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Will Obama let all tax cuts expire at the end of the year ?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by cupofjoe1962, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    I remember when Obama was running for president he only talked about
    raising taxes for only the high income housholds.

    Wildo posted the following link on Taxes under Obama & McCain during
    the election.

    Taxes under Obama and McCain

    I am now hearing (Suprise.. Suprise) that there is talk that President
    Obama is going to let all of the tax cuts expire.

    Of course he will not call this a tax increase..... He will just say that they
    were scheduled to expire.
  2. PatsFanInVa

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    They were scheduled to expire, and they were framed as temporary when this transfer of wealth from us and our children to the rich was initially foisted on us.

    By the way, the total effect of the Bush-era tax cuts -- including some that I don't think will expire, and shouldn't -- has been $2.5 trillion to the deficit.

    http://www.ctj.org/pdf/bushtaxcutsvshealthcare.pdf

    That's 2.5 times the cost of the more aggressive health care bill, House bill.

    It's just another of the reasons that, during good economic times, the debt grew under Bush from $5.7 trillion -- representing the first 200 odd years of America's existence -- to $10.7 trillion. (The U.S. debt currently stands at $12 trillion.)

    When you don't have any money coming in, it's hard to say "now balance the budget." When you're fighting two wars, adding gigantic security apparati to the nation's infrastructure, and giving the money away to the rich, it's impossible.

    That's why the Bush tax cuts and the Bush wars needed from day 1 to be addressed. If the tax cuts are not allowed to expire, bad things will happen, not good things.

    PFnV
  3. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    It is no secret that Obama is on the record as saying.....

    If he does not extend the tax break to the middle class, he will
    be in far more trouble then GHWB for his "read my lips" pledge.

    If people get their checks in January of 2011 & they have a 3% percent
    cut because of a broken promise, You can stick a fork in OBAMA 2012.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  4. PatsFanInVa

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    So you have answered your thread's question.

    No, Obama will not let all tax cuts expire at the end of the year.

    He spoke to this specifically during his SOTU address. You and the other righties should have actually watched it. It would have put you in better position.

    So since the tax cuts that are popular; will encourage recovery; and will alleviate suffering are the ones that go to the middle class, he favor extending them. Since the tax cuts that favor the rich -- the majority of the money spent on the Bush tax cuts -- do none of these things, they will expire.

    I've seen people angry at tax breaks to the rich. I've never seen a mass movement against tax cuts to the middle class.

    Unless you're the first?

    :D Centrist. Moderate. Learn these words.

    PFnV
  5. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    I watched the SOTU and I have never second guessed Obma more
    since watching him at the SOTU. Maybe Obama needs a refresher course
    on the constitution after embarrassing himself by challenging the Supreme
    Court's decision on campaign financing.


    Maybe you should have your facts checked before you mutter more
    lies at your next SOTU Mr President.


    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  6. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    This number is as far as I can tell is pulled out of thin air. The Bush tax cuts ended up being essentially revenue-neutral. By 2000 revenues were already dropping, and did so until 2003. In 2003, when the 2nd major Bush tax cut was enacted, revenues actually increased at a fairly rapid rate. This continued until the burst of the housing/bank bubble in 2007. I've posted links to the budget office numerous times showing the actual dollar values. The addition to the deficit has come almost exclusively from increases in spending outpacing growth.

    Right now revenues are decreasing because of poor economic performance. Do you think resetting the tax rates to higher levels is actually going to remedy that? Of course not! You can gain revenue by increasing taxes when the economy is growing, but at times like this taking more money out of the system is the exact wrong thing to do.
  7. FreeTedWilliams

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    #75 Jersey

    Of course he will.....

    He will raise taxes on all of us schucks who pay them, add this to the giant pile of promises that he has broken...
  8. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Of course he will.....

    He will raise taxes on all of us schmucks who pay them, add this to the giant pile of promises that he has broken...
  9. PatsFanInVa

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    Once again:

    http://www.ctj.org/pdf/bushtaxcutsvshealthcare.pdf

    A little more on the Bush gift to the wealthiest...

    Tax Cuts: Myths and Realities — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

    Check out what people under the top 1% actually see from those tax cuts. Check out what the millionaires got.

    False consciousness a-go-go!

    PFnV
  10. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Yes I looked at the link, but the best I could gather is that they base that number on possible revenue from the higher tax rate without recognizing the fact that the higher rate would have slowed growth and decreased revenues. The logic is simple, drop the tax rate and more growth increases profits and therefore tax revenues.

    The links you cite deal with hypotheticals and use selective, anecdotal evidence. They point out that the 1993 tax hikes increased revenues, but ignore that economic conditions made 1993 a good time to raise tax rates, a strong economy and the start of a bubble that caused people to want to invest no matter what the cap gains rates etc were. Here's a link to another graph showing tax revenues versus spending. You can see that in the last few years the bigger issue is how spending has outpaced growth and revenues collected.

    Federal Spending Is Growing Faster Than Federal Revenue

    Notice the rate of increase in spending from 1975 to 2000, and the increase starting in 2001. Then look at the trend the last 2 years and go ahead and panic.

    Bottom line is that economic performance is going to be THE major determinant of how much tax revenue is brought in, and lower tax rates are more conducive to stimulating growth, especially in unsure economic times, than higher rates.

    edit: One other thing, Obama even admitted as much in his exchange with rep. Ryan today, giving exactly this reasoning for not wanting to change the 2010 budget.

    "And what they will say is that if you either increased taxes or significantly lowered spending when the economy remains somewhat fragile, that that would have a de-stimulative effect and potentially you'd see a lot of folks losing business, more folks potentially losing jobs. That would be a mistake when the economy has not fully taken off."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012902745_pf.html

    Even Obama knows what's going on with this one!
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    Which is why he's not raising taxes on the middle class :)

    The thing about the wealthy is, they're wealthy. If you're taking a bubble bath in dom perignon every morning, it's unlikely you'll have to skip buying that new fridge or for that matter house this year. Conversely, if you would LOVE to go out to lunch once a week but stick with Ramen noodles out of necessity, that $10 tax break WILL get spent.

    PFnV

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