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Will Economic Crisis Rip America Apart ?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by NEPatriot, Nov 25, 2008.

  1. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    FOXNews.com - Russian Scholar Predicts Economic Crisis Will Rip America Apart - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

    I just hope that that day won't come. It's really scary to think about it.
     
  2. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Although Tune took this as funny, it's natural for any American...or Russian, to be scared right now. I myself have considered what I would do in a worst case scenario such as anarchy. It was killing my spirit to think about it, so I've let it go.

    Russia of all countries shouldn't be contemplating our doom. They are in worse trouble than we are and their political structure is far more fragile.

    However, I do sincerely believe that our gov't knows more about how bad our economy is going to get than they are willing to share with us. They're just letting the news come out little by little and I'm not too optimistic.
     
  4. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    After the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia's congress and its people wanted true democracy, but got Chicago School free market capitalism forced down their throats instead via western insistance and Boris Yeltsin's clamp down. ... Yeltsin even surrounded their Parliament with troops, and soldiers gunned down 500 of their own people who demanded democracy. ... The Clinton Administration advocated it, and while western businesses bilked that nation out of a cool $1 trillion in the mid-90s, their people began to starve.

    It's ironic that such free market, unbridled capitalism is what has led to the imminent ruin of our own great country. Greed has turned out to be mankind's deadliest sin.
     
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I'm sorry for laughing about it, BUT: That Russian "expert" appears to be projecting his own socio-political thought process onto something they still don't understand -- not only our economic system, but how Americans deal with crises, domestic or otherwise. This is a united nation with myriad interdependencies between regions, states, communities, businesses and individuals. His notion that economic-driven anarchy will split the U.S. into regionalized sub-nations is preposterous on its face.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    The world is more fragile than you think Tune. Yes, even our gov't and economic system is extremely fragile. Yes, Americans seem to have an abundance of perseverance, but that would do little good if our own walls came tumbling down.

    If our financial system had crashed, there would have been more than a fair chance of anarchy taking over this country. And the truth is, we came pretty close to a financial sector crash.
     
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    NOBODY finds it odd how invading Afghanistan seems to be the end for budding empires?


    Are we so dumb as to RE-repeat history?


    Its not the economic crisis, its the fear.....


    Who got everything they wanted out of 9-11? Bin Laden did.


    George W. Bush - YOU FAIL!
     
  8. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Don't know who's feeding you these lies but you have it essentially 100% wrong. The Western nations -- USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy, other Europeans -- plus Japan all combined to give the new Russian Federation more than $200 Billion as investment capital to begin a transition from the old Soviet demand economy, based on Kremlin goals for production -- everything was planned from offices in Moscow, nothing was decided on the local level -- to a more market-driven economy, where the people would decide what they wanted in terms of goods and services.

    The only problem was that Yeltsin was a drunkard and he entrusted all this investment capital to those who surrounded him as apparent loyalists, but who in fact turned out to be simply wolves in sheep's clothing. These were former KGB types, who became the core of the Russian "mafia". In the end they siphoned off about 85% of the $200 Billion into off-shore banks.

    The Western countries asked some years after they gave their loans to Yeltsin what was happening with their investments, and Yeltsin had no clue. So the West stopped giving, understandably so.

    ---

    As for this prediction of America's demise: this is old news. The old communists long ago stated that the U.S. would be sub-divided into these six regions, all under Soviet communist control and administration. Divide and conquer. As old as ancient Rome. If America strays from her roots, even the fundamentals behind the Union, there will be problems; if America remains true to the fundamentals, she will overcome.

    //
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  9. shmessy

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  10. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But it DIDN'T crash. And not even the Great Depression tore America apart. You'll have to reach back in history to the Civil War for an example of prospective union fracture. For the nation to break apart, the federal government would have to dissolve and along with it our legal system, etc., etc. I'd see us becoming totalitarian first.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  11. Mogamedogz

    Mogamedogz In the Starting Line-Up

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    #80 Jersey

    Hasn not it ALWAYS been?
     
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Once you say "essentially 100%", you've already compromised your entire rant.

    You don't know the entirety of what you're talking about, in your rosey Moonified slant on recent Russian history.

    Google Anne Williamson's testimony to Congress in 1999. Western elites, in league with "reformist" Russian power circles, played a huge role in bilking the Russian economy. The mafia there was only a function of that process.

    http://www.archive.org/stream/russianmoneylaun00unit/russianmoneylaun00unit_djvu.txt

    And there is no mistake as to who the victims are, i.e., Western, principally US, taxpayers and Russian citizens whose national legacy was stolen only to be squandered and/or invested in Western real estate and equities markets.

    Western assistance, IMF lending, and the targeted division of national assets are what provided Boris Yeltsin the initial wherewithal to purchase his constituency of ex-Komsomol [Communist Youth League] bank chiefs, who were given the freedom and the mechanisms to plunder their own country in tandem with a resurgent and more economically competent criminal class. The new elite learned everything about the confiscation of wealth, but nothing about its creation.

    In describing how one particular looting scheme operated, Williamson testified:

    The CIA has determined that through Nordex, FPI [the International
    Foundation for Privatization and Private Investment] seized the
    export earnings from Russia’s natural resource companies
    — oil, gas,
    platinum, gold, diamonds — and from industrial firms exporting
    items such as steel and aluminum, and then stashed the hefty profits
    in Western bank accounts. And only now, eight years almost to the
    day later, do US taxpayers learn that the ‘eager, young reformers’ to
    whom their resources were sent for the purpose of building a new
    Russia were in league from day one with the exhausted Soviet nomenklatura
    in a scheme to loot Russia’s wealth and park it in the West...31
    Directors stashed profits abroad, withheld employees’ wages, and
    after cash famine set in, used those wages, confiscated profits and state
    subsidies to ‘buy’ the workers’ shares from them. The really good stuff
    — oil companies, metals plants, telecoms — was distributed to essentially
    seven individuals, ‘the oligarchs,’ on insider auctions whose
    results were agreed beforehand. Once effective control was established,
    directors — uncertain themselves of the durability of their
    claim to the newly acquired property — chose to asset strip with
    impunity instead of developing their new holdings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  13. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Does anyone else find it funny that the same poster who attacks anyone who questions Cheney/Rumsfeld's war policy as somehow being "anti-troop", is the same person starting a thread like this spreading Vlad Putin's Foreign Ministry's attempt to undermine the U.S. economy?

    NEPatriot, is it "scary" to you when Ahmedinejad or Chavez goes on a rant that the U.S. population will be eating roots next year?

    You have absolutely zero thought process.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah, OK, then where exactly is all this "Russian wealth" mentioned above today??? In Americans' bank accounts??? Not on your life. The Russian KGB/mafia do NOT allow Russian assets out of their control. Ask Mikhail Kodorovsky, the former owner of Yukos Oil who was summarily arrested and charged with "corruption", losing his entire holdings in Yukos to the gang of whatever in Russia.

    No, as usual, you come up with internet hearsay and rumors from dubious sources. The truth is that once the Soviet imploded those who held the reigns of the inner workings of the empire were not about to let those reigns slip from their control, come hell or high water. It was the only thing they had left, and they were not about to go out and get jobs selling Chinese watches at the local markets for $3 a pop. These guys had gotten used to the high life during the waning days of the Soviet and their next step was to build their 50-room room, 20,000 square foot mansions, replete with solid gold hardware in the bathrooms.

    This isn't your father's KGB today. These guys are now into the gaming tables of Las Vegas, Atlantic City and even the tribal casinos, like Foxwoods and others. They are into drugs, and all the other stuff the old Italian mafias used to do; put a lot of them out of business, as a matter of fact.

    You need to go back to school on this.


    //
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  15. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Ummmm.... that was public record testimony to US Congress by a Wall St. Journal reporter who lived in Moscow for a decade and spoke fluent Russian... Did you even read it? The money (a lot of it) has been Enronned... It's in the saving accounts of western financiers. Wake up.

    Once again, you make up something and run with it... Just stop talking.... You're no expert on Russia; you're routinely wrong.... You're no expert on anything....
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Russian Scholar Hopes Economic Crisis Will Rip America Apart

    I corrected the translation :rolleyes:

    The entire article is bunk. America is dying for sure ( and in moral decline), but not for the reasons this guy is droning on about. Tunescribe is right, the thought that we will split into sub-notions is a joke and all you finger-waggers that remotely even buy into this bunk are equally so. There is some truth to a lot of the things that are being said in here by various posters, the the article in question is a farce.

    Reading through these threads in the PoFo these days and it becomes crystal clear why this little corner off Patsfans has turned to crap. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    "Enroned"???? You think the Russians are going to allow money meant for them to be skimmed off by Western financiers??? Maybe some of it was, but the lions' share of it went into the Caymans and Zurich banks, with Russian names on the secret accounts.

    Read your own report above: yes, the money was "looted and stashed in Western accounts". Where were they going to put it, in the Bank of Moscow????

    "... the targeted division of national assets are what provided Boris Yeltsin the initial wherewithal to purchase his constituency of ex-Komsomol [Communist Youth League] bank chiefs, who were given the freedom and the mechanisms to plunder their own country in tandem with a resurgent and more economically competent criminal class. The new elite learned everything about the confiscation of wealth, but nothing about its creation."

    Bottom line: the people who did 80-90% of the looting were from the Soviet apparchik. Go to Moscow today and you won't be able to keep track of the Mercedes, BMWs, Lexuses, and other high-end rides. The price of a single three-room flat within the Moscow ring goes for $150,000 to $4,000,000, depending on how close to the Kremlin it is. And there are some 700,000 such flats in Moscow alone. Who has the money now to buy those flats?? It ain't Americans living in them, that's for sure.

    //
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  18. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly.

    Who would actually give a podium to this column - -especially knowing who wrote it and why?
     
  19. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    our international standing is slow. Because we own a lot of money to other countries, we don't have any 'leverage' to negotiate any more. Whatever Russian does won't change this fact.

    i don't give a rat at what these idiots have to say about US. I simply post the news because I thought it was interesting to discuss.

    I thought that you didn't like to read my posts?
     
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    :eek:

    OUCH!!


    //
     

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