Will Mankins start when he reports?

[reflexblue]

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



Those are the only two instances which Rodak covers. I remember seeing him whiff on about two more blocks throughout the game with my own two eyes. And that was when I could clearly keep an eye on him. That's not even accounting for when I couldn't see him.

Look, I should say that Connolly has done a better job than I expected this season. Easily. However, a Mankins in game shape and playing at game speed would still be the better option between the two. I don't really think that's an argument.

I think thou is getting Picky.

 

[Deus Irae]

Can't resist that invitation

Football Outsiders has run blocking improved and pass blocking falling off:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2009 OFFENSIVE LINES

Cold Hard Football Facts has the line as substantially improved, with a big improvement in running game effectiveness masking a fall off in pass protection:

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: 2010 Offensive Hog Index
Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Final 2009 Offensive Hog Index

It's too bad the much decried ProFootballFocus stats are now behind a pay wall, as they would make for an interesting further detailed comparison.

I would attribute the improvement in the running game to Vollmer over Kaczur, Gronkowski + Crumpler, and a healthy Neal. Connolly has clearly contributed positively especially with his pulling, but I'm not prepared to say he's an improvement over Mankins.

The pass protection fall off I'd attribute to a sophomore slump by Vollmer, continued decline of Koppen, and the pace of growth of coordination of Connolly with Koppen and Light.

I used to use CHFF all the time, but that was before they decided to sell out and start to suck. It went from a daily "must read" to a site to be avoided. F.O. is awesome, though.

F.O. doesn't really have any advantage for 2010 in the running game, save for power. That makes sense, given the health of Neal and the second year for Vollmer (Both strong in that sort of running attack), and it's offset by the stuffed rank. Outside of that, though, the rankings are essentially the same (11/24 in 2010 v. 11/26 in 2009). In other words, there's been a definite dropoff overall, once you factor in the passing game, despite what people are trying to put forth. How much of that is opponents, how much is Connolly, and how much is other factors are worthwhile questions to ask, IMO.

And thanks for the rankings.

 

[Deus Irae]

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



Those are the only two instances which Rodak covers. I remember seeing him whiff on about two more blocks throughout the game with my own two eyes. And that was when I could clearly keep an eye on him. That's not even accounting for when I couldn't see him.

Look, I should say that Connolly has done a better job than I expected this season. Easily. However, a Mankins in game shape and playing at game speed would still be the better option between the two. I don't really think that's an argument.

Both Ngata sacks came on the same basic play:

Ball is snapped
Connolly moves left to help Light
Ngata gets one-on-one v. Koppen and overwhelms him

On one of the sacks, Connolly ends up standing there blocking air, while he does double a player with Light on the other sack. While the Boston media never seems to ask specifics about such breakdowns, it would be nice to know if the problems were based on protection call/Koppen loss, or on Connolly mistakes.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think thou is getting Picky.

I'm not being picky at all. As a Pats fan, I want them to field the most complete, competitive, and best team that they have available to them. I've seen Connolly whiff on some blocks as has Rodak, who has studied more film than anybody else in this forum. On top of that, it's not really debatable that a game-ready Mankins is the better option over Connolly. Therefore, being the fan that I am, I can't see Mankins sitting on the bench for very long after he comes back. Nor do I want to.

 

[Kontradiction]

Both Ngata sacks came on the same basic play:

Ball is snapped
Connolly moves left to help Light
Ngata gets one-on-one v. Koppen and overwhelms him

On one of the sacks, Connolly ends up standing there blocking air, while he does double a player with Light on the other sack. While the Boston media never seems to ask specifics about such breakdowns, it would be nice to know if the problems were based on protection call/Koppen loss, or on Connolly mistakes.

The plays that I was referencing by eye weren't the sacks. They were both running plays early in the game. It's certainly possible that the missed assignments weren't on Connolly. And I'll admit that I haven't studied the game film like Rodak has. However, both stops that occurred seemed to have happened on the part of the man that was lined up over Connolly.

As for Ngata overpowering Koppen, that's something that has been commonplace, particularly this season. That's why I'm really hoping for some new faces on the interior O-Line after the draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

The plays that I was referencing by eye weren't the sacks. They were both running plays early in the game. It's certainly possible that the missed assignments weren't on Connolly. And I'll admit that I haven't studied the game film like Rodak has. However, both stops that occurred seemed to have happened on the part of the man that was lined up over Connolly.

As for Ngata overpowering Koppen, that's something that has been commonplace, particularly this season. That's why I'm really hoping for some new faces on the interior O-Line after the draft.

I hear you. I was just bringing up some other possible examples, depending upon which player was to 'blame'.

 

[Nikolai]

I used to use CHFF all the time, but that was before they decided to sell out and start to suck. It went from a daily "must read" to a site to be avoided. F.O. is awesome, though.

F.O. doesn't really have any advantage for 2010 in the running game, save for power. That makes sense, given the health of Neal and the second year for Vollmer (Both strong in that sort of running attack), and it's offset by the stuffed rank. Outside of that, though, the rankings are essentially the same (11/24 in 2010 v. 11/26 in 2009). In other words, there's been a definite dropoff overall, once you factor in the passing game, despite what people are trying to put forth. How much of that is opponents, how much is Connolly, and how much is other factors are worthwhile questions to ask, IMO.

I guess the question is whether or not there is an increased focus on establishing a running game, and whether or not Mankins can help or hinder that. Whether or not Mankins is in game shape is another. Yet another is whether or not to play Mankins whenever he's ready, when he's likely going to walk rather than let Connolly grow into his role. Whether anyone thinks it's right or wrong, I'm a big believer in line chemistry.

Yes, I know I'm being difficult, but I think these things are at least worth considering.

 

[Deus Irae]

I guess the question is whether or not there is an increased focus on establishing a running game, and whether or not Mankins can help or hinder that. Whether or not Mankins is in game shape is another. Yet another is whether or not to play Mankins whenever he's ready, when he's likely going to walk rather than let Connolly grow into his role. Whether anyone thinks it's right or wrong, I'm a big believer in line chemistry.

Yes, I know I'm being difficult, but I think these things are at least worth considering.

You're raising good questions. The Mankins that comes in isn't going to be the Mankins in peak form last year, at least not from day one, after all. Even if BB decides to make it a completely fair battle, it could well take some time before it's even a real competition.

I'm not buying into the chemistry argument, though, given that Mankins has a lot more time with his linemates than does Connolly.

 

[Captain Cliche]

BB will let him rot on the inactive list every week and if we win the SB, don't give him a ring and then cut his greedy ass

There, fixed it.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i can't see him being in mid season football shape the frist day he comes back so i say no he dose not start the first game but it will not be long befor he is the starter again.


Dan Connolly, has done a nice job and the pats can get by with him at G but Mankins, makes them a better football team he will take the OL from good to great.

 

[DaBruinz]

If Connolly keeps missing blocks like he did last Sunday, I don't see any way that Mankins DOESN'T start eventually when he gets back.

Are you sure that it was Connolly missing blocks? I didn't see him miss them as much as Koppen just getting toasted by Ngata. Also, there is the potential that Koppen called out the wrong blocking assignments and left himself exposed.

People last year blamed Maroney for missing Lewis on the delayed blitz even though Koppen was the one who was supposed to pick up Lewis to begin with. That was Koppen's assignment. Yet Koppen went over to help Mankins, who didn't need help and left Lewis free to come up the middle.. Maroney was over behind Neal/Kaczur where he was supposed to be, though he did his best to try and get back and chip Lewis, to no avail.

 

[DaBruinz]

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



Those are the only two instances which Rodak covers. I remember seeing him whiff on about two more blocks throughout the game with my own two eyes. And that was when I could clearly keep an eye on him. That's not even accounting for when I couldn't see him.

Look, I should say that Connolly has done a better job than I expected this season. Easily. However, a Mankins in game shape and playing at game speed would still be the better option between the two. I don't really think that's an argument.

Kontra - The 1st instance Rodak mentions doesn't apply to Connolly. On that play, the pulling guard is leading the RB. The back-side LB is not his responsibility. That responsibility falls on either Light, Brady, Koppen or one of the TEs. It's a poorly written sentence that puts the blame for a missed assignment inappropriately on Connolly.

As for Rodak " breaking down film", he doesn't. He just says what he thinks he sees. A perfect example is the sentence where he tries to say that Connolly, as the pulling guard, is supposed to have the backside protection. Which isn't the case at all. Also, Rodak uses the television copy. Which means, at best, he's giving us snippets. Breaking down film would be watching the plays and calling out the assignments for each player and what went right and wrong on each play. He's not doing that.

I'd like to know about these other instances you feel that Connolly missed his blocks.

 

[Kasmir]

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



Those are the only two instances which Rodak covers. I remember seeing him whiff on about two more blocks throughout the game with my own two eyes. And that was when I could clearly keep an eye on him. That's not even accounting for when I couldn't see him.

Look, I should say that Connolly has done a better job than I expected this season. Easily. However, a Mankins in game shape and playing at game speed would still be the better option between the two. I don't really think that's an argument.

I'm away from home this week so I've been unable to review the game. But based on my experience with checking up on Rodak's work, I don't trust anything he says, and indeed I've stopped reading his stuff.

 

[jbb9s]

Connolly playing like he has really hurt Mankins in his negotiations. Going into the season, everyone was like "we need to lock in the rock solid pro bowl guard for the next 7 yrs" and now we are all like "spend the money on pass rush and let JAGs do the interior OLine work"..........

 

[Kasmir]

Both Ngata sacks came on the same basic play:

Ball is snapped
Connolly moves left to help Light
Ngata gets one-on-one v. Koppen and overwhelms him

On one of the sacks, Connolly ends up standing there blocking air, while he does double a player with Light on the other sack. While the Boston media never seems to ask specifics about such breakdowns, it would be nice to know if the problems were based on protection call/Koppen loss, or on Connolly mistakes.

Huh? You might as well be questioning why Neal wasn't helping out. Smacks of vendetta to me. If it were Connolly who was embarrassed by Ngata one on one i can't imagine that you would speculate it might somehow be Koppen's fault.

Regrettably I'm not home til the weekend so I can't review this game, but I've reviewed every play of all the past games, usually simulating forward/back replay 3 or 5 times per play (i've had too much time on my hands this season lol). Connolly has played well. In particular he's a superb pulling guard. I can't compare him to Mankins A/B because I don't have last years games and didn't break them down when I did. But Connolly is playing well. Koppen is manifestly the weak link on this years line.

 

[Kasmir]

I used to use CHFF all the time, but that was before they decided to sell out and start to suck. It went from a daily "must read" to a site to be avoided. F.O. is awesome, though.

F.O. doesn't really have any advantage for 2010 in the running game, save for power. That makes sense, given the health of Neal and the second year for Vollmer (Both strong in that sort of running attack), and it's offset by the stuffed rank. Outside of that, though, the rankings are essentially the same (11/24 in 2010 v. 11/26 in 2009). In other words, there's been a definite dropoff overall, once you factor in the passing game, despite what people are trying to put forth. How much of that is opponents, how much is Connolly, and how much is other factors are worthwhile questions to ask, IMO.

And thanks for the rankings.

Adjusted line yards is their running game composite measure and it's up to 4.76 year from 4.39 last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Huh? You might as well be questioning why Neal wasn't helping out. Smacks of vendetta to me. If it were Connolly who was embarrassed by Ngata one on one i can't imagine that you would speculate it might somehow be Koppen's fault.

It has nothing to do with Vendetta. It has to do with what I watched. On the 7 yard sack, the Ravens send 3 players in on the offensive right side. Vollmer, Neal and the RB pick those players up (2 inside on the stunt, and the RB picks up the wide rusher). Connolly, meanwhile, gives a quick bump to the man Light's blocking, and then releases. He ends up watching on his right as Ngata gets past Koppen to that side, and he's blocking air when Ngata sacks Brady

NFL Videos: Ravens defense, sack, 7-yd loss

On the 10 yard sack, you raise a point. Both guard/tackle combos double up on a player, leaving Koppen alone with Ngata. It's possible that it was Neal that erred there, although he's the much more seasoned veteran and should be far less likely to make such a mistake, and Neal was the player facing a player who'd slid up to threaten blitz right in front of him, while Connolly was left uncovered pre-snap.

NFL Videos: Ravens defense, sack, 10-yd loss

Again, though, we won't know what the cause of the breakdown was, because the team's not going to tell us.

Regrettably I'm not home til the weekend so I can't review this game, but I've reviewed every play of all the past games, usually simulating forward/back replay 3 or 5 times per play (i've had too much time on my hands this season lol). Connolly has played well. In particular he's a superb pulling guard. I can't compare him to Mankins A/B because I don't have last years games and didn't break them down when I did. But Connolly is playing well. Koppen is manifestly the weak link on this years line.

Interesting theory.

 

[DarrylS]

He will, like everyone else, have to earn his job back...

 

[Triumph]

I think this is unlikely, but I agree. Koppen has not played well.

He is hurt.

He is wearing some sort of brace over his left arm.

 

[Triumph]

4th Quarter: 2. One of the few times in the game when the Patriots tried to establish the running game with RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis was on their first drive of the fourth quarter. The first run went for a short gain after backside LB Dannell Ellerbe came in unblocked behind pulling LG Dan Connolly.

You cant be serious.

Thats a designed play where Connolly has to pull and block down the line. Thats his job. Typically, another player fills the void that Connolly makes running that play.