Will BB FINALLY address the Pass Rush in the 1st rd?

[manxman2601]

I think based on whats happened so far in the draft preparation that theres a real chance they want Courtney Upshaw.

They've been taking a look at more specialist third down type rushers like Ronnell Lewis, Darius Fleming and possibly Kyle Wilber. I wouldn't be surprised if they go this route and draft someone like Dont'A Hightower who would likely be more a run stopping OLB, at least initially, with the versatility to cover inside. Throw in that they've been looking at late round CB's and I can see something like:

1A Mark Barron or a DE (Still/Reyes)

Fixes either of the two biggest positions of need on the defense.

1B Dont'a Hightower (hopefully with a trade back into the higher second)

Excellent ILB backup and a quality run stopping OLB with the ability to rush the passer.

2A Ronnell Lewis

Special teams ace and someone to rush the passer on passing downs

2B WR, trade or best value

3 WR, trade or best value


4 Omar Bolden

Top 50 CB fallen because of season long injury. Has met with the Pats. Ron Brooks is a possibility here too.


I realise that deducing too much from Pats visits doesn't get us too far, but using that limited intelligence, that's not a bad way for the draft to go. the problem with someone like Branch is that if he busts (and he's no guarantee to succeed), there's not much else one can get out of him. At least Hightower/Lewis offer more than pass rush or bust.

 

[captain stone]

He neglected defense last year in the draft. The team was VERY lucky that Anderson and Carter performed as well as they did. Anderson in particular overachieved and had his highest sack total since his rookie season.


Now, we're going into next season once again with a weak OLB line up unless BB addresses it in the draft.


All we have is Ninkovich, who is an average pass rusher at best.

Our 2 best pass rushers from last year are not on the roster anymore. Anderson just signed with Buffalo. Carter is coming off a bad injury and is no spring chicken. Who knows if he ever comes back, and even if he does, he probably won't be as effective as last year.

Then there's Cunningham, who I have no faith in after he basically sat out all of last season.

Trevor Scott is an unknown in our system. Basically a JAG. I doubt he will perform as well as Carter and Anderson did last year. He could be another Burgess for all we know.

I completely, unequivocally, whole-heartedly agree.

Bill should've signed Anderson & Carter (if they were willing - and why wouldn't they have been, what other options did they have?) to 2-year contracts. Now we're in the same spot we were after 2010, except worse: there's no Mark Anderson to sign, and Andre Carter's one year older & one year unhealthier, and unsigned.

So our present sux, and our future is Jermaine Cunntingham & Markell Carter, and I have more hope for Markell than for Jermaine. So unless somebody is released, we are left to consider the likes of Manny Lawson, Matt Roth, Derrick Harvey, Darryl Blackstock, Bobby Carpenter, Brady Poppinga, Jarvis Moss, Jacob Ford, Quentin Groves & Antwan Applewhite.

If Bill could double-up on the RB position last year, then there is no excuse whatsoever for not doubling-up
on the more valuable, more important & more rare position of Pass-Rusher this year.

 

[The Scrizz]

He was repping with the first team unit at DE when the Pats started out at camp. I';d say they wanted to see what he could do for them there in a different system and he didn't pick it up. IMO he would have started had he been able to get it....but he didn't.

If we go back to primarily 3-4 then I expect him to do a good job. He showed flashes in his rookie year and was really coming along at the end of it. Thought he had some promise at the position.

If we stay with this new hybrid style he's going to ahve to start getting it...and FAST.

Why is it shocking that a 2nd year player who spent his whole rookie year learning one D, then had no off-season, then came to camp and was given a completely different system to learn, struggled?

The die was cast on last year's D when Belichick basically went to a 4-3 because he didn't think he had time to get everyone on the same page for the 3-4.

The 2nd year defenders were in worse shape than the rookies, they had to unlearn what they thought they would be asked to do. Interesting that our 2nd year defenders struggled so much.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Why is it shocking that a 2nd year player who spent his whole rookie year learning one D, then had no off-season, then came to camp and was given a completely different system to learn, struggled?

The die was cast on last year's D when Belichick basically went to a 4-3 because he didn't think he had time to get everyone on the same page for the 3-4.

The 2nd year defenders were in worse shape than the rookies, they had to unlearn what they thought they would be asked to do. Interesting that our 2nd year defenders struggled so much.

Aldon Smith, a rookie, came in the same circumstances and succeeded.

Cunninghams college teammate Carlos Dunlap is also in his 2nd year and is doing a LOT better.

Pass rushers tend to develop quickly. Either they have it, or they don't. Cunningham looks like another Shawn Crable more and more.


The bad thing is, we TWO long term OLB's, but we haven't even successfully drafted ONE in a very long time.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Aldon Smith, a rookie, came in the same circumstances and succeeded.

Cunninghams college teammate Carlos Dunlap is also in his 2nd year and is doing a LOT better.

Pass rushers tend to develop quickly. Either they have it, or they don't. Cunningham looks like another Shawn Crable more and more.


The bad thing is, we TWO long term OLB's, but we haven't even successfully drafted ONE in a very long time.

Dunlap can't play 34 OLB. He is a 43LDE. Vast difference.

 

[patsfaninpa]

They've been taking a look at more specialist third down type rushers like Ronnell Lewis, Darius Fleming and possibly Kyle Wilber. I wouldn't be surprised if they go this route and draft someone like Dont'A Hightower who would likely be more a run stopping OLB, at least initially, with the versatility to cover inside. Throw in that they've been looking at late round CB's and I can see something like:

1A Mark Barron or a DE (Still/Reyes)

Fixes either of the two biggest positions of need on the defense.

1B Dont'a Hightower (hopefully with a trade back into the higher second)

Excellent ILB backup and a quality run stopping OLB with the ability to rush the passer.

2A Ronnell Lewis

Special teams ace and someone to rush the passer on passing downs

2B WR, trade or best value

3 WR, trade or best value


4 Omar Bolden

Top 50 CB fallen because of season long injury. Has met with the Pats. Ron Brooks is a possibility here too.


I realise that deducing too much from Pats visits doesn't get us too far, but using that limited intelligence, that's not a bad way for the draft to go. the problem with someone like Branch is that if he busts (and he's no guarantee to succeed), there's not much else one can get out of him. At least Hightower/Lewis offer more than pass rush or bust.

I like the way the mock is going. Still and Barron in the first. McClellin at 48. Maybe, we can get Ronnell Lewis at 62. Or, a guy like Cam Johnson. A little bigger and more solid citizen. Give me Ron Brooks - CB in the 3rd. That would be a pretty good defensive draft. I'd like to improve the return game. A guy like Joe Adams in the 4th and I'm a happy camper.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Aldon Smith, a rookie, came in the same circumstances and succeeded.

Cunninghams college teammate Carlos Dunlap is also in his 2nd year and is doing a LOT better.

Pass rushers tend to develop quickly. Either they have it, or they don't. Cunningham looks like another Shawn Crable more and more.


The bad thing is, we TWO long term OLB's, but we haven't even successfully drafted ONE in a very long time.

Cunningham showed an ability to be another Ninkovich, a jack of all trades. He set the edge and got into the backfield here and there. He wasn't quite Crable who showed the ability to rush the passer in the preseason and then fell off of the face of the earth. He did show some flashes that you never get out of JAGs.

You're right about the pass rushers though. You can tell right away, and Cunningham didn't show the signs of being an animal who will fight until the end. He would either beat the guy off of the bat or be stuffed, and that was that.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Why is it shocking that a 2nd year player who spent his whole rookie year learning one D, then had no off-season, then came to camp and was given a completely different system to learn, struggled?

The die was cast on last year's D when Belichick basically went to a 4-3 because he didn't think he had time to get everyone on the same page for the 3-4.

The 2nd year defenders were in worse shape than the rookies, they had to unlearn what they thought they would be asked to do. Interesting that our 2nd year defenders struggled so much.

Where in my post did I say it was 'shocking'? I didn't.

All I said was the Patriots expected him to pick up the position (a position he played a lot in college IMO) and he failed to. I agreed with the decision to keep him aboard...he was a second rounder so it would have been stupid to give up on him...but I think he has to get it pretty sharpish this year or he's looking at not being a Patriot much longer! This is his make or break season.

 

[patsderoer]

I like the way the mock is going. Still and Barron in the first. McClellin at 48. Maybe, we can get Ronnell Lewis at 62. Or, a guy like Cam Johnson. A little bigger and more solid citizen. Give me Ron Brooks - CB in the 3rd. That would be a pretty good defensive draft. I'd like to improve the return game. A guy like Joe Adams in the 4th and I'm a happy camper.

Devon Still SUCKS. 50% motor, he takes many plays off. He was pushed back and out of plays 9 times 1on1 vs average at best OLs from Illinois. No. 71 Devon Still DT Penn State vs Illinois 2011 - YouTube

Wisconsin OLine destroyed him. (from 2:27 in this vid Still is #71 for Penn State Kevin Zeitler highlights Nebraska and Penn State.wmv - YouTube)
Wisconsin OLine blew him off the ball non-stop.

Patriots defence does not need disappearing DLs.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Cunningham showed an ability to be another Ninkovich, a jack of all trades. He set the edge and got into the backfield here and there. He wasn't quite Crable who showed the ability to rush the passer in the preseason and then fell off of the face of the earth. He did show some flashes that you never get out of JAGs.

You're right about the pass rushers though. You can tell right away, and Cunningham didn't show the signs of being an animal who will fight until the end. He would either beat the guy off of the bat or be stuffed, and that was that.

In my opinion Cunningham lacks explosion at the snap. And because he is Spikes like slow getting off the ball, he is not going to command a double team or cause O lineman to false start.

Whether BB wants to admit it or not, he needs to draft a backup OLB that can play ST and as a situational pass rusher while he develops and learns the position.

However the player BB needs MUST possess two important ingredients that make great pass rushers.

1.) Suddenness. Ability to get accross the tackles face at the snap of the ball. Suddenness causes O linemen to false start or line up improperly.

2.) Motor. We are looking for a player with a nonstop motor. Never takes a play off and never lets up from snap to the last echo of the whistle.

Now players like this will have short comings with run defense and pass coverage, but as situational pass rushers, who cares????????????

Last draft had two guys that fit this mold perfectly. One was Von miller, who BB had no chance to draft. But the other was Sheard who was sitting there at #33 and instead BB took banana boy Dowling.

So what do we have this draft as it relates to the two criteria described above. Well, to be honest, not much.

Irwin excels at #1, incredible explosion, but comes up short on #2.

Branch is above average at #1, but weak on #2.

Curry, who ran a 4.6 in his pro day, is not great on #1, but awesome at #2.

Merciless does not fit either category, he just benefitted from Illinios ultra aggressive scheme.

Bequette is a limited athlete, and while not exceling at #1, he is very good at #2. I would be very tempted to take aflyer on hi in the 4th round, even though he has a 6th round grade, because he played through an injury last season.

 

[plk]

Technically every area could be seen as a 'need' so I don't see the point of listing the guys you listed. In my post I said GLARING needs which none of the guys you listed were as obvious. Pass rush for example has been an obvious need since '08 and we've never taken a DE/OLB with a high pick. Which is why when they were drafted most people are scratching their heads if they're not familiar with BB's style.

I agree. Need is always a factor, but it is never, by itself, the most important factor.

Belichick has said on several occasions, in almost exactly these words, that he will not draft a [pass rusher] just because he needs a [pass rusher] because if the [pass rusher] does not work out the team still needs a [pass rusher].

Where the team's first-round picks are this year may necessitate more gambling than Belichick will engage in with higher first-round picks, but he's going to have to be convinced that it is a good gamble, not just a serious need.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Branch, Mercilus, and Curry are the only prospects in this draft that I could see us adding to the squad. Each has pros and cons, but overall I lean toward Branch because he has the most experience in coverage. When his technique is good, he's very solid against the run; he seems to struggle a bit with consistency, however, and I would love to see him in a pro strength and conditioning program as well as receiving better coaching. He's much better standing up than from a 3-point stance when rushing the passer; he flies upfield when his responsibility is to rush. Often I see him waiting to explode, though, as though his task is to read the QB first. I'm not sure I understand why. I also enjoy listening to some of his post-game interviews. He seems like an intelligent young man.

While his play is a bit of a mixed bag, as an overall prospect he seems like he could fit in well with the Patriots. Andre Branch vs Boston College 2011 - YouTube

None of the prospects in this draft are perfect, but these are the only three whom I see as a potential upgrade over what we have. Mercilus probably gives the most in terms of a situational rusher.

 

[patsderoer]

Bequette is a limited athlete, and while not exceling at #1, he is very good at #2. I would be very tempted to take aflyer on hi in the 4th round, even though he has a 6th round grade, because he played through an injury last season.

LOL limited athlete with a 6.90 cone and a 4.07 short shuttle at great size 6'5" and 274.
Comparing with D Ware 6.83 cone and 4.07 short shuttle, at 6'4" and 262. Yep, D Ware is a limited athlete, just like Bequette.

 

[Marqui]

Branch, Mercilus, and Curry are the only prospects in this draft that I could see us adding to the squad. Each has pros and cons, but overall I lean toward Branch because he has the most experience in coverage. When his technique is good, he's very solid against the run; he seems to struggle a bit with consistency, however, and I would love to see him in a pro strength and conditioning program as well as receiving better coaching. He's much better standing up than from a 3-point stance when rushing the passer; he flies upfield when his responsibility is to rush. Often I see him waiting to explode, though, as though his task is to read the QB first. I'm not sure I understand why. I also enjoy listening to some of his post-game interviews. He seems like an intelligent young man.

While his play is a bit of a mixed bag, as an overall prospect he seems like he could fit in well with the Patriots. Andre Branch vs Boston College 2011 - YouTube

None of the prospects in this draft are perfect, but these are the only three whom I see as a potential upgrade over what we have. Mercilus probably gives the most in terms of a situational rusher.

Whats wrong with Perry and Upshaw?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

LOL limited athlete with a 6.90 cone and a 4.07 short shuttle at great size 6'5" and 274.
Comparing with D Ware 6.83 cone and 4.07 short shuttle, at 6'4" and 262. Yep, D Ware is a limited athlete, just like Bequette.

The tape says Ware has more bend off the edge than Bequette.

The tape says Bequette misses quite a few tackles, while Ware misses very few.

The tape says Bequette reaches full speed in five plus steps and Ware is there in two.

Don;t get me wrong, I'm not against drafting him, although I wish he were in the 265 pound range, if that could increase his sudenness.
We broadcast a few Arkansas games this past season, I know he was playing hurt and that hindered his performance. To what degree is the question BB needs to answer.

 

[NewFeep]

I still cringe and moan everytime I see Clay Matthews planting a QB on sportscenter......

Will BB FINALLY address the Pass Rush in the 1st rd? Seemingly no, if the past is any indicator at all......

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I still cringe and moan everytime I see Clay Matthews planting a QB on sportscenter......

Will BB FINALLY address the Pass Rush in the 1st rd? Seemingly no, if the past is any indicator at all......

Funny, every time I see Clay Matthews planting a QB on SC, I am happy because we got Gronk from that trade.

Gronk> Clay.

 

[NewFeep]

Funny, every time I see Clay Matthews planting a QB on SC, I am happy because we got Gronk from that trade.

Gronk> Clay.

I love Gronk also but, err, alas...... Yep. glad we have Gronk.....

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Funny, every time I see Clay Matthews planting a QB on SC, I am happy because we got Gronk from that trade.

Gronk> Clay.

Who says we could not have had both. BB had a ton of picks to work with that year and he is a master at moving up and down the draft board.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Who says we could not have had both. BB had a ton of picks to work with that year and he is a master at moving up and down the draft board.

By moving to no. 42, we would have had to give up a future 1st.

No thanks.