Will PATS be better or worst than last year?

[Joker]

there's only one way to find out...play the season and see...they made the AFC Championship game last season..if they don't this season it's worse?...if they go 14-2 and lose their first playoff game the team is worse??

I never got the point of these better/worse(not worst BTW) exercises.

The team could be much better and still not be good enough to beat other teams who improved even more....that's why they play the games

 

[patfanken]

OFFENSE - worse

WR - worse
We can make believe all we want. Amendola and the rooks will have a difficult time producing what the WR's did last year.

TE - better
Hopefully, but how much better depends on the health of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Ballard.

RB - worse
While Woodhead has been "replaced", I don't see his production being replaced in the passing game. HOWEVER, Washington and Blount could indeed give us a net plus.

OL - worse
We lost Thomas. He played half of the offensive reps last year. He was starter quality. We have elevated McDonald (who was here last year). If everyone is healthy all year, this won't matter.

Can't quite understand your gloomy lack of optimism on the offense.

WR - I can see that one would mark this area as worse - Even though the WR corps is now much bigger, faster, and stronger than last year's group, Its also iunproven and more injury prone than the 2 main contributors we lost (Welker/Lloyd) - No question there is a higher upside here, but also no question, there are a lot of questions about the group that will only be answered when they get on the field.

RB - worse? Ridley and Vareen are just now coming into their primes. Woodhead has been replaced by a RB who has an even better pedigree in Washington, and Blount could be the big back we lacked last year. (though for the record, I am not a fan of that trade). Don't tell me that just the loss of Danny Woodhead dropped your opinion of the RB group to worse. I loved the kid too, but both Vareen and Washington could actually be better.

OL - worse???????!!!! - this is the one which really made me post, because it makes absolutely NO sense. How could the offensive line NOT be considered better.

LT - Solder is now going to enter the 2nd year at LT. I expect him to be better.

LG - Mankins is healthier now than he has been the last two years. I expect him to be better.

C- Wendell, like Solder is going into the 2nd year as a starter, so while I don't expect him to make a physical improvement, there is no doubt that the year's experience will help.

RG - I'm hoping it will be Cannon, who is bigger stronger, and more athletic that Connolly, but even if it isn't Connolly is a solid NFL starter. We certainly don't lose anything there.

RT- Like Mankins, Volmer is going into this season healthier than he's been the last 2 years, So why wouldn't I expect better play from this position.

Depth - McDonnald, and Connolly/Cannon provide great depth for the interior OL given all have had successful starting experience. The addition of Stivec gives a proven veteran OT that we didn't have last season, as well as a more experience Cannon if he's not the starter.

C'MON MAN - you really want us to believe that merely losing Thomas makes the OL worse? Even you don't really believe that. Admit it, MG, you just did that to help make your greater point that the offense is going to be worse this season......

....and I'm sure we will argue that one in another thread.

 

[lurker1965]

Definitions please. Is 9-7 but winning the Super Bowl better or worse? How about 15-1 but one and done? Winning in close low scoring games or winning close shootouts?

Yes, they will be better except in ways they are worse.:bricks:

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Overall, we might be better. We are likely to have a better offense and a worse offense. This can be OK.

SPECIAL TEAMS - better
We have added one of the best kick returners in the NFL.

DEFENSE - better

DL - better
We have added Armstead and Kelly. We have lost Scott.

LB - better
We have added Collins and Fletcher.

Secondary - better
A. Smith should help. We MIGHT get 2013 help from Logan OR Hanson OR Dowling. However, this is all gravy.

OFFENSE - worse

WR - worse
We can make believe all we want. Amendola and the rooks will have a difficult time producing what the WR's did last year.

TE - better
Hopefully, but how much better depends on the health of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Ballard.

RB - worse
While Woodhead has been "replaced", I don't see his production being replaced in the passing game. HOWEVER, Washington and Blount could indeed give us a net plus.

OL - worse
We lost Thomas. He played half of the offensive reps last year. He was starter quality. We have elevated McDonald (who was here last year). If everyone is healthy all year, this won't matter.

Special Teams
Leon Washington at only 30 years old and Julian Edelman give us two premiere return men.

DEFENSE - A lot Better

DL - Better
Chandler Jones should emerge to as an elite-Jason Pierre-Paul type talent, Justin Francis will shine with more playing time, and the rookie Buchanon looks to be solid in contributions and depth. Additionally, Rob Ninkovich and Jamie Collins could take a few snaps in special situations at the edge end with their fingers in the ground. And last but not least we have more players like Armstead that can play DE and DT/NT. As for the tackle position, with the underrated signing of Tommy Kelly, Vince will be kept fresh for most games and as mentioned before, Armstead and Love are good depth and options.

LB - Better
Are you kidding me? Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Don'ta Hightower, Rob Ninkovich, .. along with the signing of young phenom OLB Jamie Collins and LB Dane Fletcher returning to health.. a lot better corps this year.

Secondary - Better
Adrian Wilson can still play at a very high level, brings an attitude to the secondary. Tavon Wilson could emerge, and Ras-I Dowling is hopefully going to stay healthy this season. Additionally, the re-signing of Aqib Talib is huge as he will now be with us at least a full season. And don't sleep on the re-signing of Kyle Arrington as well, as he is great in that nickel spot. Duron Harmon and Logan Ryans also both sound like two promising prospects

OFFENSE - Better

RB - More depth to an already stout and loaded backfield bursting with talent. And to me, Vereen is an upgrade over Woodhead. Many people don't see it but I do. He is more crisp, faster, better runner and more functional. LeGarrett Blount on the other hand, all I have to say about him is watch his hightlights ... Stevan Ridley is becoming premiere and Leon Washington, well he is pretty much legendary in space. I'm thinking him and Vereen dual threats on screens, hitches, draws, and underneath passes. One of, if not the most multi-dimensional backfield in the league, and did I forget about Brandon Bolden? I don't think opposing defenses will.....

WR - Better
Yeah I said it, better. Think about it, what was so hard last year about shutting down Wes over the middle and taking away Brandon Lloyd outside the numbers, mainly because Lloyd underachieved so much last year compared to what I know he can do. Now you have rookie WR's that are not your typical rookie WR's. Lately, these guys have been coming out of college pro ready (AJ Green, Julio Jones, Hakeem Nicks) and have more physical gifts, natural abilities than we've ever seen. Aaron Dobson has every single attribute you can think of other than blazing speed, in which I still think he is deceptively fast, check his 40 time and compare to others. Josh Boyce on the other hand is a quicker, more athletic David Patten who can run crisp routes and burn people both inside and out. Donald Jones, you still don't know what you have in him, could be a good one, loads of potential and if Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman can stay healthy, then we are talking about the deepest and the most talented WR corps since the 2007 season. Mainly because Danny can do what was did, and then more as far as an outside game.. and Julian is pretty much dangerous at shadowing Amendola and or Welker. And lets all make posters for "TJ Moe" making sure that he makes the team, as he adds his own dimensions as well. We simply have more speed, options and depth at WR now than last year.

TE's - better
Besides the two best in the NFL looking to be getting healthy soon, we now added solid pass catcher Jake Ballard ito the fold, and rookie TE Zach Sudfield with hands and size, and speed. And honestly, Hoo-man I've seen pull in some long receptions here and there.

OL- Better
Resigned Sebastion Vollmer, and added depth

 

[TriplecHamp]

Defensively they'll be much better, offensively they'll be different. I don't know if this team will put up the numbers last years team did but I think they'll be more dangerous in the long run with Dobson and Amendola. I think they'll have more big plays through the air and rely a little less on yac.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I will say the exact same. Heath will be key with this team as always heading into playoffs

Still hate our WR situation but nothing they can do about it now

 

[PATS16N0]

If we stay healthy this year I'm confident in another ring.
I know that kind of optimism is frowned upon, but a healthy Patriot team is more dangerous than the league might currently give us credit for.

With a healthy Gronk we could be +2 rings.

It's kind of a lousy deal when you keep getting to the end and your most dangerous red zone threat isn't available.

 

[JR4]

"Will PATS be better or worst than last year?"

I voted YES because they most likely will be better or worse.

Yeah I blew it. There isn't a way edit poll question/answers is there?

question should have been:
Will PATS be better than last year?

Yes === better
No === worse

 

[AzPatsFan]

In analyzing better or worse, the Defense should be under the mcroscope as the overall weakest squad. The Offense was prolific itself, and could still drop a couple of positions and still be very good. So we concentrate there.

Defensive Line:
Strengths in 2012; Stoping the run up the middle and on the edge. Better but not great pass rush principally from two people, Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovitch and occasionally Cunningham. Lack: more pass rushers and lack of interior pass rush.

Strengths in 2013: Stoping the run up the middle and on the edge. Better than 2012 pass rush from more mature C Jones Rob Nkinkovkitch and Jamie Collins and occasionally from Cunningham and Bequette. Much better interior pass rush likely from Tom Kelly and Armand Armstead.

Linebackers:

Strengths in 2012: New LB troika for a generation Mayo, Spikes and Hightower proved good against run; little depth from ST players. Poor coverage from LBs.

Strengths in 2013: Same troika but with a year's experience playing together. Better depth with Fletcher, Collins and possibility of Ninkovitch availability. Money player Adrian Wilson and/or Collins could provide coverage LB to fill that glaring hole.

Corner backs:

Strengths in 2012: Found a starting combination outside and inside with Talib RCB, Dennard LCB, and Arrington at Star. Moved DM to FS Disappointed in P Chung play. Cole is a ST only, not depth.

Strengths in 2013: Same starting combo Talib, Dennard, and Arrington, But augmented outside by Ras-I, and Logan. Could free Dennard for Star competiton/depth with Arrington. Dennard's size seems more suited inside. Overall depth seems better.

Safety:

Strength in 2012: McCourty move to FS seems good. Gregory merely OK and out of position at SS. T. Wilson faced rookie problems but stuck. Not a lot of depth.

Strenths in 2013: McCourty Gregory team established. Adrian Wilson assumes leadership for Money or Big Nickle previously unfilled position. Should be able to shut off TEs now. T. Wilson is another year experienced for SS/FS. Depth augmented by Duron Harmon and A Wilson.

Summary: 2013 Defense looks more capable on DL; more capable at LB including LB coverage, with more depth. CBs look to be settling in and depth appears better. Safety problem finally appears to be solved or becoming so.

Better DLs, LBs, CBs and Ss means more capable, better Defense in 2013.

 

[mgteich]

How exactly does returning Vollmer make us better than last year?

The depth we signed is competition for backup OT. We lost an OG that played have the offensive reps.

OL- Better
Resigned Sebastion Vollmer, and added depth

 

[mgteich]

Before we start, I will note that my OVERALL assessment was that our 12-4 team was going to better than last year.

The offense has pluses and minuses. I believe that RB and OL are small minuses. They both could definitely be improvements if Washington, Blount and Cannon step us as you suggest they will.

The more major pluses and minuses are at receiver. We HOPE for a major plus at TE with better health. This cannot be counted on, given that all 3 are recovering from injuries. As far as wide receiver. We had a huge amount of production for our wide receivers, Absent very dark rose colored glasses, AS OF NOW, the best estimate has to be that their production will be down from last year. Will Amendola really produce more than Welker? Will Dobson/Boyce really produce more than Lloyd/Branch? They may. Or, their production may be made up by the TE's.

=================
RUNNING BACK
It is fine to hope that Washington and Blount (who you didn't want) will make up for the loss of Woodhead. That may happen. I hope that we keep both on the 53 and prove that you are right.

OFFENSIVE LINE
We are returning the same starting line. They had injuries in the past. What you seem to be suggesting is that since there will be no injuries this year, they will be better. Again, I hope that you are correct.

You ignore the loss of Thomas because you seem to presume the health of the OL as well as the conversion of Cannon to OG. I certainly agree that if Cannon is good enough to start at RG, we have a BETTER OL. However, I have no confidence at all that this will happen.

I always applaud vet OL coming to camp. Occasionally one actually makes the team. We badly needed OT help before Vollmer re-signed. As it is, we have Vollmer, Solder, Cannon and Zusevics. All these in addition to Svitek.

So, for me, unless Cannon is truly shifting to OG, we are short an OG and have an extra OT.

So, I'm simply saying that the loss of Thomas as an OG is more important than the gain in getting competition at backup OT in Svitek.

Can't quite understand your gloomy lack of optimism on the offense.

RB - worse? Ridley and Vareen are just now coming into their primes. Woodhead has been replaced by a RB who has an even better pedigree in Washington, and Blount could be the big back we lacked last year. (though for the record, I am not a fan of that trade). Don't tell me that just the loss of Danny Woodhead dropped your opinion of the RB group to worse. I loved the kid too, but both Vareen and Washington could actually be better.

OL - worse???????!!!! - this is the one which really made me post, because it makes absolutely NO sense. How could the offensive line NOT be considered better.

LT - Solder is now going to enter the 2nd year at LT. I expect him to be better.

LG - Mankins is healthier now than he has been the last two years. I expect him to be better.

C- Wendell, like Solder is going into the 2nd year as a starter, so while I don't expect him to make a physical improvement, there is no doubt that the year's experience will help.

RG - I'm hoping it will be Cannon, who is bigger stronger, and more athletic that Connolly, but even if it isn't Connolly is a solid NFL starter. We certainly don't lose anything there.

RT- Like Mankins, Volmer is going into this season healthier than he's been the last 2 years, So why wouldn't I expect better play from this position.

Depth - McDonnald, and Connolly/Cannon provide great depth for the interior OL given all have had successful starting experience. The addition of Stivec gives a proven veteran OT that we didn't have last season, as well as a more experience Cannon if he's not the starter.

C'MON MAN - you really want us to believe that merely losing Thomas makes the OL worse? Even you don't really believe that. Admit it, MG, you just did that to help make your greater point that the offense is going to be worse this season......

....and I'm sure we will argue that one in another thread.

 

[Rob0729]

I firmly believe the Pats will be better on defense, possibly be much better. Their offense is going to take a step back. Too soon to tell how much each will do and whether the defense will improve more than the offense takes a step back and visa versa.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

Record wise I think we'll be the same, but physically, mentally, and youth wise, I think we'll be much better.

 

[ausbacker]

Can't quite understand your gloomy lack of optimism on the offense.

WR - I can see that one would mark this area as worse - Even though the WR corps is now much bigger, faster, and stronger than last year's group, Its also iunproven and more injury prone than the 2 main contributors we lost (Welker/Lloyd) - No question there is a higher upside here, but also no question, there are a lot of questions about the group that will only be answered when they get on the field.

RB - worse? Ridley and Vareen are just now coming into their primes. Woodhead has been replaced by a RB who has an even better pedigree in Washington, and Blount could be the big back we lacked last year. (though for the record, I am not a fan of that trade). Don't tell me that just the loss of Danny Woodhead dropped your opinion of the RB group to worse. I loved the kid too, but both Vareen and Washington could actually be better.

OL - worse???????!!!! - this is the one which really made me post, because it makes absolutely NO sense. How could the offensive line NOT be considered better.

LT - Solder is now going to enter the 2nd year at LT. I expect him to be better.

LG - Mankins is healthier now than he has been the last two years. I expect him to be better.

C- Wendell, like Solder is going into the 2nd year as a starter, so while I don't expect him to make a physical improvement, there is no doubt that the year's experience will help.

RG - I'm hoping it will be Cannon, who is bigger stronger, and more athletic that Connolly, but even if it isn't Connolly is a solid NFL starter. We certainly don't lose anything there.

RT- Like Mankins, Volmer is going into this season healthier than he's been the last 2 years, So why wouldn't I expect better play from this position.

Depth - McDonnald, and Connolly/Cannon provide great depth for the interior OL given all have had successful starting experience. The addition of Stivec gives a proven veteran OT that we didn't have last season, as well as a more experience Cannon if he's not the starter.

C'MON MAN - you really want us to believe that merely losing Thomas makes the OL worse? Even you don't really believe that. Admit it, MG, you just did that to help make your greater point that the offense is going to be worse this season......

....and I'm sure we will argue that one in another thread.

General rule of thumb ken, young players can't and won't improve. You're never allowed to feel positive about the prospect of youth improvement when supporting a Boston team. On the flip side, they may all regress and the Patriots will only be a 10 win team. The horror.

 

[Joker]

General rule of thumb ken, young players can't and won't improve. You're never allowed to feel positive about the prospect of youth improvement when supporting a Boston team. On the flip side, they may all regress and the Patriots will only be a 10 win team. The horror.

you forgot, the Pats were just lucky when ANY of their drafted players pan out.

 

[ausbacker]

you forgot, the Pats were just lucky when ANY of their drafted players pan out.

It's probably because Bill Belichick can't draft and doesn't understand the needs of his team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Better. Welker and Lloyd are the only players of any significance that they lost, and there's a real chance that Amendola will replace most of his production. On the other side of the equation, the defense should see some improvement with Jones, Hightower, Dennard and T. Wilson all entering year 2, and with Talib and McCourty having their first full offseasons at their positions with the Patriots. If Collins and/or Armstead can contribute at all, then that's just gravy, and the same goes to a lesser extent for Harmon and Ryan. And who knows, it's theoretically even possible that Dowling might get and stay healthy.

On offense, I still think that Lloyd might be back. If not, a healthier year from any of Hernandez, Gronk, or Vereen should mark a significant improvement. Bottom line is that a healthy Gronk/Hernandez combo should more than offset the downgrade from Welker to Amendola. I'm actually more concerned about what's going on at outside receiver, which is why I'm glad that the Pats drafted Hobson, since he was someone who I really wanted them to get. He's talented enough to produce right away, IMO. Granted, in this offense that probably means being the #4 option at best as a rookie, but on physical talent alone, if he or Boyce can learn the offense well enough to get on the field, they'll command the over-the-top safety attention that nobody's commanded here since Moss left. Admittedly, it seems like we're saying that ever year--first about Ochocinco, then about Lloyd, and now about the rookies--but they're trying to plug the whole and eventually they'll get it right.

Fundamentally, this question hinges more than anyone would care to admit on answering "do you think the Patriots will be more or less injured than last year?" Gronk, Vollmer, Hernandez, Vereen, Talib and Dennard are all vital players who missed a lot of time and/or playoff time. Fletcher, Dowling and Fanene going down before the season even started left the Pats with holes in their lineup that nobody could really fill. I don't think it's unreasonable to bet that they'll be healthier this year, although you can obviously never bank on that. An injury to Brady or Wilfork and we're looking back to last season as the 'healthy' time.

 

[mgteich]

With Lloyd instead of Jones on the roster, I would agree with your optimistic assessment of the passing game. However, that seems unlikely to happen.

On offense, I still think that Lloyd might be back.

 

[Mac&Barmore FTW]

IF the rookie wide receivers contribute, worse regular season but better in the playoffs. :first:

Very well said, I agree.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

We can do a 12, 13 win season with a healthy gronk, but I have to think the more the rookies play, the more we will be able to do down the road. So maybe this team is ready to make that jump into a dominant playoff team.