever the Pats don't make a move on whatever free agent is available. There are also people here who can see no wrong in the Pats not making enough moves to retain those free agents that could help at positions of dire need. We've seen both today.

What I don't agree with here is calling anybody that was not happy about the Boldin signing (or lack thereof) a chicken little, bandwagon fan, or any of the above. That is simply not the case. Those names should be saved for the people who just wanted to see any move no matter who is was or how much he cost.

In my opinion, the Pats need to be players in this free agency period. There are simply too many holes on this team to fill through the draft alone. Even if we DID try to fill those holes through the draft, it is highly unlikely that this team would be able to compete at a high level in the 2010 with those rookies. We might have a slam dunk of a rookie here or there, but it simply would not be enough. I would think that much is obvious. The hole that I most wanted to see filled through free agency or trade this offseason was WR. There seemed to be an abundance of talent available at that position which the Pats could use to upgrade Aiken and Stanback. However, for reasons which are now being cited to be about the money, we passed up on what was the best #2 receiver available this offseason, that being Anquan Boldin.

Now, if what Mort is saying is true, and it was about the money and the length of the contract, then people are right in being upset about this move not being made. Boldin could have very easily become a Patriot today and no matter what rinky dink excuse you want to throw out there (wants to be a #1, injury prone... highly overblown, 30 years old, his girlfriend's cousin's sister's uncle's best friend's cousin's brother through marriage slapped a woman in 1965 so Myra probably wouldn't want him, etc.) he would have made this receiving corps, even without Welker, one of the best in the NFL. Now, because the front office apparently didn't want to act, he is in a Ravens uniform playing for the team that blew us out in the Wild Card round of the playoffs last season. Because the team waited, Walter has been re-signed by the Texans. So basically what we are left with now is T.O., Brandon Marshall, Antonio Bryant, Derrick Mason, and a slew of decent receivers such as Kassim Osgood. For our sake, I sincerely hope we sign one of them.

The bottom line is that today two teams in the division, our top competition, made moves to make themselves better. The Dolphins got a prized ILB while the Jets picked up a CB to go along with Revis. Meanwhile, the Pats re-signed some of their own. What we've done is good... to an extent. However, we still aren't even in neutral. While Wilfork, Neal, and TBC may be back, Faulk is still without a new contract and Welker, for all we know, may not be the same guy next season if he even gets on the field before Week 10. In effect, we are still a couple of steps back from what we were prior to the Wild Card game against the Ravens. The division is better than it used to be and we can't afford to sit this one out.

In closing, I don't believe it makes sense to say that anybody who was upset about the Boldin non-signing is not a "real fan". On the contrary, I think it makes people "real fans" to want to see the team get better.

Thanks Kontra. I appreciate your support.
 
I'm not going to lie its too hard to use the computer standing up.
 
You're one of the smart ones. I wish I could stay away.

I've been hanging out in the religious and political forum. Not sure which is worse, actually.
 
Agreed, but that doesn't mean they need to be filled on day 1. Day 1 signings are rarely a ticket to the SB, they certainly weren't this past season.


I think too many people say "uncapped? Spend spend spend!". But it's not realistic to expect the Pats to abandon their calculation of value, and the way they have approached free agency in the past doesn't make much of what happened today very surprising.

In a free agent class like this, it is beneficial to act as swiftly and as decisively as possible. As for the second paragraph, not sure whether or not that is directed at me or if it is just an open statement. If it is directed at me, that is nowhere near what I've said or have been saying. I'm one of the people who feels that the Pats should operate as if there is a cap in place.
 
In a free agent class like this, it is beneficial to act as swiftly and as decisively as possible.

A free agent class like what? Players entertain offers from everyone, they don't just jump at the team that offers the quickest. Just because other teams throw money out the windows right away doesn't make it wise for every team to try that.

Boldin is the only close one right now that I can understand the second guessing.
 
You are the most unusual Jet Fan to visit this sight.
You are shockingly likeable too. Just crazy. :D
There is nothing likable about a Jets fan.. ever :p

What the Patriots tilt into free agency suggests to me is that BB believes there is enough quality in the current squad especially the younger players. The FO is going to stick to their methods and source guys who fit the Patriots the best and are cost effective.

I was hopeful of bringing in some big names but not to the detriment of team balance.
 
I love these threads that belittle people who prefer not to drink the kool aid. I'm standing up, and from here I can see an organization that is merely doing "business as usual"-- doggedly sticking to what it sees as a sound business model.

I'm starting to think that "sticking with the formula" is more important to the Pats than winning more Super Bowls. Many will say this is a good thing because it jives with what they learned in business school and has served the Pats well in the past. But what they also need to consider is that the Pats formula for success may now be a formula for mediocrity and may need to be re-vamped a bit to adapt to the reality of the current state of the team. One of the main components of the "formula" has been good cap management. Now that component is far less important, at least for one year.

Folks, we need some playmakers, especially on defense and the reality is that the Pats are going to have to pay up one way or another to get them. Avoiding high risk moves is not a recipe for success at this time IMO.
 
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I thought the Patriots had a productive day
 
Ian, bring back rep - just don't make it anonymous. :woot:

Question sure, but there has been such negativity lately it's amazing. There is a difference between acknowledging the need for players and and acting like the Pats suddenly suck because they didn't act on day one of free agency, and the active dislike toward the team that is become more and more prevalent.

Fan is short for fanatic. You're absolutely right. And we want our team to be the best. That is not the same as undercutting everything the teams does and finding something wrong with everything they do.

There is a huge difference between questioning and trashing. And what has been going on has been trashing.

At work, Pats fans get together and talk about the team, what they should do and how great they should be next year, etc etc.

That's what fans do. Get together and talk about their team. This forum is a place for a LOT of fans to talk about their team. But the internet being what it is, people who are not fans, or are perpetual whiners and complainers, also come here.

In a face-to-face environment, these PITAs would be excluded from conversations because no one likes constant complaining and whining. And if the was a Jets fan who was rude and insulting and behaved like Ramon, he would also not be tolerated.

In a face-to-face environment, all the whiners would hang around together because everyone else would ignore them.

But online, it is different. So we have these perpetual PITAs who have been part of the group for a long time. No one could really call them Pats fans, or any fans. They see themselves are 'realists' and call fans homers. They just don't understand what it is to have a team they love, win or lose, year after year.

It's only a mild annoyance until the whiners become so vocal they outnumber the fans. This happened last couple of years, when people went off the deep end with each loss. They acted like the Pats should NEVER lose a game, that no team should ever have a 100 yard rusher or no QB should ever complete a TD against up, and were furious when any of theose things occurred. Even victories were treated like, "We were lucky with the way we played."

I can understand the OP. It is tiresome to wade through all the posts by people who actively dislike the Pats

I guess you can think of it like family. Fans treat the team like extended family. Even when you don't like them, you love them because they are family.
 
Of course a proportion of Jets fans resemble fungus, so they would be unaffected.

in reference, I hear that Gunnails is a fun guy
:itsok: So is Tickle Me Elmo, but like all Japanese Rock Pet equivalents, you wind up putting them in the toy chest/attic/Salvation Army bin/dumpster when you've outgrown giggling acrylic fluff. Thus we can understand the woman. ;)
 
I would be interested in hearing if people believe there will be a salary cap in 2011 and (if so) what the cap will be set at. I think that add some perspective on why people like/dislike the Pats salary moves.

My opinion...there will be a cap in 2011+ and it will be significantly less than the cap in 2009.

I think that there will be a lockout in 2011. But if there is not a lockout I think that the cap will be higher than it was in 2009.
 
===================================================

Ha Ha, the jokes on you I get plenty of passionate affection, when ever she lets me.

Dude, your dog doesn't count. ;)
 
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