Will Ellis Hobbs Overtake Asante Samuel as the Number One Corner?

[signbabybrady]

The question should now be whether Ellis Hobbs is better than

Jason Webster and Lewis Sanders?

No question there. Hobbs is a no question starter on most teams in the NFL and he is certainly the #1 corner on this team.

 

[brdmaverick]

at the time that Ty Law left it didn't really look like Samuel was ready to overtake the role of #1 corner, but he was ready

hopefully the same is true for Hobbs.

 

[Deus Irae]

at the time that Ty Law left it didn't really look like Samuel was ready to overtake the role of #1 corner, but he was ready

hopefully the same is true for Hobbs.

Given that Hobbs was the team's #1 corner for most, if not all, of last season, I don't know why he wouldn't be ready.

 

[mgteich]

Was he? Or was he the #2 performing as the #1?

How do you think that the secondary performed with Law and Samuel at the corners and Hobbs as the nickel? Somehow I think that this would have been better than what we had since Law left.

at the time that Ty Law left it didn't really look like Samuel was ready to overtake the role of #1 corner, but he was ready

hopefully the same is true for Hobbs.

 

[patsox23]

No question there. Hobbs is a no question starter on most teams in the NFL and he is certainly the #1 corner on this team.

Whoa. Yikes. RIGHT NOW he's the #1 corner on the team but if that ends up being true a few months from now, that is a very bad thing. Hobbs is a middle of the road, or worse, #2 CB. The idea that he is a "no question starter on most teams in the NFL" is patently absurd.

 

[signbabybrady]

Whoa. Yikes. RIGHT NOW he's the #1 corner on the team but if that ends up being true a few months from now, that is a very bad thing. Hobbs is a middle of the road, or worse, #2 CB. The idea that he is a "no question starter on most teams in the NFL" is patently absurd.

I know it is a tough thing to do but you can count to 2 right. You see there are two corners who start. So you questioning my saying he is a no question starter on most teams by calling him an average #2 actually supports my point. but hey I guess I am absurd.

 

[jcdavey]

Whoa. Yikes. RIGHT NOW he's the #1 corner on the team but if that ends up being true a few months from now, that is a very bad thing. Hobbs is a middle of the road, or worse, #2 CB. The idea that he is a "no question starter on most teams in the NFL" is patently absurd.

yeah...some of your pats brethren are straight up ******ed if they think hobbs is a good cb

 

[patsox23]

I know it is a tough thing to do but you can count to 2 right. You see there are two corners who start. So you questioning my saying he is a no question starter on most teams by calling him an average #2 actually supports my point. but hey I guess I am absurd.

I would say that Hobbs is a #2 and would maybe start for 1/3 of the teams. MAYBE I'll give you half. Not sure you guys realize how poorly and SOFT he played this season.

 

[patsox23]

I know it is a tough thing to do but you can count to 2 right. You see there are two corners who start. So you questioning my saying he is a no question starter on most teams by calling him an average #2 actually supports my point. but hey I guess I am absurd.

Also, I DIDN'T say he was "an average #2," I said he was "middle of the road or WORSE." Maybe stop lying and your point will get a bit more respect.

 

[signbabybrady]

I would say that Hobbs is a #2 and would maybe start for 1/3 of the teams. MAYBE I'll give you half. Not sure you guys realize how poorly and SOFT he played this season.

Not sure you realize how hurt he was...Should he have gone to IR or sucked it up. Maybe you dont remember his rookie year or how well he played his sophmore year despite the cast.

Also I think the number is prolly more like better than at least 2/3 of the second CBs in the league. Calling me a lyer for saying average is = to middle of the road is a bit of a stretch.

His playing soft last year was a product of the scheme. With the offense playing the way it was it was smart to play a little softer and not give up big plays that would allow a team to comeback quickly.


You also said you would be scared if Hobbs is your #1 going into next season. Well let me ask you who you think will come in and be the #1 ahead of him. I don't think their are free agents better than him out there and I doubt a rookie comes right in and beats him out (possible but I doubt it).

 

[patsox23]

Not sure you realize how hurt he was...Should he have gone to IR or sucked it up. Maybe you dont remember his rookie year or how well he played his sophmore year despite the cast.

Also I think the number is prolly more like better than at least 2/3 of the second CBs in the league. Calling me a lyer for saying average is = to middle of the road is a bit of a stretch.

His playing soft last year was a product of the scheme. With the offense playing the way it was it was smart to play a little softer and not give up big plays that would allow a team to comeback quickly.


You also said you would be scared if Hobbs is your #1 going into next season. Well let me ask you who you think will come in and be the #1 ahead of him. I don't think their are free agents better than him out there and I doubt a rookie comes right in and beats him out (possible but I doubt it).

I think the Patriots will hopefully trade for a better CB than Ellis to man the #1 corner spot. If they don't, it pretty much UNDERLINES the fact that Belichick doesn't value CB play in his defense as much as he does EVERY OTHER POSITION.

Ellis Hobbs had a bad year. Ellis Hobbs is now hurt. This doesn't bode well for taking the GIANT LEAP he would have to to become a legit #1. He's barely a legit #2.

Wake up, fellas. Rooting for the team doesn't mean you have to love every player like he's your mommy.

 

[signbabybrady]

Ellis Hobbs had a bad year. Ellis Hobbs is now hurt. This doesn't bode well for taking the GIANT LEAP he would have to to become a legit #1. He's barely a legit #2.

Nice to see you softening your stance. Hobbs may not be one of the best CBs in the league but he is certainly capable of Starting in this league and as you are now calling him Barely a Legit #2 at least you are giving him the credit he deserves (you don't have to love him like your moma).

As to the injury....This year will be his second year dealing with injuries and if he can't manage to stay healthy than he may not develope any further...but with the offseason I expect him to be back healthy next year and it would not surprise me to see him really take a huge leap and become a true #1. Staying healthy may be all it takes for him to make that leap.

 

[Deus Irae]

Has anyone who routinely posts questions to Reiss asked him how the Patriots graded out their corners? Also, perhaps he could could give us the final passing numbers on the corners as the team had them (he'd given them to us for something like the first 12 weeks).

My expectation is that Hobbs graded out higher than Samuel.

 

[patsox23]

Nice to see you softening your stance. Hobbs may not be one of the best CBs in the league but he is certainly capable of Starting in this league and as you are now calling him Barely a Legit #2 at least you are giving him the credit he deserves.

This is not, even one iota, different from my initial stance. "Barely a legit #2" is not CLOSE to "he'd start on every team in the NFL," as you had it. I think he's barely a legit #2 suggests that he would maybe be a #2 for some teams, but not for many (and a plurality of) others.

 

[signbabybrady]

This is not, even one iota, different from my initial stance. "Barely a legit #2" is not CLOSE to "he'd start on every team in the NFL," as you had it. I think he's barely a legit #2 suggests that he would maybe be a #2 for some teams, but not for many (and a plurality of) others.

Well I think yuo are wrong.

By the way I didn't say start on every team but I said most. There are a handful of teams out there with 2 legit 1s and he may not start there but he would start just about everywhere else. I would say he is a legit #2 and he could possibly be a 1 if he could stay healthy.

 

[BradyManny]

Has anyone who routinely posts questions to Reiss asked him how the Patriots graded out their corners? Also, perhaps he could could give us the final passing numbers on the corners as the team had them (he'd given them to us for something like the first 12 weeks).

My expectation is that Hobbs graded out higher than Samuel.

I was actually planning on writing him and asking just that. I wrote Football Outsiders to find out when they'd have DB metrics out, they said it'd be in their book this summer or fall I think it was.

I remember Holley on EEI was quoting some metrics or numbers - not sure where from - and Felger reluctantly acknowledged (and dismissed them) later that day - the numbers basically showed that Samuel and Hobbs were equally effective this season.

I, for one, have been hard on Hobbs at times this past season b/c I thought at times he struggled in the soft zone. But there are factors I wasn't taking into consideration at the time and will now admit I was wrong to criticize Hobbs - first of which being that Hobbs often spends more time covering the #1 wideout. Take the Super Bowl for example. He helped shut down Burress the entire game except for the play that shall not be mentioned, which he had no real choice but to cut off the slant and hope the blitz got there in time.

As I said in another thread, the mere fact that the coaching staff put Hobbs on Plaxico in that situation, with two injuries, is awfully telling about how they view the abilities of Hobbs and Asante.

My bottom line view of Hobbs - despite his straight-line speed, he doesn't seem to have the same recovery & closing speed Asante has and therefore isn't as naturally gifted in the soft zone they've been playing. But at the same time, despite his lack of size, Hobbs is stronger than Asante, and really seems to be a better man cover. With perhaps a slightly more aggressive approach next season, Hobbs will be more than adequate as as our #1 CB, and might even excel in the situation.

 

[Deus Irae]

I was actually planning on writing him and asking just that. I wrote Football Outsiders to find out when they'd have DB metrics out, they said it'd be in their book this summer or fall I think it was.

I remember Holley on EEI was quoting some metrics or numbers - not sure where from - and Felger reluctantly acknowledged (and dismissed them) later that day - the numbers basically showed that Samuel and Hobbs were equally effective this season.

I, for one, have been hard on Hobbs at times this past season b/c I thought at times he struggled in the soft zone. But there are factors I wasn't taking into consideration at the time and will now admit I was wrong to criticize Hobbs - first of which being that Hobbs often spends more time covering the #1 wideout. Take the Super Bowl for example. He helped shut down Burress the entire game except for the play that shall not be mentioned, which he had no real choice but to cut off the slant and hope the blitz got there in time.

As I said in another thread, the mere fact that the coaching staff put Hobbs on Plaxico in that situation, with two injuries, is awfully telling about how they view the abilities of Hobbs and Asante.

My bottom line view of Hobbs - despite his straight-line speed, he doesn't seem to have the same recovery & closing speed Asante has and therefore isn't as naturally gifted in the soft zone they've been playing. But at the same time, despite his lack of size, Hobbs is stronger than Asante, and really seems to be a better man cover. With perhaps a slightly more aggressive approach next season, Hobbs will be more than adequate as as our #1 CB, and might even excel in the situation.

Reiss had put out the numbers after week 12 or thereabouts, and they showed that Hobbs had been thrown at more, allowed about 2% higher completion rate (meaning about 2-3 more completions), and had surrendered fewer touchdown passes. I suspect that the touchdown gap widened because Samuel took it on the chin a few times down the stretch.

 

[BradyManny]

Reiss had put out the numbers after week 12 or thereabouts, and they showed that Hobbs had been thrown at more, allowed about 2% higher completion rate (meaning about 2-3 more completions), and had surrendered fewer touchdown passes. I suspect that the touchdown gap widened because Samuel took it on the chin a few times down the stretch.

Good info. Reiss has responded to emails before, so I'll send him a Q to see if he has year stats.

 

[signbabybrady]

I was actually planning on writing him and asking just that. I wrote Football Outsiders to find out when they'd have DB metrics out, they said it'd be in their book this summer or fall I think it was.

I remember Holley on EEI was quoting some metrics or numbers - not sure where from - and Felger reluctantly acknowledged (and dismissed them) later that day - the numbers basically showed that Samuel and Hobbs were equally effective this season.

I, for one, have been hard on Hobbs at times this past season b/c I thought at times he struggled in the soft zone. But there are factors I wasn't taking into consideration at the time and will now admit I was wrong to criticize Hobbs - first of which being that Hobbs often spends more time covering the #1 wideout. Take the Super Bowl for example. He helped shut down Burress the entire game except for the play that shall not be mentioned, which he had no real choice but to cut off the slant and hope the blitz got there in time.

As I said in another thread, the mere fact that the coaching staff put Hobbs on Plaxico in that situation, with two injuries, is awfully telling about how they view the abilities of Hobbs and Asante.

My bottom line view of Hobbs - despite his straight-line speed, he doesn't seem to have the same recovery & closing speed Asante has and therefore isn't as naturally gifted in the soft zone they've been playing. But at the same time, despite his lack of size, Hobbs is stronger than Asante, and really seems to be a better man cover. With perhaps a slightly more aggressive approach next season, Hobbs will be more than adequate as as our #1 CB, and might even excel in the situation.

Thanks for posting...this shuold support my argument against patsox. I had heard these numbers before but had no idea where I did so I couldn't use them in the argument. We will see what Patsox response to this will be.

 

[patsox23]

Thanks for posting...this shuold support my argument against patsox. I had heard these numbers before but had no idea where I did so I couldn't use them in the argument. We will see what Patsox response to this will be.

You don't have to wait and "see." I'll tell you what my response is - it is patently ABSURD that ANYONE would assert that Ellis Hobbs performed better at CB last year than Asante Samuel. You are delusional.

Asante had a solid year, an all-pro year, and Ellis Hobbs gave up receptions CONSTANTLY. The eye-test alone - and it's not the only barometer - tells us this.