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Will Pats join in union salute?


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I can see both sides. If the players want to show union solidarity, I'm fine with that. But as a fan I resent having union politics shoved at me when I'm paying the costs for the venue. I admit to little sympathy for either side, billionaire (asset based, cash whatever) owners vs instant multi-millionaire players. As a business guy I really don't like seeing untried rooks making the huge bucks. As a fan and sympathetic to the multi-millionaire vets I'd like to see vets get more of that money. As a business guy I see no way that the players can keep such a large % of the revenue while owners take the business risk.

Nobody thought the Telecom Bubble of 1999 would burst so abruptly. Few were ready for the 2008 RE bubble to burst. Fewer still for the banks and financial firms to cave. The lesson is that exponential growth eventually has to stop, most often quite unexpectedly and quite abruptly. Mo is correct in saying that the sudden, "unexpected" as AP business writers love to say these days, implosion of a franchise or two could wreak havoc on the league.
 
Nah, it always comes back. They aren't the game, just the guys playing it at this level at this moment. Other guys will play when they are gone. Might be ugly for a while, but all those college kids who make millions for their schools will be coming along and fans will embrace them just like they have the current transient batch of millionaire ham and eggers. The guys like Kraft who grew the pie will still be baking, in part because he was smart enough to negotiate that the vast majority of revenue will still come to the owners who don't have to pay the players. And as in '87 when a lot more was on the line for players than a couple of % share they will come back because they can't walk away from the money.

Well, a possible armageddon scenario would be a multi-year lockout during which the league continues to draft college players, and bring in UFL/CFL players as replacements. Eventually the owners would be able to permanently replace all current players.

However, what happens to league revenues during that time frame? How many franchises are marginal right now, and would go bust with a significant revenue drop-off over a multi-year period?
 
Well, a possible armageddon scenario would be a multi-year lockout during which the league continues to draft college players, and bring in UFL/CFL players as replacements. Eventually the owners would be able to permanently replace all current players.

However, what happens to league revenues during that time frame? How many franchises are marginal right now, and would go bust with a significant revenue drop-off over a multi-year period?

One of them is in our very own division...
 
Well, a possible armageddon scenario would be a multi-year lockout during which the league continues to draft college players, and bring in UFL/CFL players as replacements. Eventually the owners would be able to permanently replace all current players.

However, what happens to league revenues during that time frame? How many franchises are marginal right now, and would go bust with a significant revenue drop-off over a multi-year period?

The present TV deals are locked in through 2012-13. You know how much less expensive those replacement players would be? And as long as there are games being played there will be shared TV revenue. But it won't come to that because even DeMaurice admitted several weeks ago there is no stomach for a work stoppage within his constituency. The over/under on games lost if there even is a lockout is around 9... If they cannot agree before next March the union will therefore likely decertify before a lockout is declared. That means life (and paychecks) goes on as if nothing is happening and the owners best offer on the table becomes the defacto CBA while the players persue court challenges to specific rules and terms and once they get rulings those go to appeal....it could last years, during which time they could always get a deal done with a new union.
 
I'd say the players wouldn't join in the salute, but I wouldn't mind if they did. I don't have any problem with either side trying to improve their bargaining position. This is just somewhat more public than the strategies the owners employ to advance their position (e.g. colluding to keep salaries down in the uncapped year).

I say the players take most of the risk, they're the ones who aren't walking at the end of their career. I can't see how anyone can think the average player has the better deal right now, what with 4-6 year rookie contracts when the average career is, what, 3 years? And essentially nonguaranteed contracts for all but maybe the top 5% of players, while TV contracts and revenue sharing guarantee every owners' fees? And injury settlements in a dangerous career? And primary medical support (trainers) controlled by the employer?

I'm an employer and I wouldn't want my staff protesting me, nor do I give them reason to; however, as people say, this isn't a regular work situation.

And I'm sure the owners have the same issue about not being able to walk away because of the money. They aren't buying a franchise if they're going to lose money. The difference seems to be that in a lockout they get paid.
 
I don't think they will. It just doesn't seem the Pats style. I will be disappointed.
 
spartacus.jpg

And maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves. Spartacus

Like other posters I don't see that one is in the right or the other in the wrong - it takes two to tango, and there should be some give and take on both sides.
 
The Owners have had to say the CBA we signed, was simply too rich, and we can't afford it. The CAP has to at least stabilize. So no more almost automatic raises.

The subsequent news that 11 Teams may have blackouts because they can't sell out their stadiums is ominous. The golden geese (the fans), are being strangled.

Revenues are not growing any more, and may actually be declining. All TV programs evenutally age and lose audiences as crowds just tire of them, and turn their attention elsewhere. It has been a long time but the networks are not healthy, and the bloom may be off the TV football Rose.

With this Union Solidarity stuff, I see major labor turmoil coming up.

The owners are being forced to the position of saying, not only must the CAP be stabilized, it must shrink outright. Step right up, and re-negotiate your existing contract down. That will add a novel meaning to the term "re-negotiate".

That will also go over like a lead baloon. It's the solid citizens who play hard; and earn their money who will be most bitter, about being asked to take a paycut, or lose an anticipated raise. Like... oh say... Logan Mankins. The stupid, criminal, prima donnas won't understand; they never will, until cut. TO sobered up after a few months, when he found that no one wanted him, no antics or not.

I think the 2011 season is becoming very problematical.
 
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I think the fans so do something to let the players and owners know hey we want the damn games not the BS you all pull.

I'd suggest a stay away. Don't watch any of the games on tv or the staduim and don't give the NFL.com any hits for one week of games there are so many other sources of information about what happened in the games that we don't reall lose much but the owners and players do
 
No sympathy for the players here; not when they've let the retirees whose coattails they're riding consistently get screwed over. If they can't be bothered to look after their own, then I don't really care what happens to them. And besides, we all know that if it comes to a work stoppage, that's a war of attrition that the owners are guaranteed to win.
 
The owners take all the "risk?"

A select few of the owners' grandparents took a big risk way back in the day. These days, with the shared revenue streams from their ~$10 billion dollar TV deal, the billions of merchandising money, and the millions upon millions more of licensing fees (for every truck, candy bar, airline, and erection medication that wan't to be the "official _____ of the NFL,") not to mention the gate, the amount of "risk" the owners are exposed to is pretty effing minimal.

Owning an NFL franchise is a license to print money -- and this is true no matter if your team wins championships or not, and (due to the revenue sharing) not as relative to team market size as you might think.

No, today's owners don't assume much risk, and if their franchises are floundering, in every case, there's a mountain of evidence showing why its owners gross mismanagement at fault. And for every franchise that's losing value, there is a line of prospective buyers a mile long.

Meanwhile, you want to talk about risk. You think the players don't assume risk? On a dollar-to-dollar level, maybe not. But in terms of the percentage of prospective value, it's not even close. First of all, they have to make a choice when they're 15, 16 or 17 whether or not they're going to try to make a go at being pro. You need to work your ass off, hone your skills, and sell yourself to college recruiters. If that works, next comes a 4-year unpaid apprenticeship where you're practicing your trade, billions are being made off it, and you don't see any of it ('cept you, Reggie.) In return, if you're gifted enough to not need to spend all of your time practicing and working out, you are allowed to try to get an education -- but never, ever to the detriment of your performance on the field. Then, after that, instead of being able to shop yourself to the prospective employer whom you believe offers you the optimal balance of immediate financial security and the best fit for a chance for a bright future, you to wait and find out what one employer you can negotiate with, whether you think he appreciates your abilities or not, whether you think the organization is going to develop your talents well or not, and then move wherever they're located.

If you are one of top fraction of a percent of college players trying to make it into the NFL that year, you will be handsomely paid for this. About 20 more guys will at least achieve a certain level of comfort. The other 99% have to spend the next handful of years playing a game where they can suffer a career ending or at least seriously devaluing injury on any play, so that at the end of their initial contract, they can finally get their share of the pie.

I'm sorry, but it's just insulting to argue on the basis of risk.

Also, cut out the cheap appeal to emotion by referring to the players as "millionaires." What's that got to do with anything? In a free market capitalist system, you're worth isn't determined by how much people feel you "should" be making, it's determined by how irreplaceable you are at a job and how much money can be made off your work. In the NFL, the players are irreplaceable. They are what is known in the entertainment industry (of which the NFL is a part) as "the talent," and as such, are themselves the very bricks of gold on which the league builds its fortune. As I said before, there's no shortage of rich individuals or financial institutions who wouldn't jump at the chance to replace the Al Davises of the world.

The players are the product. THe owners are fungible.
 
There are some here who sound like the Real Estate Brokers and house flippers who said the Prices will always go up. Its a licence to print money. Or that there is long line of bigger suckers we always can sell out to.

Until there weren't. :(
 
Justifiably so. What happened in New Orleans this past Thursday was a deliberately provocative act by the players, signaling their intransigence, undoubtedly intended to force a showdown. Thus, whatever happens in 2011 is completely their responsibility.
Huh????? Sticking a finger up is a DELIBERATE PROVOCATIVE ACT???? That MAY be the dumbest thing I have heard all week.....WAIT now it's ALL the player's responsibility in total??? ALL because of that?....new lows in common sense here.
 
The differences between the owners and players concerns the division of revue between players and owners. The differences concern retirees, health care, and the players at the lower end of the nfl, those whose total career is a couple of years.

In then end, I understand that there are fans who side with the owners and would like the players to have less. I understand that there are fans that would continue to send large subsidies to owners who mismanage their businesses.

I STRONGLY support the Kraft's and yes the Polian's and other top owners. I also STRONGLY support the players.

Do you understand that if there are missed games, the fans won't pay for those games. The players will receive nothing and the owners will receive TV monies (to be repaid later).
Sums up a LOT of what is going on.....quick and concise
 
One of these days a franchise is going to go belly up
Oh really? The most successful professional sports league in the country, with no frachise going "belly up" anytime in the modern era, but you think it is something that is going to happen one of these days?

Can't say I agree with you there. We will never see an NFL team go belly up in our lifetimes. Sure, we may see some move to greener pastures (I'm looking at you, Jacksonville). But the idea of an NFL team going bankrupt is laughable.
 
There should be some kind of salute from the fans to show our unison against any lockout/strike by the union or the owners.:mad:
You'd be amazed at some of the statements that so-called fans in here have said regarding the rights that other fans have.

"Fans watching football is NOT a RIGHT. It's a privilege." - DaBruinz, 6/20/10

And then there's this gem from the same poster. I swear I am not making this up:

"You have yet to explain how a lockout "craps" on the fans. From what I see, a lockout HELPS the fans because it would save them thousands of dollars by NOT having to go to the games, by NOT having to pay for Tickets (Regular or Season), by NOT having to pay for outrageous parking, by not having to pay for grossly over-priced food and watered down beer. Seems to me that the fans GAIN a lot back into their pockets." - DaBruinz
 
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However, what happens to league revenues during that time frame? How many franchises are marginal right now, and would go bust with a significant revenue drop-off over a multi-year period?
Absolutely zero franchises fit that definition.
 
Wolfpack; said:
Absolutely zero franchises fit that definition.

And even if there were, any owner on the brink could sell for more than their franchise's present valuation to an interested party with deeper pockets and a better business plan.

The existence of franchises like the Patriots and Redskins show that the potential value of a well-run NFL franchise is so high that the loser owners --
the Wilsons, Browns, Fords, Weavers, and Davises of the league -- sell out and cash in in on the hard work and acumen of the Krafts, Jones and Snyders.

But they don't. They want to keep their teams and run them the same way they did when the players were poorly compensated cattle who had to keep "real jobs" in the off-season to pay the bills.

And unlike a player who's no longer pulling his weight, the coaches can't cut the owners and bring in someone who can handle the job.
 
And even if there were, any owner on the brink could sell for more than their franchise's present valuation to an interested party with deeper pockets and a better business plan.
Amen.
And unlike a player who's no longer pulling his weight, the coaches can't cut the owners and bring in someone who can handle the job.
That would be great if you could cut an owner. Snyder would be long gone. This reminds me of an Onion article I read some time ago. :D :D

Dallas Cowboys Release Jerry Jones | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Dallas Cowboys Release Jerry Jones

IRVING, TEXAS—In an attempt to cut the franchise's losses and "move forward in a positive direction," the Dallas Cowboys severed ties with controversial owner Jerry Jones Monday, ending their tumultuous 20-year relationship with the divisive figure.

According to sources within the Cowboys organization, the decision to release Jones was influenced by the lack of any playoff victories in more than 12 years, the owner's distracting sideline antics, and his selfish, "me first" attitude, which many said was having a cancerous effect on the clubhouse.
 
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Absolutely zero franchises fit that definition.

Ralph Wilson's Bills and Jacksonville have financial issues that if stressed would cause major problems. The likely solutions would involve new owners at new sites, but problematical at the least were there to be no games.

It's foolish hubris to believe that anything is invulnerable to disaster. The likellihood is debatable by rational people the complete invulnerability is not.
 
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